Travelling with a suppressor

[xbr897]

I've read the number of threads on the forums but I can't find any clear and solid answer on how to take your own suppressor with you from the US to SA for your hunts. My thought was to just have my PH buy one for me to use while I'm there, but then I decided to do some more investigation on my own. I cannot guarantee that this approach will work as I won't be able to try it until my trip in April '23, but all information & regulations I've read up do point to this being the correct path.

The first thing you will want is to submit the ATF form for temporary export of an NFA item You can find it here . For me, turnaround time was about a month. Do note that they will require the full name and an address for the outfitter where you are hunting.

Once you have that, to be completely safe, you will also want to ensure the suppressor is noted on your 4457 form when you get it.

For travelling, be sure to take backup copies of the above 2 documents, and a copy of your suppressor's tax stamp. If your suppressor is on a trust, be sure to have the trust details available as well.

 

[CBH Australia]

Good luck with this. I used one on a hire rifle in SA

It's a big No for Australia if you were wondering but it seems they are fine in New Zealand

 

[rookhawk]

Even if it were 100% legal, would you want to miss your flight and have your weapons (and maybe you) detained as some clerk at the airport or TSA tries to figure it all out?

Being right and not getting to your trip seems worse than avoiding it. Same with thermals, night vision, anything ITAR in those regards. Blackpowder.

I think for far less aggravation you could buy one in RSA and have it at camp waiting.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

the form does not say anything about a suppressor only firearms ie machine gun etc. you are doing what I did and trying to over think it, just put it on your 4457 and place it in your gun case and do not worry about it just have your stamp, and proof you purchased it (sales receipt) and no problem that is what I did this past April

 

[mdwest]

As a guy that deals with ITAR, EAR, DEAR, and exporting controlled materials and information somewhat routinely.. I agree with @rookhawk here..

White you can absolutely legally export (temp or otherwise) a suppressor.. frankly the time, energy, effort, and expense (if you need to hire someone to do all of the paperwork and filings for you rather than risk screwing it up yourself..) exceeds the value IMO...

What it really amounts to is SOME suppressors are going to require more than a 4457.. while others do not (similar to night vision.. early generations are not regulated.. more recent generations are regulated)..

You can buy a decent suppressor in RSA for around $200 (a tiny fraction of the total cost of a hunt in RSA).. and if you return with any frequency to the same location (or even just the same country), it will always be there waiting on your arrival..

There are some additional considerations.. like having to re-zero (POA vs POI will change on suppressed vs non suppressed rifle).. but you're not talking about a huge shift.. it shouldn't take more than 2-4 rounds to get the rifle back inside the X ring..

Ive recently started looking at suppressors pretty hard for a couple of my hunting rifles to use here in the US.. but for traveling abroad, I'll either use a camp rifle (the primary camp rifles with @Bos en Dal SAFARIS are suppressed), or I'll ask the outfitter to pick one up for me with the proper thread pitch if I bring my own rifle (what I have done on all but 1 hunt so far..)... and remember.. a significant part of what Ive done for a living for the last 15+ years has involved sending export controlled items overseas...

 

[mdwest]

the form does not say anything about a suppressor only firearms ie machine gun etc. you are doing what I did and trying to over think it, just put it on your 4457 and place it in your gun case and do not worry about it just have your stamp, and proof you purchased it (sales receipt) and no problem that is what I did this past April

You got away with it.. only because the TSA agent that checked your rifle case didn't know the law/regulation (not uncommon).. or.. your particular suppressor might not be regulated (many are not).. and no one bothered to check and find out whether or not it is subject to export regulation..

This is actually very, very commonly the situation.. most people don't realize that even certain laptops and other electronic devices have the potential to be export regulated.. just because you "own" an item doesnt mean you can legally take it out of the country... even information (to include unclassified information) has the potential to be export regulated.. and ignorance of the law is not a defense (get the wrong TSA agent involved, and things might get a bit sporty for you)..

Also.. understand the TSA and ATF definition of a firearm includes a suppressor..

From the TSA website:
Thank you for contacting the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) Contact Center.

Under Federal law, “firearm” is defined as: any weapon (including a starter gun) that will, is designed to, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; and any destructive device. Any item under these definitions must be declared and transported in accordance with TSA regulations.....

 

[rookhawk]

Not to thread jack, but a lot of people that live in very free States in the US do not understand how some parts of America (or the world) view suppressors 42 States have some means to legally own suppressors but the ones with the big international airports largely do not have a legal means. That indicates if you have to recheck your bags or change gates, you're a State felon walking through an airport like Logan, Ohare, or JFK.

Add to that, the BATF really does not like suppressors. Check out the articles about the BATF putting up shill companies on gunbroker or getting a warrant for sales records for "solvent traps". They've been knocking on doors of people that bought them (not suppressors) demanding they give them up or sign an affidavit that they have destroyed the solvent trap.

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

On one safari my ten year old forgot to remove a spent piece of brass from his bino harness. During a connection in UAE inbound to Zim that was enough for the police to detain us for 3-4 hours. The majority of that time was spent with them arguing about his Swarovski Z6i 1-6x24mm scope trying to decide if the fact that it had an illuminated reticle qualified as ITAR so we could be jailed. Thankfully they were too stupid to look at the binoculars and realize they are rangefinding or there would have been more fodder for them to get their "bust". It all started over a piece of spent brass but it opened the door for them. Your suppressor will open the door and in the end they'll convict you for tearing off your mattress tag.

 

[xbr897]

the form does not say anything about a suppressor only firearms ie machine gun etc. you are doing what I did and trying to over think it, just put it on your 4457 and place it in your gun case and do not worry about it just have your stamp, and proof you purchased it (sales receipt) and no problem that is what I did this past April

You may want to read up more on what is considered an NFA Firearm

WHAT FIREARMS ARE CLASSIFIED AS NFA FIREARMS?​

When the original act was created, NFA weapons (also known as “Title II” or “Class 3” firearms) included machine guns, short-barreled rifles and shotguns, silencers or suppressors, and any other firearm classified as AOW. As the years have passed, there have been some changes as more and more restrictions are added. (See the recent arm brace ruling for one example.)

Today, there are the following categories:

• Machine guns (full or select fire)
• Short-barreled shotguns and rifles (18” for shotguns, 16” for rifles)
• Suppressors
• Destructive devices, such as bombs, grenades, poisonous gas, explosive missiles
• “Any other weapon … or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive.” See the full definition here.

It’s important to note that if you choose to buy an NFA firearm, you will need to prepare to pay an extra tax on top of the price of the item.

 

[xbr897]

Even if it were 100% legal, would you want to miss your flight and have your weapons (and maybe you) detained as some clerk at the airport or TSA tries to figure it all out?

Being right and not getting to your trip seems worse than avoiding it. Same with thermals, night vision, anything ITAR in those regards. Blackpowder.

I think for far less aggravation you could buy one in RSA and have it at camp waiting.

In a way, I think the same thing can be said for taking your own rifle. Definitely easier and less headache to just use a camp rifle. With the post I was trying to help out those that do want to take their own rifle & suppressor.

Agreed there is risk to it. For my upcoming trip I am lucky to have my international flight depart from my home airport, no domestic connections to deal with.

The other point on having one waiting in camp is an option, as my PH has offered to help with that on a return trip. My concern there is that I've seen rifles that just do not like certain suppressors. I'd hate to find out on day of arrival that the rifle won't group well with the purchased suppressor. I also have an odd 9/16x24 threading that in initial web browsing of South African retailers, I've not found available.

Is there any particular brand in South Africa that is roughly comparable, in consistency and repeatability, to Thunderbeast/SilencerCo/Dead Air here in the us? Any websites people could recommend for those looking to research just having one at camp?

 

[Inline6]

I have no dog in this fight.

I can only say this, knowing all the bs you have to do to get a suppressor (not sure what part of, shall not be infringed was over looked with the NFA). The 200.00 Tax stamp and for most people anywhere from 8-15 months of wait time to get your hall pass. I personally would not risk the BS.

As far as repeatability, people have been making form 1 suppressors for a long time with good results. A quality can in SA sounds like it's the same cost as a stamp here. Even if it means 2-4 dB more sound and your rifle goes from .25 moa to .5moa. I'm not seeing a lot of down side here.

And to add to @rookhawk story.

When we landed in DOHA we had to go through the Xray machines again. My boys gave me a solid aluminum bottle opener in the shape of a bullet, it had #1 Dad etched on the side. They pulled me out of line and started in on me. I had the conversation with them as to what it was. I could read their body language, they were not hearing or caring about anything I had to say. So I simply asked what needed to be done, removed said bottle opener and handed it to them. I was very polite during this whole exchange, they were satisfied and we were on our way.

One thing to remember when traveling to other countries, you are not in the USA it is their playground no matter what your opinion is, our rights are not the same when you leave the US. Before I was put into this little predicament I probably would have been the guy that shrugged this off as yeah yeah. When you are getting pulled out of line and you see your family face go blank because no one knows what's going on, the situation gets real.

Just something else to think about.

 

[Clark8907]

I am not sure where all the BS speak is coming from. I have had multiple buddies of mine travel with suppressors to SA with no issues. Some of them even being checked upon return to the US. All they did was show the 4457 and a digital copy of their FORM 4 with tax stamp and approval.

Also, a lot of the bigger silencer shops online outline international travel as one of the main questions and tell you exactly how to do it. Both Silencer Shop and Silencer Central declare all that is mandatory is to file a 4457.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

When I went to fill out my form 4457 a couple months ago I visited with the agent about bringing my suppressor. He asked where I was returning in the US to clear customs. I told him Newark. He told me that he would not recommend bringing the suppressor through New Jersey since they're not legal there. He explained that the form 4457 only proves that you owned it in the states and didn't buy it overseas, its not going to make a suppressor legal in a state that doesn't allow them such as New Jersey or Illinois.

I didn't realize that when you reenter the country at Newark you have to re-check your bags and go through TSA all over again. That's when they have an opportunity to use the New Jersey laws banning suppressors.

I know the TSA people are federal and maybe don't enforce state laws, but that's a chance I'm not taking.

I didn't bring my suppressor and I'm glad I didn't. You're at the mercy of the TSA and I wouldn't risk anything to tick them off. (They can be plenty ticked off if you do it right). Not worth it.

I asked Silencer Central about this and didn't get a clear answer. I asked again and didn't get an answer at all. They're not going to be there for you when TSA looks you over and TSA could care less what anyone has to say.

If I return to Africa I will look into purchasing a suppressor that matches my threads and buy one and leave it there.

 

[mdwest]

I am not sure where all the BS speak is coming from. I have had multiple buddies of mine travel with suppressors to SA with no issues. Some of them even being checked upon return to the US. All they did was show the 4457 and a digital copy of their FORM 4 with tax stamp and approval.

Also, a lot of the bigger silencer shops online outline international travel as one of the main questions and tell you exactly how to do it. Both Silencer Shop and Silencer Central declare all that is mandatory is to file a 4457.

The issue is... you are dealing with the US Federal Government.. and the US Federal Government doesnt exactly talk to itself very well, very clearly, or nearly often enough... and you are potentially dealing with multiple agencies within the US Federal Government...

First consider that the ATF is very clear that it regards a "suppressor" as a "firearm"...

https://www.atf.gov/file/55371/download#:~:text=The NFA defines the term,section 921 of the GCA.

Then consider that US Customs and Immigration is very clear on THEIR expectations and requirements for you "exporting" a firearm (3 or less firearms - get the 4457 filled out, etc..etc..)...

https://www.ice.gov/investigations/astp/faq

and THEN consider that Customs also tells you that taking ANY firearm outside of the US is an "export"... (see same link above under the FAQ section)...

and THEN consider that Customs also tells you that SOME firearms are DDTC (State Department) regulated for export and that you MUST comply with all DDTC regulations (also see same link above).. that ALL permanent exports are controlled by DDTC.. and most temporary exports are controlled by BIS (Dept of Commerce) (same link above)..

Then consider that both the USML (controlled by DDTC) and the BIS license export list (controlled by BIS) have both been in a constant state of revision and change for more than 10 years (started during the Obama administration and still has not reached completion)..

https://www.wilmerhale.com/en/insig...in-export-control-regulation-september-2-2010

Do you really want to be reliant on some TSA agent or Customs Agent actually knowing what the law/requirements/regulatory environment is TODAY upon trying to exit or enter the country.. when a much easier solution is simply to pay $200 to purchase a suppressor in South Africa?

Just because someone else has made the trip easily doesnt mean you will.. nor does it even mean its actually legal...

I just perused both the Silencer Central and Silencer Shop websites.. I couldnt find anything on either site that says its as easy as getting a 4457... in fact they provide a lot more information and speak to the many potential problems..

Silencer Central provides A LOT of helpful information.. but they are clear.. YOU do the due diligence.. YOU know the law both in the US and in the country you are traveling to.. it is not necessarily an easy process..

Traveling Internationally With a Suppressor

In previous blog posts, we’ve covered what it’s like to travel domestically with a suppressor and internationally with guns and ammo, but we haven’t covered international travel with a suppressor. That changes

www.silencercentral.com

Its been stated several times in this thread (and others) that YES.. in most cases you can in fact take a suppressor outside of the US... BUT.. there are potential pitfalls and trip hazards along the way.. and depending on what device you are actually talking about, and where you are specifically going, and where you are initiating your flight from, and where you may have connections.. things have the potential to get complicated and/or expensive along the way...

you can certainly take your chances.. maybe youre right and absolutely nothing happens... or.. maybe youre right, but some dolt of a TSA or Customs agent doesnt think so and you end up getting delayed 2 hours while they figure things out and you miss your flight.. or.. maybe youre wrong and the TSA/Customs guys doesnt know it and nothing happens... or... maybe youre wrong.. and the TSA guy is right.. and you find yourself being told you cannot board... or maybe youre wrong and the customs guy is right and you find yourself in deep excrement upon your return....

Is all of that worth it when you could have just spent $200 on a suppressor in country (pretty immaterial expense when considering the total cost of your typical safari)..


I routinely export "regulated" stuff all over the globe, to include firearms, very large quantities of ammunition, controlled communications systems, among many other things and have done that for the better part of the last 20 years... I have written the export compliance manuals for 3 different US government contracting agencies... I used to work as a direct report for one of the guys that wrote the gold standard for export compliance in the US (i.e. the Nunn Wolfowitz Report https://lweb.cfa.harvard.edu/spp/ec/ecdocs/nunnwolfowitz.pdf ).... I like to think I know at least a tiny bit about this sort of thing... but... at the end of the day, any advice I offer is worth what youve paid for it (nothing)... just consider that others (for example.. the companies that hired me to build their compliance programs and compliance manuals) have paid tens of thousands of dollars for similar advice..

All I'm saying is... if you want to go down the rabbit hole of having to take your personal suppressor out of the country.. by all means.. go for it.. but dont think its actually as simple as getting it added to your 4457 and youre good (not if you actually want to abide by the law in many situations/scenarios)..

For me... I'd rather just pay the $200 and use the suppressor I bought in South Africa.. and then leave it there for the next time I return...

 

[CoElkHunter]

The issue is... you are dealing with the US Federal Government.. and the US Federal Government doesnt exactly talk to itself very well, very clearly, or nearly often enough... and you are potentially dealing with multiple agencies within the US Federal Government...

First consider that the ATF is very clear that it regards a "suppressor" as a "firearm"...

https://www.atf.gov/file/55371/download#:~:text=The NFA defines the term,section 921 of the GCA.

Then consider that US Customs and Immigration is very clear on THEIR expectations and requirements for you "exporting" a firearm (3 or less firearms - get the 4457 filled out, etc..etc..)...

https://www.ice.gov/investigations/astp/faq

and THEN consider that Customs also tells you that taking ANY firearm outside of the US is an "export"... (see same link above under the FAQ section)...

and THEN consider that Customs also tells you that SOME firearms are DDTC (State Department) regulated for export and that you MUST comply with all DDTC regulations (also see same link above).. that ALL permanent exports are controlled by DDTC.. and most temporary exports are controlled by BIS (Dept of Commerce) (same link above)..

Then consider that both the USML (controlled by DDTC) and the BIS license export list (controlled by BIS) have both been in a constant state of revision and change for more than 10 years (started during the Obama administration and still has not reached completion)..

https://www.wilmerhale.com/en/insig...in-export-control-regulation-september-2-2010

Do you really want to be reliant on some TSA agent or Customs Agent actually knowing what the law/requirements/regulatory environment is TODAY upon trying to exit or enter the country.. when a much easier solution is simply to pay $200 to purchase a suppressor in South Africa?

Just because someone else has made the trip easily doesnt mean you will.. nor does it even mean its actually legal...

I just perused both the Silencer Central and Silencer Shop websites.. I couldnt find anything on either site that says its as easy as getting a 4457.. in fact I read just the opposite.. Silencer Central for example provides A LOT of helpful information.. but they are clear.. YOU do the due diligence.. YOU know the law both in the US and in the country you are traveling to..

Traveling Internationally With a Suppressor

In previous blog posts, we’ve covered what it’s like to travel domestically with a suppressor and internationally with guns and ammo, but we haven’t covered international travel with a suppressor. That changes

www.silencercentral.com

Its been stated several times in this thread (and others) that YES.. in most cases you can in fact take a suppressor outside of the US... BUT.. there are potential pitfalls and trip hazards along the way.. and depending on what device you are actually talking about, and where you are specifically going, and where you are initiating your flight from, and where you may have connections.. things have the potential to get complicated and/or expensive along the way...

you can certainly take your chances.. maybe youre right and absolutely nothing happens... or.. maybe youre right, but some dolt of a TSA or Customs agent doesnt think so and you end up getting delayed 2 hours while they figure things out and you miss your flight.. or.. maybe youre wrong and the TSA/Customs guys doesnt know it and nothing happens... or... maybe youre wrong.. and the TSA guy is right.. and you find yourself being told you cannot board... or maybe youre wrong and the customs guy is right and you find yourself in deep excrement upon your return....

Is all of that worth it when you could have just spent $200 on a suppressor in country (pretty immaterial expense when considering the total cost of your typical safari)..


I routinely export "regulated" stuff all over the globe, to include firearms, very large quantities of ammunition, controlled communications systems, among many other things and have done that for the better part of the last 20 years... I have written the export compliance manuals for 3 different US government contracting agencies... I used to work as a direct report for one of the guys that wrote the gold standard for export compliance in the US (i.e. the Nunn Wolfowitz Report https://lweb.cfa.harvard.edu/spp/ec/ecdocs/nunnwolfowitz.pdf )....

All I'm saying is... if you want to go down the rabbit hole of having to take your personal suppressor out of the country.. by all means.. go for it.. but dont think its actually as simple as getting it added to your 4457 and youre good (not if you actually want to abide by the law in many situations/scenarios)..

For me... I'd rather just pay the $200 and use the suppressor I bought in South Africa.. and then leave it there for the next time I return...

I want to buy a $200 suppressor here.

 

[mdwest]

I want to buy a $200 suppressor here.

I only paid $325 for my resonator K when Silencer Central had them on sale a while back

 

[Clark8907]

The issue is... you are dealing with the US Federal Government.. and the US Federal Government doesnt exactly talk to itself very well, very clearly, or nearly often enough... and you are potentially dealing with multiple agencies within the US Federal Government...

First consider that the ATF is very clear that it regards a "suppressor" as a "firearm"...

https://www.atf.gov/file/55371/download#:~:text=The NFA defines the term,section 921 of the GCA.

Then consider that US Customs and Immigration is very clear on THEIR expectations and requirements for you "exporting" a firearm (3 or less firearms - get the 4457 filled out, etc..etc..)...

https://www.ice.gov/investigations/astp/faq

and THEN consider that Customs also tells you that taking ANY firearm outside of the US is an "export"... (see same link above under the FAQ section)...

and THEN consider that Customs also tells you that SOME firearms are DDTC (State Department) regulated for export and that you MUST comply with all DDTC regulations (also see same link above).. that ALL permanent exports are controlled by DDTC.. and most temporary exports are controlled by BIS (Dept of Commerce) (same link above)..

Then consider that both the USML (controlled by DDTC) and the BIS license export list (controlled by BIS) have both been in a constant state of revision and change for more than 10 years (started during the Obama administration and still has not reached completion)..

https://www.wilmerhale.com/en/insig...in-export-control-regulation-september-2-2010

Do you really want to be reliant on some TSA agent or Customs Agent actually knowing what the law/requirements/regulatory environment is TODAY upon trying to exit or

The issue is... you are dealing with the US Federal Government.. and the US Federal Government doesnt exactly talk to itself very well, very clearly, or nearly often enough... and you are potentially dealing with multiple agencies within the US Federal Government...

First consider that the ATF is very clear that it regards a "suppressor" as a "firearm"...

https://www.atf.gov/file/55371/download#:~:text=The NFA defines the term,section 921 of the GCA.

Then consider that US Customs and Immigration is very clear on THEIR expectations and requirements for you "exporting" a firearm (3 or less firearms - get the 4457 filled out, etc..etc..)...

https://www.ice.gov/investigations/astp/faq

and THEN consider that Customs also tells you that taking ANY firearm outside of the US is an "export"... (see same link above under the FAQ section)...

and THEN consider that Customs also tells you that SOME firearms are DDTC (State Department) regulated for export and that you MUST comply with all DDTC regulations (also see same link above).. that ALL permanent exports are controlled by DDTC.. and most temporary exports are controlled by BIS (Dept of Commerce) (same link above)..

Then consider that both the USML (controlled by DDTC) and the BIS license export list (controlled by BIS) have both been in a constant state of revision and change for more than 10 years (started during the Obama administration and still has not reached completion)..

https://www.wilmerhale.com/en/insig...in-export-control-regulation-september-2-2010

Do you really want to be reliant on some TSA agent or Customs Agent actually knowing what the law/requirements/regulatory environment is TODAY upon trying to exit or enter the country.. when a much easier solution is simply to pay $200 to purchase a suppressor in South Africa?

Just because someone else has made the trip easily doesnt mean you will.. nor does it even mean its actually legal...

I just perused both the Silencer Central and Silencer Shop websites.. I couldnt find anything on either site that says its as easy as getting a 4457... in fact they provide a lot more information and speak to the many potential problems..

Silencer Central provides A LOT of helpful information.. but they are clear.. YOU do the due diligence.. YOU know the law both in the US and in the country you are traveling to.. it is not necessarily an easy process..

Traveling Internationally With a Suppressor

In previous blog posts, we’ve covered what it’s like to travel domestically with a suppressor and internationally with guns and ammo, but we haven’t covered international travel with a suppressor. That changes

www.silencercentral.com

Its been stated several times in this thread (and others) that YES.. in most cases you can in fact take a suppressor outside of the US... BUT.. there are potential pitfalls and trip hazards along the way.. and depending on what device you are actually talking about, and where you are specifically going, and where you are initiating your flight from, and where you may have connections.. things have the potential to get complicated and/or expensive along the way...

you can certainly take your chances.. maybe youre right and absolutely nothing happens... or.. maybe youre right, but some dolt of a TSA or Customs agent doesnt think so and you end up getting delayed 2 hours while they figure things out and you miss your flight.. or.. maybe youre wrong and the TSA/Customs guys doesnt know it and nothing happens... or... maybe youre wrong.. and the TSA guy is right.. and you find yourself being told you cannot board... or maybe youre wrong and the customs guy is right and you find yourself in deep excrement upon your return....

Is all of that worth it when you could have just spent $200 on a suppressor in country (pretty immaterial expense when considering the total cost of your typical safari)..


I routinely export "regulated" stuff all over the globe, to include firearms, very large quantities of ammunition, controlled communications systems, among many other things and have done that for the better part of the last 20 years... I have written the export compliance manuals for 3 different US government contracting agencies... I used to work as a direct report for one of the guys that wrote the gold standard for export compliance in the US (i.e. the Nunn Wolfowitz Report https://lweb.cfa.harvard.edu/spp/ec/ecdocs/nunnwolfowitz.pdf ).... I like to think I know at least a tiny bit about this sort of thing... but... at the end of the day, any advice I offer is worth what youve paid for it (nothing)... just consider that others (for example.. the companies that hired me to build their compliance programs and compliance manuals) have paid tens of thousands of dollars for similar advice..

All I'm saying is... if you want to go down the rabbit hole of having to take your personal suppressor out of the country.. by all means.. go for it.. but dont think its actually as simple as getting it added to your 4457 and youre good (not if you actually want to abide by the law in many situations/scenarios)..

For me... I'd rather just pay the $200 and use the suppressor I bought in South Africa.. and then leave it there for the next time I return...

I appreciate the info.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I only paid $325 for my resonator K when Silencer Central had them on sale a while back

$125 too much.

 

[Tra3]

$125 too much.

You will be very happy when you buy one and begin using it. They reduce recoil and noise. Get a short one. Worth the money. We wait a year for hunting season, a suppressor wait is like a Xmas present for 2024.

 

[Inline6]

I want to buy a $200 suppressor here.

Just purchased 5 hard use cans for 299 each. I really like the can (already had one @ 850.00) when the deal popped up I loaded up.

Suppressors are like everything else, technology is paying off and competition is making it more affordable.

Right now the only rifles I'm not worried about suppressing are my 22 and my larger bore (375 and up). It is worth the investment in my eyes and ears.

 

[Inline6]

The issue is... you are dealing with the US Federal Government.. and the US Federal Government doesnt exactly talk to itself very well, very clearly, or nearly often enough... and you are potentially dealing with multiple agencies within the US Federal Government...

First consider that the ATF is very clear that it regards a "suppressor" as a "firearm"...

https://www.atf.gov/file/55371/download#:~:text=The NFA defines the term,section 921 of the GCA.

Then consider that US Customs and Immigration is very clear on THEIR expectations and requirements for you "exporting" a firearm (3 or less firearms - get the 4457 filled out, etc..etc..)...

https://www.ice.gov/investigations/astp/faq

and THEN consider that Customs also tells you that taking ANY firearm outside of the US is an "export"... (see same link above under the FAQ section)...

and THEN consider that Customs also tells you that SOME firearms are DDTC (State Department) regulated for export and that you MUST comply with all DDTC regulations (also see same link above).. that ALL permanent exports are controlled by DDTC.. and most temporary exports are controlled by BIS (Dept of Commerce) (same link above)..

Then consider that both the USML (controlled by DDTC) and the BIS license export list (controlled by BIS) have both been in a constant state of revision and change for more than 10 years (started during the Obama administration and still has not reached completion)..

https://www.wilmerhale.com/en/insig...in-export-control-regulation-september-2-2010

Do you really want to be reliant on some TSA agent or Customs Agent actually knowing what the law/requirements/regulatory environment is TODAY upon trying to exit or enter the country.. when a much easier solution is simply to pay $200 to purchase a suppressor in South Africa?

Just because someone else has made the trip easily doesnt mean you will.. nor does it even mean its actually legal...

I just perused both the Silencer Central and Silencer Shop websites.. I couldnt find anything on either site that says its as easy as getting a 4457... in fact they provide a lot more information and speak to the many potential problems..

Silencer Central provides A LOT of helpful information.. but they are clear.. YOU do the due diligence.. YOU know the law both in the US and in the country you are traveling to.. it is not necessarily an easy process..

Traveling Internationally With a Suppressor

In previous blog posts, we’ve covered what it’s like to travel domestically with a suppressor and internationally with guns and ammo, but we haven’t covered international travel with a suppressor. That changes

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Its been stated several times in this thread (and others) that YES.. in most cases you can in fact take a suppressor outside of the US... BUT.. there are potential pitfalls and trip hazards along the way.. and depending on what device you are actually talking about, and where you are specifically going, and where you are initiating your flight from, and where you may have connections.. things have the potential to get complicated and/or expensive along the way...

you can certainly take your chances.. maybe youre right and absolutely nothing happens... or.. maybe youre right, but some dolt of a TSA or Customs agent doesnt think so and you end up getting delayed 2 hours while they figure things out and you miss your flight.. or.. maybe youre wrong and the TSA/Customs guys doesnt know it and nothing happens... or... maybe youre wrong.. and the TSA guy is right.. and you find yourself being told you cannot board... or maybe youre wrong and the customs guy is right and you find yourself in deep excrement upon your return....

Is all of that worth it when you could have just spent $200 on a suppressor in country (pretty immaterial expense when considering the total cost of your typical safari)..


I routinely export "regulated" stuff all over the globe, to include firearms, very large quantities of ammunition, controlled communications systems, among many other things and have done that for the better part of the last 20 years... I have written the export compliance manuals for 3 different US government contracting agencies... I used to work as a direct report for one of the guys that wrote the gold standard for export compliance in the US (i.e. the Nunn Wolfowitz Report https://lweb.cfa.harvard.edu/spp/ec/ecdocs/nunnwolfowitz.pdf ).... I like to think I know at least a tiny bit about this sort of thing... but... at the end of the day, any advice I offer is worth what youve paid for it (nothing)... just consider that others (for example.. the companies that hired me to build their compliance programs and compliance manuals) have paid tens of thousands of dollars for similar advice..

All I'm saying is... if you want to go down the rabbit hole of having to take your personal suppressor out of the country.. by all means.. go for it.. but dont think its actually as simple as getting it added to your 4457 and youre good (not if you actually want to abide by the law in many situations/scenarios)..

For me... I'd rather just pay the $200 and use the suppressor I bought in South Africa.. and then leave it there for the next time I return...

The 200 dollars is the cost of the tax stamp, that alone should tell people all they need to know. They don't have to risk the cost of the suppressor and the 270+ day wait for one. God forbid if it gets lost in transit. That is not something I want to be scrutinized over, risk being allowed to own any additional NFA items.