TSA Behavior, Destructiveness and Airline Difficulty

[Tanks]

... Vintageguy has to take a day off from work to get a form signed? Really? Look at the time spent on this thread just talking about which locks to put on your gun case! I personally have to work and don't know when I would have the time for this part of the "adventure", let alone the apparently endless hours to rebook cancelled flights and all the Covid testing nonsense. I would really like to hunt In Africa someday, but over the last few months reading about all the "fun" involved in planning a trip to Africa, I'm having second thoughts on the whole thing? I'm sure I'm probably "overthinking" it, but it doesn't feel like it?

We are a pedantic bunch. If you think discussing various locks is daunting look at the threads discussing bags, calibers, watches heck even socks.

Now, the Covid stuff and cancelled flights are not the de rigueur of Africa travel. These are interesting times. In regards to spending endless hours rebooking canceled flights, that is why one uses a company like @TRAVEL EXPRESS to take care of details in regards to travel.

99% of what you need to do for an international travel is the same for an international hunting trip.

Actually in some regards hunting trips are simpler. I travel A LOT lighter when I travel to hunt. I do not need any formal clothes, shoes, belts etc. to pack for Africa, 3 pairs of clothes and a couple of pairs of shoes and I am done. On SCUBA trips I have to pack a wetsuit (at times), BCD with octopus, regulator, dive computer, snorkel, fins, bag etc., Africa is simpler.

 

[JimP]

"Owning and actually using such rifles is as important to me as the actual hunt". +1!

That was a big thing for me on my first safari, I can look at the heads on the wall and remember the shots and everything about the stalk and that I took it with my rifle with hand loads that I loaded.

I thought about not taking my rifle next year just to avoid the hassle of the permit process. But when I thought about it I decided to take my rifle again. The process doesn't really add that much time or hassle if you are organized and can follow instructions. That and getting the SAP's permit pre approved and doing a meet and greet at the airport makes things quite easy.

As has been said, bad things happen but you need to look at all of the hunters who fly over every year and everything goes as smooth as a rough rag through a hole. I won't say smooth as silk just for the reason that there are wait times, perhaps exchange of some rand and a few other things but the process is usually painless.

 

[Happy Myles]

if your first safari, or it is important to have used your own firearms, do so. The various hassles seem daunting but usually work there way out. Remember to keep smiling and be patient. Have all your paperwork in order and follow the rules. Most problems occur because of who is behind the counter rather than an institutions policies.
I have been traveling internationally for more than 55 years And have never lost a firearm. Stolen items include money, binos, cameras, knives, and prescription drugs. Never a firearm. Sometimes they do not show up for a hunt,but never stolen. Decades ago, when I first traveled I walked the tarmac, up the steps and a beautiful, firiendly stewardess met me at the top with a smile took my firearm in a soft case to put in the cabin, escorted me to a comfortable seat and handed me a chilled martini. How times have changed.
There have been a few misadventures. Rifles confiscated in Frankfurt, Germany. Lady behind counter said they were high explosives. Even the police could not talk her out of it. Several months later I picked them up at LAX. Speaking of LAX a lady at Air France (Air Chance) noticed that one of my 8 flight legs did not show travel with firearms. I mentioned obviously the airline had mistakenly missed a leg and that my paperwork was in order. She gasped, stood and exclaimed, “Air France does not make mistakes”, I expected hearing the French national anthem to begin on the loudspeaker. I borrowed a battered old 375 upon arrival in the Central African Republic and had one of my most successful adventures. These are just a couple of many stories. I have never lost a firearm in over 100 international trips.
Traveling international hunters deal with TSA, customs, airlines, and police. It is all part of the adventure. Remember, be patient, be friendly and have your paperwork in order.
t

 

[Philip Glass]

A few things to consider as it relates to some of these experiences. First of all y’all know I am a proponent of TSA locks for the reasons that are obvious from this post.
The ammo box should be in the suitcase therefore there shouldn’t be any damage to it on this side.
The problem we all face is that every airline agent has a different idea of what the rules mean. I’ve seen this many many times.
Finally the bolt should never be taken out of the gun. It is not required and ups the chances of getting lost.
Good discussion.
Philip

 

[jeff]

I've never traveled with guns but have many trips to SA and Namibia with bow cases and luggage and all most every time they have been opened and inspected. I don't use TSA locks anymore because once out of the US other countries are not TSA and they will cut them off.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

My last trip was in 2014. Phoenix to new york to jnb. I had no problems with luggage, locks or and damages. My problem was when I returned to new york. There was 4 hunters in my group, and 3 in another group. All 7 of us was chosen for an additional random screening. Yes. Just the 7 hunters!
They spent 4hrs going through my computer ,phone and every memory card for my camera. I missed my flight to Phoenix and had to spend the night in new york.
Not sure what all that was about? But very annoying and time consuming.
I wouldn't give them my passwords for apps and mail. They was mad. A huge invasion of privacy!
I would also like to add that I have a twic card. Which is a government id, that has a security level for getting into ports and us bases. With a thorough background check, no reason for that waste of time.

I’m curious about this post. Wouldn’t going through your computer and phone require a warrant?

 

[Woodcarver]

We are a pedantic bunch. If you think discussing various locks is daunting look at the threads discussing bags, calibers, watches heck even socks.

Now, the Covid stuff and cancelled flights are not the de rigueur of Africa travel. These are interesting times. In regards to spending endless hours rebooking canceled flights, that is why one uses a company like @TRAVEL EXPRESS to take care of details in regards to travel.

99% of what you need to do for an international travel is the same for an international hunting trip.

Actually in some regards hunting trips are simpler. I travel A LOT lighter when I travel to hunt. I do not need any formal clothes, shoes, belts etc. to pack for Africa, 3 pairs of clothes and a couple of pairs of shoes and I am done. On SCUBA trips I have to pack a wetsuit (at times), BCD with octopus, regulator, dive computer, snorkel, fins, bag etc., Africa is simpler.

Funny you mention dive gear. I've not flown internationally with a firearm (yet), but fly with scuba equipment every year, except 2020. Never had a problem with a firearm, but I have had my carry on bags hand searched every trip but one, because of how regulators and computers show up on the x-ray. Had to wait for a supervisor once, as the tsa "help" didn't know what "scuba" meant. Even the supervisor gave him an odd look after clearing my bag.
Last trip I weighed the non-scuba stuff packed for myself-5 pounds out of the 49.8lbs in the checked bag. I think my spare hunting clothes will weigh more than the spare clothes I take on a dive trip.

 

[Tanks]

I’m curious about this post. Wouldn’t going through your computer and phone require a warrant?

Not at ports of entry by CBP. Journalists that have been doing investigative reporting have been targeted in the past as well.

 

[norfolk shooter]

The only thing reading this thread does for me planning my first safari is to cause me to seriously question whether it is worth it to take my rifle or not. I’ve already decided not to take two as I originally planned. Looks like traveling with a rifle just adds a whole lot of stress to the trip. A neighbor of mine years ago bought a new rifle just for his safari and spent a year developing loads and practicing with it to have it show up in time to fly back with him.
I had a Highland stag hunt planned for Scotland which got flushed with COVID and I had already decided to rent an estate rifle for that because of hassle.
I recently went to get my 4457 form signed and stamped which required a day off from work and the woman who did it was rude. You’d thought I’d asked her to get a bucket and bail out the septic tank rather than sign her name.
Getting just me and my carry on there looks better all the time.

When it come to bringing firearms into the UK go with the estate rifle option.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Funny you mention dive gear. I've not flown internationally with a firearm (yet), but fly with scuba equipment every year, except 2020. Never had a problem with a firearm, but I have had my carry on bags hand searched every trip but one, because of how regulators and computers show up on the x-ray. Had to wait for a supervisor once, as the tsa "help" didn't know what "scuba" meant. Even the supervisor gave him an odd look after clearing my bag.
Last trip I weighed the non-scuba stuff packed for myself-5 pounds out of the 49.8lbs in the checked bag. I think my spare hunting clothes will weigh more than the spare clothes I take on a dive trip.

Maybe if/when I decide to go to Africa hunting, I'll take scuba gear and rent a rifle? Ha! Ha!

 

[CoElkHunter]

if your first safari, or it is important to have used your own firearms, do so. The various hassles seem daunting but usually work there way out. Remember to keep smiling and be patient. Have all your paperwork in order and follow the rules. Most problems occur because of who is behind the counter rather than an institutions policies.
I have been traveling internationally for more than 55 years And have never lost a firearm. Stolen items include money, binos, cameras, knives, and prescription drugs. Never a firearm. Sometimes they do not show up for a hunt,but never stolen. Decades ago, when I first traveled I walked the tarmac, up the steps and a beautiful, firiendly stewardess met me at the top with a smile took my firearm in a soft case to put in the cabin, escorted me to a comfortable seat and handed me a chilled martini. How times have changed.
There have been a few misadventures. Rifles confiscated in Frankfurt, Germany. Lady behind counter said they were high explosives. Even the police could not talk her out of it. Several months later I picked them up at LAX. Speaking of LAX a lady at Air France (Air Chance) noticed that one of my 8 flight legs did not show travel with firearms. I mentioned obviously the airline had mistakenly missed a leg and that my paperwork was in order. She gasped, stood and exclaimed, “Air France does not make mistakes”, I expected hearing the French national anthem to begin on the loudspeaker. I borrowed a battered old 375 upon arrival in the Central African Republic and had one of my most successful adventures. These are just a couple of many stories. I have never lost a firearm in over 100 international trips.
Traveling international hunters deal with TSA, customs, airlines, and police. It is all part of the adventure. Remember, be patient, be friendly and have your paperwork in order.
t

That's my dream of flying to Africa. Walk on the tarmac to the plane, hand my rifle in a soft case to a beautiful stewardess after stumbling up the steps, She escorts me to my lounge chair sized seat and hands me a chilled Budweiser and one of Capstick's books, "Preferring Death in the Long Grass over The Flight to Africa". All in anticipation of a fairly short flight and my Big 5 hunt in Kenya. Delta? Ha! Ha! Ha!

 

[Ike85123]

I’m curious about this post. Wouldn’t going through your computer and phone require a warrant?

Nope. You are not required to give them passwords and such. But upon reentry, they have the right to go through everything you own.

 

[BGdino]

This is increasingly where I'm headed. As much as I love my rifles, traveling with them is becoming an enormous hassle. It feels like "quitting" to stop traveling with them but I'm headed on vacation after all - why would I add stress when the goal is to remove it?

Hey Goose Cracker,

I understand where you are at right now…..however here’s how I see YOUR dilemma.

I too had a trip canceled by COVID this month. I too will be going to Africa next year now instead . I too will be taking two of my favorite rifles with me. Now I read all these stings too, especially all the ones with pics of busted cases, cut locks etc.

But….and I mean a big BUT, I have dreamed of this hunt my whole life. I am a hunter who wants to pass down my guns to my kids and remind them that Daddy shot his African animals with this one…

I reload, I hunt deer on the east coast, I’ve flown in the past with my favorite Win 270 to Montana for Muley, Wyoming for Antelope and I’m not going to give in to “THEM”. I have read all the other hunters, from Roosevelt to Boddington and he (the later) still travels with his fav guns.

If you love being a hunter, if you love and live for shooting, then I will not let anyone take that away from me. I say F$&k Them..period. I will not let my rights, my passion, my dreams be messed with. I look at it this way, when I go next year with both my guns…all legal, in a double pelican, all locked up correctly, with extra locks and pull ties inside…. I am saying to them “F U Idiot” this is my vacation, my trip, and my passion and you Ahole will not take that from me. I will smile and kill them with kindness too.

In the end, if my guns are lost, busted, etc. I’ll use my outfitters but I not gonna stop taking my guns with me because of some idiot. My only solace is that that a-hole may get hit by a bus the next day after he messes with my guns and that will not be my fault because vengeance is not mine ever. So screw them and just wing it. I agree there are hundreds that have flown with no problems, a few who have but I am gonna make sure I go…with my guns for…ME! Think about it, would you not do something because of fear of what may happen. Not me, if I fail then I only have to fix me.

I wish you all the best on your trip, whatever you choose to take. Your comments actually reinforced my position on this topic.

Best to you and your family!
BGdino

 

[Newboomer]

Times sure have changed. Once in the 60s I flew from Anchorage to LAX on leave with my loaded 357 Blackhawk in my duffle bag between my feet. Try that now and see what happens.
On all my safaris I go with RiflePermits or Mr X and a meet and greet. He meets me at the gate when I step off the plane and handles everything til I board my next flight. I had a tight connection in JNB on my last trip and one of Mr X's people led me through the line ahead of everyone else to make my flight.

I've not had any problems with rifles, yet, on any trip. The usual TSA check at airports and taking my ammo case out of my checked bag for domestic RSA flights. Even at JFK I haven't had any unusual attitude problems from the cops. I've never had a lock cut or case damaged so far and I use Sesame combo locks on all my cases.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

Nope. You are not required to give them passwords and such. But upon reentry, they have the right to go through everything you own.

So if I understand you correctly, they can only go through the physical parts of a laptop and phone? I assume most people’s are password locked.

I suppose most memory cards aren’t password protected so they could probably check those too.

 

[Ike85123]

So if I understand you correctly, they can only go through the physical parts of a laptop and phone? I assume most people’s are password locked.

I suppose most memory cards aren’t password protected so they could probably check those too.

I read about all this after it happened. Becouse it didnt seem right to me. But ya, they can look at it all. The nude pics of your girlfriend isnt safe. Lol
I did hear that a blackberry cant be hacked like the rest. Idk? I use a Samsung phone, so its android. And my laptop is dell with Microsoft os.
They got past both my passwords to open my phone and my laptop. They just couldnt get into my email and stuff. Im not tech savvy, but I assume those are harder to crack ?

 

[Ike85123]

So if I understand you correctly, they can only go through the physical parts of a laptop and phone? I assume most people’s are password locked.

I suppose most memory cards aren’t password protected so they could probably check those too.

I do have to add that my wife did piss them off. It wasn't a loss, we was already sure we was gonna miss the connection.
My wife was already testy over the deal. After a couple hours with our electronics, the guy walked over and for my wifes email password. Here is where i about fell out of my chair laughing.
She looked at him and said.
Your an idiot. That's personal, that might contain financial or medical information.
Even if you were a REAL COP i would tell you to fuck off.
So it was 2 more hours. Lol

 

[JimP]

I do have to add that my wife did piss them off. It wasn't a loss, we was already sure we was gonna miss the connection.
My wife was already testy over the deal. After a couple hours with our electronics, the guy walked over and for my wifes email password. Here is where i about fell out of my chair laughing.
She looked at him and said.
Your an idiot. That's personal, that might contain financial or medical information.
Even if you were a REAL COP i would tell you to fuck off.
So it was 2 more hours. Lol

And then the fight started.

 

[Ike85123]

And then the fight started.

The funny thing is how her accent changes when she gets mad. She grew up as a military brat, spent alot of years in England.
She has a small accent. But when mad it comes out bold and proper.
As soon as i heard her say, your an idiot, i knew they done set her off. Haha

 

[Happy Myles]

Again, if important to use your own guns, please take them with you, especially on your first hunt. The odds are highly in favor they will safely arrive. Your patience may be tried but they will get there. As suggested use one of the experienced, hunting travel agents mentioned here previously and make sure you have an airport meet and greet service. If the price makes you gulp, you will find upon arrival you would gladly have paid a whole lot more.
Here is an experience on the bright side. Once upon a time, I arrived in Arusha but, alas, my rifles did not make the flight. I cannot remember the reason but I had a three hour charter that could not be postponed. So headed into the bush sans my rifles. Twos days later a charter buzzed our campi located in either the Rufiji or in the Selous. A little four passenger plane landed on a small dirt strip a mile or so from our tents dropped and off my unharmed rifle case curtesy of the airline Along with a gift wrapped bottle of champagne. Do not plan on that happening these days....

Kindest Regards