Transitioning To A Blaser R8 - A Two Months / 500 Rounds Review

[TOBY458]

OK...”truth in posting”...as mentioned before in a couple of posts, I suffer from the desire to experiment. Reading posts in the past about Blaser’s and having a friend who owns one in 308, I had to get one even before I could afford it. The opportunity arose when I realized I was not going to be returning to Africa in 2020. Thus I had the funds To purchase one.
I haven’t fired half the rounds through mine that One Day... has, but will be getting there.
In July I ordered an R8 with 223, 6.5 Creedmoor, 30-06 and 375 H&H barrels. As did Pascal the 223 will be used for mostly practice. The 6.5 CM for predators, deer, maybe hogs and as a backup for my granddaughter’s 7mm-08 when I take her out. The 30-06 (I have a passion for the cartridge!) I probably should have gotten a 300 WM or Bee for my PG round in Africa, but I just have so many great loads for the 30-06. It will do 90% of what the magnums will do. (just 50 yards closer).

Field failures don’t worry me because (unless I am backpacking in) I always take a spare rifle. In Africa, the PHes always have spare rifles for hire.

There, I’ve spilled the beans! I really wanted to have a good evaluation of it before I committed to a report, but One day... has done such a complete analysis, so no need for me to say any more. Excellent report sir!

Why have you been keeping this so quiet sir??? We need pictures! What model/configuration did you buy?

 

[Ridgewalker]

Why have you been keeping this so quiet sir??? We need pictures! What model/configuration did you buy?

Toby458, once I get enough load data and targets to have pictures of, I’ll start a post of my own. So far, only 1 factory load has met my requirements. But, I’m a bit picky since I have over 67 years of rifle shooting and 53 years of reloading.
Picky, picky, picky!!! An illness I’m certain!

 

[BeeMaa]

@One Day...
Not feeling like taking the kickstop out at the moment.
I have all the math & physics I need every time I pull the trigger.
But here is the stock, no bolt and no trigger group.
And of course, the 416RM barrel.

 

[One Day...]

@One Day...
...
But here is the stock, no bolt and no trigger group.
And of course, the 416RM barrel.
View attachment 378119
View attachment 378118

Thanks BeeMaa. Turns out you DO have a 16 oz. kickstop

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@One Day...
Not feeling like taking the kickstop out at the moment.
I have all the math & physics I need every time I pull the trigger.
But here is the stock, no bolt and no trigger group.
And of course, the 416RM barrel.
View attachment 378119
View attachment 378118

@BeeMaa
Mate take the frilly nickers off and put the big boy pants on. Throw away the kick stop, get a 505 Gibbs barrel and got shoot some ground hogs prone.
Me thinks the maths involved in that one would take some figuring.
Ha ha ha ha
Bob

 

[One Day...]

The review... Part 5 - adjusting the R8 iron sights...

Based on experience with friends' and clients' rifles, iron sights are more often than not purely decorative on scoped rifles, and rarely sighted.

Well..... I like mine to be sighted...

In a perfect world, mechanical sights would all have clear and repeatable calibrated clicks, like target sights, or at least some reference etchings:

M1 carbine rear sight with both clicks and reference etchings

The R8 has neither:

Blaser R8 front and rear sights. No clicks or etchings...

This helps from a purity of lines perspective, but this complicates the sighting process as one needs to proceed by trial and error. This can be both time, patience, and ammunition consuming...

I am happy to share a few guidelines that will hopefully encourage and help fellow AH members to check and sight their R8 iron sights:

The formula to adjust iron sights is C = M x D ÷ R where
C is the Change of point of Impact in inch
M is the sight Movement in inch
D is the Distance to the target in inch
R is the sight Radius (i.e. the distance between front and rear sight) in inch

The Allen key required to make the adjustments is 1.3 mm.

You will not find this information anywhere in the Blaser documentation, or - to the best of my research - anywhere else on the internet, but I am happy to share based on micrometer measurements and field testing that 1/4 turn on both rear and front R8 sights adjustment screws moves the sight by approximately ~0.1 mm or 0.003937008".

Therefore, a 1/4 turn on the front or rear sight adjustment screws changes the point of impact at 100 yards by: M ~0.003937008 x D 3600 ÷ R 287 mm / 11.2992126" = C ~1.3".

R8 Iron Sights: 1/4 turn = ~1.3" @ 100 yds.

Front sight

Turn the screw in clockwise 1/4 turn = raise sight = lower POI ~1.3" @ 100 yds.

Turn the screw out counter clockwise 1/4 turn = lower sight = raise POI ~1.3" @ 100 yds.

Rear sight

Turn the screw in clockwise on the left side 1/4 turn = move sight left = move POI left ~1.3" @ 100 yds. In order to move the rear sight left, you need to first loosen the screw on the right side, then retighten it after adjustment.

Turn the screw in clockwise on the right side 1/4 turn = move sight right = move POI right ~1.3" @ 100 yds. In order to move the rear sight right, you need to first loosen the screw on the left side, then retighten it after adjustment.

Note: Should you run out of adjustment on the front sight, be advised that Blaser sells a taller rear sight.

 

[Tra3]

Excellent info! I have yet to fiddle with the irons on my .375 barrel. I sighted in two scopes for the .375 barrel: a swaro Z6 2.5-15 and a swaro habicht 1.25-4x. Until I get more experience I’ll follow the advice to stay with a scoped .375 for DG.
But, I still want to get the irons dialed in and this will save significant ammo $$$!

I’m curious, do people prefer to zero irons at 50 or 100 yards?

God willing, my postponed 2020 hippo and PG hunt will happen this July. I will be hunting in Namibia. Has anyone taken three barrels into Namibia? (I know 2 rifles is Ok, but are two R8’s and an extra barrel?)

 

[Newby]

@One Day... Thanks for that. Adjustments are nice and consistent I'm sure. I also like my iron sights to be sighted in, even though I don't use them, and with my eyesight nowadays, probably couldn't use them. I haven't even thought about tackling that part of set up on my R8 yet.

If those measurements relate to your magnum barrels, things would probably get very close to a 1/4 turn for 1" change in POI with a standard length barrel. Very easy to remember.

@Tra3 I zero irons at no less than 100yds, but none of my calibres are pumpkin rollers. I have been surprised over the years at how accurate good crisp irons can be when used by someone who is good with them.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

The review... Part 4 - the R8 mechanical complexity...

There is no arguing, the Blaser R8 bolt carrier and trigger mechanisms are far more mechanically complex than those of a Mauser 98

View attachment 377973
The Blaser R8 bolt carrier and locking mechanism is far more mechanically complex than the Mauser 98 bolt

View attachment 377974
Blaser R8 bolt carrier and locking mechanism. Complex...

And the trigger mechanism is entirely different. Blaser describes it as a "desmodromic trigger mechanism that guarantees that the trigger will function even when iced or heavily soiled."

I knew what this meant because my Ducati Monster 1000 S bike had desmodromic valves. In general terms a desmodromic mechanical system is a system where parts movements are caused by other camming parts. For example, desmodromic valves are classically opened by a cam, but they are NOT closed by a spring. Rather, they are also closed by a cam. Applied to a trigger, this means that the trigger engagement with the sear is not caused by a spring, but by a series of camming parts.

View attachment 377976
Blaser R8 desmodromic trigger compartment

View attachment 377975
Blaser R8 desmodromic trigger mechanism. No spring...

A desmodromic trigger mechanism indeed makes it virtually impossible for ice or gunk to prevent the trigger from engaging the sear, and it dispenses trigger weight adjustment from relying on a spring that will ultimately weaken with age, or can harden with cold temperatures.

Good? Bad? or Indifferent?

A few thoughts come to mind:

Factually, the R8 has a great and very consistent trigger. How much of that is owed to the desmodromic design, I do not know. Conceptually, desmodromic action is indeed more repeatable and more reliable than spring action (hence the use in Ducati race bikes engines), I get that, but I am also on record stating that a well adjusted Timney trigger, or similar, is every bit as good as a R8 trigger. Would the spring on a Timney trigger weaken in 100 or 200 years? likely; could it break in -100 degree temperature? possibly; but I will admit that this does not overly bother me...

Conversely, the R8 locking and triggering mechanisms certainly involve a lot more and a lot smaller parts than those - essentially the same - of a Mauser, Winchester, Remington, Sako, etc. A part of me is tempted to find fault with this, and a part of me is tempted to say "so what?"

This reminds me of the same type of discussion in the long distance Adventure motorcycling world (cross Alaska off road, cross Rocky Mountains off road, cross Western deserts off road, etc.) between proponents of zero electronics bikes supposedly easily fixable on the trail, and proponents of modern bikes with which admittedly the only tool worth carrying is a credit card...

After riding from Kalispell, Montana, to Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, mostly off road, including the famous Dalton Highway prominently featured in the TV series Ice Road Truckers; crossing Death Valley; crisscrossing the Rockies repeatedly; and visiting every National Park and National Monument West of the Mississippi on a BMW 1200 GSA - with my wife on her BMW GS 800 - on which the only thing I could possibly do in the field is patch a puncture or change of lightbulb, I am personally at peace with reliable modern designs and technologies.

Would I prefer a Mauser 98 for a 3 years foot safari across uncharted 1800's Africa? Yes, probably. Am I concerned with the Blaser R8 mechanical complexity for a 3 weeks hunt in modern Africa after testing its reliability weekly for months on end before going? No...



The .257 Wby, .300 Wby and .375 H&H are all using the parent .375 H&H case, so they share the same bolt head. The .233 Rem uses a different bolt head

been testing my R8 in 300wm and 416RM for about 8+years in the field in south africa, never had to visit a gunsmith for any reason.....so far

regards

 

[BeeMaa]

I’m curious, do people prefer to zero irons at 50 or 100 yards?

Zeroed my 300WM, 375H&H and 416RM at 100 yards.
In all honesty, that would be an unlikely shot with my eyes.
Doing it on the range is one thing, in the field it's another.
I just don't practice enough with irons to do it with confidence.
I'm honest about my limitations and will hunt within them.
50 yards and closer is no problem.

 

[One Day...]

...
I’m curious, do people prefer to zero irons at 50 or 100 yards?

In my opinion, it really does not matter

1) Most modern hunting calibers do not have enough drop to show a significantly different point of impact between 50 yards and 100 yards. For example, an iron sighted .375 H&H 300 gr zeroed at 100 yards will technically be +0.2" at 50 yards, and an iron sighted .416 Rigby/Rem 400 gr zeroed at 100 yards will be +0.1" at 50 yards. Who cares!

2) Most backup iron sights shots at game will be taken off hand, free standing, and likely in a high state of excitement. Good luck to anyone out there holding 1/10th MOA accuracy in those conditions!

3) Sad to say, but most of us AH members, even the rare youngsters who still have eyes good enough to use iron sights accurately, do not practice anywhere near enough to shoot anywhere near 1 MOA, never mind 1/10th MOA, with iron sights.


But even if you have excellent eyes and shoot iron sights off hand, free standing at 100 yards every day, and you are an Olympic Rifle 3 Position gold medalist, let's go back to point #1 above

I use 100 yards because this is the distance at which I set up the bench to clock my loads and sight my scopes, and the POI difference is not worth moving the whole shebang to 50 yards where admittedly I would see the target much better

 

[Tra3]

@One Day... This makes perfect sense! I spent last weekend sighting in two muzzleloaders with lower power loads for my young son and his buddy. I had the wrong ballistics concept in mind.

Next questions:
What is your regimen for cleaning the R8 after use?

What do you think about the Blaser carbon bipod? (Have you tested it yet?)

I (we) appreciate the intel!

 

[BeeMaa]

@One Day... This makes perfect sense! I spent last weekend sighting in two muzzleloaders with lower power loads for my young son and his buddy. I had the wrong ballistics concept in mind.

Next questions:
What is your regimen for cleaning the R8 after use?

What do you think about the Blaser carbon bipod? (Have you tested it yet?)

I (we) appreciate the intel!

I treat them like any other rifle I've owned.

When I get them, I do a complete cleaning.
Until nothing is showing on a dry or wet patch.
Hoppe's 9 is my go to, but whatever works for you.

I do not have a break in procedure for rifle barrels.
I'm a hunter, not a 1000 yard precision shooter.
As such, IMO the gains by doing so are minimal for me.
But if a break-in is your way of doing it, it's your rifle...

For larger calibers, I usually shoot 10-15 per range session.
Soak a Hoppe's Viper Bore Snake with CLP and pull through.
I do this about 3 times and put it back in the vault.
All barrels have returned to POA/POI with a "clean" barrel.
Even though they really are not completely clean.

I wash the bore snake every now and then.
Simple Green seems to work well for this.

 

[Philip Glass]

One-day thank you for the excellent job. One thing no one has mentioned is the blaser atzi trigger mechanism. As one day has mentioned the whole trigger/magazine comes out. The atzi trigger is the same but it has a two setting changed by moving a simple switch. A hunting setting that keeps the trigger pull at @1.5 pounds. But by simple moving the switch to the match setting the trigger pull drops to .5 pounds. I do not have this trigger but I will tell you one of the top three things I love about my r8 is the consistent, no creep, crisp, repeatable trigger. I can only imagine what the match trigger is like.

Ditto

 

[Tanks]

...

I’m curious, do people prefer to zero irons at 50 or 100 yards?

...

On my DG rifles with scopes the iron sights are sighted in at 25 yards. For scopes not much difference between 50 and 100 in drop.

 

[Newby]

I really want a 300 H&H (too bad), 375 H&H, and a 404 Jeffery (which is probably not available either). I will probably buy a R8 Pro S in 375 H&H and add a 7x57 (not 300 H&H).


Ridgewalker and Beemaa, you are probably both right about the custom stock cost and complexity. The stocks I see on auction sites are overly expensive, sometimes more than a complete rifle.

@Justbryan Blaser don't list the 7x57 for the R8. They do list the 7x64, which is superior in every way to the x57. The variety of European factory ammo offerings available suggests that the 7x64 is overtaking the 7x57 in popularity.

 

[mark-hunter]

This is true. Practically all european gun makers produce 7x64, and almost no one makes 7x57.
Accordingly, ammuntion availability in shops is much better for 7x64. Those are facts.

 

[mdwest]

This is true. Practically all european gun makers produce 7x64, and almost no one makes 7x57.
Accordingly, ammuntion availability in shops is much better for 7x64. Those are facts.

Learn something new every day....

I would have thought the 7x57 would still be wildly more popular in Europe.. I had no clue the 7x64 had overtaken it in popularity... im not sure why.. but that is very interesting to me...

 

[mark-hunter]

@mdwest
I think that the reason for phasing out 7x57 is marketing.

Undoublty 7x64 has better ballistics then 7x57. Therefor, they cannot compete each other, and especcialy when considering 7mm remington magnum, or still popular 270 winchester, all famous 7mm's very much present at the market.
All 7 mm's, and guess who gets out of production?

On the other hand, 7x57 has an appeal of times gone by, for old fashion hunters, and small conservative elite market.
On that sentiment , who makes rifles in such caliber? Well, bespoke gun makers, such as Rigby (275 Rigby rifles), for elite tradional market, but in the same time, not standard mass production factories.

If you take me as a sample, a relatively conservative european blue collar hunter, and If I want just a budget, working rifle in traditional 7 mm, my personal choice would be by order of preference:

7x64 (beacuse it is true european hunting caliber without military backgorunds, unlike many others)
270 winchester (great hunting caliber, but of american origin, would be my 2nd choice, for me European traditional hunter)
7 mm rem magnum - (not european, but of american origin, and not much unlike 7x64, ballisitics just a tiny bit better then 7x64)
7x57 - traditional caliber, with military origin, arguably inferior in ballistic to other 3.

What would a commercial mass production factory decide, considering such market, which caliber to phase out?
Second market ( a large market) would be USA.
And we know everything about popularity of 8x57, 7x57 cartridges of metric european nomenclature. ie not popular. If average american hunter will choose between 270 win, or 7x57, its not really a choice.

That would be my understanding. I could be wrong, though.

 

[One Day...]

@One Day...
Next questions:
What is your regimen for cleaning the R8 after use?

I am of the school of thought that more barrels are worn out by enthusiastic lapping and cleaning with abrasive compounds, than they are by shooting. I know that we all do not agree on this, but to each our own

Conversely, what I know for a fact, based on military experience, is that a barrel that was coated internally with cosmoline-like heavy oil for storage or shipping can be micro-bulged and loose accuracy with but one shot.

I thoroughly clean, once, any new barrel coming my way before I shoot it, and I invariably get a fair amount of gunk out of it.

After that, I just shoot, always stopping when the barrel starts getting hot to the touch, and well before it is too hot to keep my hand on it.

I have tried over the years various "break in" procedures and have concluded that they are just a waste of my time. Again, I know some will disagree, but this is just my opinion, and again to each our own

In terms of cleaning, I have also evolved toward simplicity. Because I live in Arizona, humidity typically hovers in the 10% to 20% and barrel rust is the least of my concerns. I therefore just pull a BoreSnake 3 times through the barrel after shooting, being careful not to drag the cord against the crown, and call it good. After a few years of experience it seems that after 3 pulls there is no more mini cloud of particles bursting out of the muzzle when the built-in brush pops out.

This, I do religiously, not only every time I shoot, but also every time I take a rifle hunting, especially in Africa, whether I shoot it or not, as an accumulation of dust is no more desirable inside a barrel than it is on binoculars or scope lenses. I expect that abrasive dust driven into a barrel by a bullet will do as much damage as abrasive dust scratching a lens when "cleaning" it with a shirt sleeve Pro photographers use a soft brush. So do I...

Not to mention discovering the occasional twig or bee in the barrel at the end of the day...

If I were living in a place with regular 60% to 80% humidity I would then push a lightly oiled patch through the pipe when storing (and remove the oil before shooting). Hint: oil is incompressible and cannot get out of the way fast enough of a bullet flying at 3,000+ fps...

As to copper deposit, I only care about it when I start seeing a decrease in accuracy, which typically takes at least one or two hundred rounds. Removing copper from a barrel after every dozen shots is generally counter productive - in my opinion - as - in my experience - most barrels shoot better when slightly fouled.

All of this means that until I start getting inexplicable miss at 300 yards on the 6" plate with the .223 Rem barrel I will leave it alone, and that I am likely to not worry about the .257 Wby, .300 Wby and .375 H&H barrels for a year or two at a time...

When I remove copper, I do it chemically, not mechanically. Abrasive compounds do not stop at copper, they can take out the edges of the rifling too. I was always interested in doing it electrically, by reverse electrolysis, but never made the investment into a system when one was for sale (can't find it on the internet anymore), and never got to building one myself.

Admittedly, I am not chasing 1-hole 3 shots groups from my big game hunting rifles, and 1 MOA from the sticks is plenty good enough for me with them.

@One Day...
Next questions:
What do you think about the Blaser carbon bipod? (Have you tested it yet?)

I think that a $650 bipod is pretty dang expensive but well in keeping with Blaser philosophy of milking the clients with accessories

More to the point, since I have precisely zero interest in confusing sniping with hunting, I am not interested in 600 or 800 yards hunting shots. I enjoy shooting 1,000 yards/meters at steel, and I do it regularly with the relevant hardware (.300 Win Mag Mk13 civilian clone https://www.africahunting.com/media/mk-13-rifle.102032/ ), but I do not see any point drilling a Kudu at 800 yards.

This is good shooting, for the few who can do it reliably with one shot from a cold bore, and I think that I could do it most of the time (but not always) under the right circumstances (but not always), just like I ring the 12" plate routinely (but not always) at 800 yards, prone, and after consulting the Kestrel and the Shooter App, but - to me - this is not hunting. Yet again, I know some will disagree, but this is just my opinion, and still to each our own

Besides, most places I hunt have either grass or bush high enough that laying the barrel 12" from the floor generally does not work although I reckon that sitting on the edge of a canyon or the top of a kopje can work...

So, the Blaser carbon bipod is probably a well designed and well manufactured piece of equipment, I expect Blaser would not put their name on it otherwise, and for the price it better be, but I am unlikely to get one...