Verney Carron going under!

[Kevin375]

From what I heard, VC has familly problems and some grand-aunts, who are still partners, refused any improvement of the factory to not lose any dividends.
But they also made poor choice about some of their products, however I don't speak about "L'atelier Verney-Carron" that was before Paul Demas.
They worked with Turkish for some of their shotguns and it's not a real success. We can add France is a blood sucker about taxes and it is no longer like it used to be about Because of Europe and our clueless politicians, we are killing a lot of knowledges, and thus we are not able to make a lot of things, and our traditions are following the same fate. For example, there is no rifle barrels made in France for big calibers and now, most of them come from Germany (Lothar-Walter and Spain (Bergara).
When the army decided to replace the Famas, Verney-Carron proposed an AR15 type gun, but our politicians didn't even consider them. They prefered to buy H&K and FN Scar guns. They are good for sure, but it's finished about the national preference and that's sad because the VC AR15 works great.

I heard FN Browning might buy them but let's see.

We used to have a long tradition about guns in the country but now, it's finished.

 

[MS 9x56]

The selling argument for the Verney Carron action, which is nothing but the Demas action (Verney Carron purchased Demas in 2004) is to have 3 lugs. On the surface, 3 lugs sounds stronger than 2 lugs, right?

The reality however, is that the Demas/Verney Carron 3 lugs action is not wider nor heavier than any classic 2 lugs action, therefore the question becomes: what is bigger: 2x3 or 3x2? What I mean is that there is no transcendental difference in bearing surfaces or material strength between a 3 lugs action and a 2 lugs action of similar dimensions and mass, it is just that the approximately same material mass is divided in 2 bigger lugs or 3 smaller lugs... In any case, if there is a quantum leap in strength, it failed to be revealed by various tests and it failed to catch wide interest...

Post WWII Verney Carron reached a certain proeminence in France by introducing the Sagittaire, the first mass-produced French over-and-under shotgun, in 1966. And a good shotgun it was. I remember my youth in the French Alps, anyone who could afford one got one. I actually learned shotgunning on one and have fond memories. No amount of snow, ice, sleet, dust, mud, or banging on rocks could prevent a Sagittaire from closing, going bang, downing a brace of chukars, opening, ejecting, and doing it again, and again, and again...

Verney Carron has on and off teetered on the verge of financial solvability for many decades. It was first saved in the 1980's by a large military contract to manufacture parts for the FAMAS French bullpup 5.56 military issue rifle - and a good rifle this too was - and this contract allowed the retooling of the company and the subsidizing of the development of new civilian rifles and shotguns, including a light weight alloy receiver Sagittaire that was quite successful.

There is no question regarding the quality of the rifles and shotguns produced by L'Atelier Verney-Carron Demas Artisan in the last two decades but there have been recurring questions about its economic viability. I guess that the response has been provided, sadly...

The number of lugs is immaterial as bearing surface is what matters.

 

[KJE81]

I have only built two custom guns so I dont have much experience in that department, but in both cases the deposit was more like 20 percent then 50 percent. I assume that 10 k would be 50 percent on a Verney Carron? Or is it more like 30 percent?

 

[DieJager]

I’ll tell you a little secret about myself. I’ve been a cranky old man suffering from chronic depression, ever since Lebeau Courally (Belgium’s last gun maker) closed down their gun making business in 2019 and shifted to manufacturing watches & handbags.

I'll get that. Was not some sort of critique to you.

 

[VertigoBE]

]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]" data-quote="Hunter-Habib" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

I’ll tell you a little secret about myself. I’ve been a cranky old man suffering from chronic depression, ever since Lebeau Courally (Belgium’s last gun maker) closed down their gun making business in [emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]] and shifted to manufacturing watches & handbags.

I’d love to be in the financial position to resuscitate one of our old glory brands. Francotte would be my choice.

Hélas…

 

[pc3]

I have only built two custom guns so I dont have much experience in that department, but in both cases the deposit was more like 20 percent then 50 percent. I assume that 10 k would be 50 percent on a Verney Carron? Or is it more like 30 percent?

The 10k was for a 40k Heym (3 yr wait)....I had considered a VC. The 10k deposit is NOT paid to Heym but rather the Australian agent, now I am sure they are great and have good intentions but I lost a deposit on a lounge suite years ago with a 12 month wait.

Strange Macro conditions at the moment (printing $ during covid, ESG, Climate change and Government wastage starting to come home to roost lots of insolvency's across all industry's) so I have suggested to the agent there needs to be a financial instrument that offers the purchaser some protection....no response as yet

 

[Excessexpress]

Not saying this is the case in this situation, but the Australian firearm industry is plague by parasites who sign up exclusive distributor agencies. Generally they have no capacity, or interest, in servicing the product but use their sole agency to charge a several 100% markup while only importing when they have enough paid orders even if this is years. All of this would collapse if it wasn't so dificult to privately import.

It isn’t that difficult, but you do need to work with a cooperative exporter and have patience.

 

[Altitude sickness]

The 10k was for a 40k Heym (3 yr wait)....I had considered a VC. The 10k deposit is NOT paid to Heym but rather the Australian agent, now I am sure they are great and have good intentions but I lost a deposit on a lounge suite years ago with a 12 month wait.

Strange Macro conditions at the moment (printing $ during covid, ESG, Climate change and Government wastage starting to come home to roost lots of insolvency's across all industry's) so I have suggested to the agent there needs to be a financial instrument that offers the purchaser some protection....no response as yet

Good plan, They should also be paying interest on a 3 year loan. I’m guessing if you saw most of these companies books you would be even more apprehensive in giving them a 3 year loan. Now if that money sat. Untouched until your rifle was at least worth $10K then perhaps.

Unfortunately that is how custom, top end products have been sold for a long time. Carol Shelby, Ferrari, and many other small, barely in business companies used deposits to finish each product rolling out the door.

 

[Tucketed]

 

[Excessexpress]

There is hope yet….

I have long coveted one of those Sagittare smooth/rifled barrel guns.

 

[dogcat1]

RIgby has been bankrupt in the past as well. THeir current owners are solid.
VC will likely reload and be back.