Thoughts on a 7X57 Rimmed

[SaintPanzer]

I have the opportunity to grab a nice Kiplauf in 7X57 Rimmed. I know the benefits of the 7X57 round, but the rimmed version is about 10% less. Of course, the shorter barrel of the Kiplauf may reduce that a touch as well.

Right now, I'm thinking a great whitetail round. What else sounds feasible? Gams? Ibex? Small for an elk, but maybe a red stag (in Europe, more than enough for Scotland). Smaller plains game?

There's just so little data on the rimmed round available out there on the internets...

 

[spike.t]

Seem to remember odd person using a double in 7x57r on the driven boar shoots I used to do in Hungary...worked well...

 

[Dirtdart]

I have a BRNO combo so chambered but I have yet to take anything with it. Possibly @SFRanger7GP will stop by as he has taken multiple animals with this cartridge.
About the only factory ammo commonly seen in the US are loaded with standard cup/core bullets manufactured by PPU, Sellier & Bellot, and possibly GECO. The good thing is 7x57R brass and quality 7mm bullets are easy to come by.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

I love the 7x57R cartridge and would like to find a Merkel or Chapuis SxS in that cartridge someday. We have killed many whitetail, and feral pigs as well as a few red deer, axis deer and blackbuck.

When I bought our first rifle in 7x57R, (Merkel K1), I bought a case of Hornady ammo. It came loaded with the fragile 162gr SST bullet. At lower 7x57R velocities, it exits at times and other times acts like an explosive varmint bullet. Very inconsistent performance with that bullet but we haven't lost any game. Sometimes I pull the Hornady bullet and put a 150-160gr Nosler on top of the load. I also bought a bunch of Norma ammo with their wonderful 154gr oryx bullet. I have killed several pigs with the S&B and PPU loads.

For reloads, I use 7x57 data. It is an easy cartridge to load for. When it comes to killing power, it is as good as the 7x57mm.

Safe hunting

 

[SaintPanzer]

Thanks... It's a choice between this one and a .308, but this one is a bit less expensive and has a much nicer scope.

The real question (and no one at Merkel has answered my emails yet) is can one still order additional barrels for the K3? I'd love to get one in .22 Hornet for practice, and perhaps a .30-06 when I feel like beating on my shoulder. Oh, and there's always the idea of re-chambering in 7X65R...

 

[SFRanger7GP]

Thanks... It's a choice between this one and a .308, but this one is a bit less expensive and has a much nicer scope.

The real question (and no one at Merkel has answered my emails yet) is can one still order additional barrels for the K3? I'd love to get one in .22 Hornet for practice, and perhaps a .30-06 when I feel like beating on my shoulder. Oh, and there's always the idea of re-chambering in 7X65R...

When I was with TKE one of our factories was less than an hour from (former) Merkel USA. I went there often and bought several firearms. Even they stated their frustration at Merkel Germany’s failure to respond or provide support. When I asked about extra barrels for a K3 or K1, they basically told me “good luck with that”. My K3 is in 30-06. Oddly it has less recoil than some of my other 30-06’s.

Safe shooting

 

[SaintPanzer]

The serious bummer there is the (old) Merkel-USA site is still up, and it still lists K3 Stutzens with scope at a great price. I was hoping they still had some kicking around in stock and called, but no such luck...

 

[SaintPanzer]

When I was with TKE one of our factories was less than an hour from (former) Merkel USA. I went there often and bought several firearms. Even they stated their frustration at Merkel Germany’s failure to respond or provide support. When I asked about extra barrels for a K3 or K1, they basically told me “good luck with that”. My K3 is in 30-06. Oddly it has less recoil than some of my other 30-06’s.

Safe shooting

Just a thought: When I was living in Stuttgart, we used to say that differences in culture led to words in language that couldn't accurately be translated. For example, there's no real English equivalent for the German word "Schadenfreude". Conversely, there is no German equivalent for the English "Customer Service".

 

[jpr9954]

I'd love to see the Uberti Courteney Stalking Rifle done in 7x57R. I remember Tom Leoni said the rifle was only set up for rimmed cartridges when I asked about making it in 7x57/.275 Rigby.

 

[Excessexpress]

I wouldn’t hesitate. It will be fine for anything that doesn’t bite back, it will do Elk nicely and be easier to carry than most.

Bell shot most of his elephants with a rimless equivalent after all…

 

[shark_za]

I would not stress the difference between 7x57 and 7x57R , S&B's 173gr load will flatten anything non dangerous in Africa.
They load the R and non-R to the same spec anyway.
Single shots can have long barrels, they just look short.

 

[SaintPanzer]

Thanks all.

The barrel in this particular case is 20 inches, so there is that.

Every loading manual I touched said to load this at 10% less than the rimless version, and one I found on line actually showed an 8 inch drop at 200 yards when BZOed at 100. Hence my concerns. I note with humor that this thread often appears next to the "use enough gun" thread, and that's why I asked.

I'm still on the bubble between this and one in .308, but you are easing my concerns.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

I believe manuals are cautious with loads for the 7x57R because of older platforms. In my case, the Merkel K1/K3 platforms come in very high pressure cartridges so I feel safe using modern 7x57 Mauser loading data.

Safe shooting.

 

[SaintPanzer]

I believe manuals are cautious with loads for the 7x57R because of older platforms. In my case, the Merkel K1/K3 platforms come in very high pressure cartridges so I feel safe using modern 7x57 Mauser loading data.

Safe shooting.

I guess just go up in .2 grain increments until pressure signs, then back off a tad could work...

 

[SFRanger7GP]

In my case, the Merkel K1/K3 series was made for high pressure cartridges such as 300 win mag, 257 Weatherby, 7 mag and others. So I have no concerns with safety issues using 7x57 Mauser data. However, I don't hotrod any cartridge at the loading bench.

Safe shooting

 

[PerH]

Grab it , plenty of ammo and data around and quite accurate cartridge it is

 

[SaintPanzer]

Yes. To be clear, I am NOT talking about hot-rodding anything.

What I mean is this: Using my Hornady manual, it says to back off for the rimmed round by 10%. Max load on the 175 grain bullets using IMR 4831 is 43 grains of powder yielding 2300 fps. I ignore the velocity, because I can measure that as I develop, and I do NOT push to get velocity. I just want to know what it is.

So If I understand your point correctly, "feel safe using modern 7X57 loading data". That would mean I could load to 43 grains, and not stop at 43-10%, or 38.7 grains.

What I'm proposing is starting at around 37.5, which the book says is a middle range "modern" load, and increasing by .2 grains at a time. Instead of stopping at 38.7, if no signs of pressure, continue, but absolutely stop at 43.

Is this what you mean by "using modern loading data"?

 

[SFRanger7GP]

Yes. To be clear, I am NOT talking about hot-rodding anything.

What I mean is this: Using my Hornady manual, it says to back off for the rimmed round by 10%. Max load on the 175 grain bullets using IMR 4831 is 43 grains of powder yielding 2300 fps. I ignore the velocity, because I can measure that as I develop, and I do NOT push to get velocity. I just want to know what it is.

So If I understand your point correctly, "feel safe using modern 7X57 loading data". That would mean I could load to 43 grains, and not stop at 43-10%, or 38.7 grains.

What I'm proposing is starting at around 37.5, which the book says is a middle range "modern" load, and increasing by .2 grains at a time. Instead of stopping at 38.7, if no signs of pressure, continue, but absolutely stop at 43.

Is this what you mean by "using modern loading data"?

Yes, Sir. That is what I was talking about. With the 175gr bullets I can get just under 2400fps and I am happy with that. I shoot for 2500-2600fps with 150-160gr bullets. The only premium bullet I use is the Nosler Partition. None of the animals hit have disagreed with my loads. If you like, I can send you copies of 7x57R loading info from Handloader magazine. I find it to be a useful. In my experience, the cartridge is very pleasant to shoot and easy to load for.

Do you have pictures of your new rifle that you can share?

Safe shooting

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I guess just go up in .2 grain increments until pressure signs, then back off a tad could work...

@SaintPanzer
You could safely go up one grain at a time in that case. 0.2gn is fine for smaller cases.
Bob