Want To Buy First Double Rifle

[Safariswestcam]

After having just returned from the SCI convention and successfully avoiding the temptation to place an order for the Shikari, although beautiful, I could not justify the extra expense for a rifle that if I am honest with myself, may only see a handful of hunts in the coming years. That being said, I do have a few hunts spanning the next three years that I would love to have a double over my shoulder for. Now is the time to purchase so I can make the necessary tweaks and have enough time to practice and feel comfortable with it so I am curious out of this prestigious group of hunters, who has a rifle that they are ready to part ways with?

I am mainly interested in a Heym, Krieghoff, or Verney but open to others that are chambered 470 or 500. I am talking currently with two individuals that have nice rifles that I am going to make a decision on quickly, but being such a big purchase I want to make sure I find the right fit.

Thanks in advance and looking forward to finding a rifle that is ready to chase buffalo and elephant.

CK

 

[rookhawk]

Heym 470NE is the ideal modern double for a client. People will convince you to get a professional stopper like a 500 or 577, or they'll convince you in another modern gun for savings. I'm not buying either argument, respectively.

If you want to talk about used and vintage, sure, we can debate British doubles and their superior quality in exchange for it shooting a very fussy diet of nearly impossible to find bullets to handload.

 

[deewayne2003]

It’s a shame, you just missed the best .470 Heym seen for sale on the forum in quite some time.

 

[Northern Shooter]

Merkel may be worth considering, generally more affordable than the options you mentioned.

 

[Safariswestcam]

It’s a shame, you just missed the best .470 Heym seen for sale on the forum in quite some time.

Peeked my curiosity...what makes it the BEST?

 

[Safariswestcam]

Merkel may be worth considering, generally more affordable than the options you mentioned.

I appreciate the input and no offense to anyone who has and loves one. I have handled and shouldered lots of Merkel's over the years, just not the rifle for me.

 

[deewayne2003]

Peeked my curiosity...what makes it the BEST?

My apologies, it was a .500ne not a .470

Thread 'Heym 88B 500NE'

Dec 29, 2024

Hate to see this go but I have a to fund a expensive hunt coming up. Heym 88B 500NE. Case colored Action, Elephant head top lever, ejectors, LOP 15 1/4", with upgraded wood. This rifle is in excelled condition, some minors scuff marks. Bluing is perfect on both barrels not single scratch, absolute beautiful case hardening. Please let me know if you have any questions or would like more detailed photos. Will include reloading components if needed. Asking 23K obo...

• Skshyk
• Replies: 47
• Forum: Classifieds

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However I stand by my comments of best in a long time; best being defined as the right mix of form and function and yes I’m a sucker for the elephant head lever….. I’m usually not a fan of color case hardening, but the above rifle is stunning.

You should have seen @rookhawk .470 Heym he sold a while back, and was my ideal Heym.

 

[rookhawk]

Peeked my curiosity...what makes it the BEST?

The Heym is 100% reliable. If you find it not 100%, the best gunsmiths in America can fix it for cheap, whereas alternatives they will not service. When you decide its not for you and sell it, you get most or all of your money back which you cannot say for any other brand.

For metallurgy, any goofy load with a monometal solid and the wrong powder, it "probably" won't blow up. It's a very sturdy action you can do horrible, incorrect things to it and it will still work.

 

[kpoynter]

The Heym is 100% reliable. If you find it not 100%, the best gunsmiths in America can fix it for cheap, whereas alternatives they will not service. When you decide its not for you and sell it, you get most or all of your money back which you cannot say for any other brand.

For metallurgy, any goofy load with a monometal solid and the wrong powder, it "probably" won't blow up. It's a very sturdy action you can do horrible, incorrect things to it and it will still work.

I’m not sure how one can say Heym holds/retains value better than any other brand….
I considered there’s opinions and bought a VC myself
I believe the VC to be a much more “aesthetically pleasing” gun. Not even close actually to me.
These are all quality makers and reliable.
I’m no metallurgical or physical expert but it’s hard for me to imagine there’s more than a 1% difference in durability/reliabilty

 

[yhc]

There are couple of VC 470 NE that are for sale on this forum. If I didn’t have one in 450 NE, I would have seriously considered this one that’s linked below.

VC 470

 

[rookhawk]

I’m not sure how one can say Heym holds/retains value better than any other brand….
I considered there’s opinions and bought a VC myself
I believe the VC to be a much more “aesthetically pleasing” gun. Not even close actually to me.
These are all quality makers and reliable.
I’m no metallurgical or physical expert but it’s hard for me to imagine there’s more than a 1% difference in durability/reliabilty

In the 1980s a best Heym would have cost you $25,000. The same Heym today is $100,000.

I wouldn’t compare a Belgian or French gun to a German Heym myself, but just my opinion. For me, Heym is the only non-British double I’d consider owning, I have one now, I’ve had a few prior.

Aesthetically, a base model 88b is definitely an odd look. I’ll concede that point. A best grade 88B can look as pretty as your pocketbook allows up to their pinless sidelock options. The 89B aesthetics are very good but of course you’re paying more.

Heym has the best reliability reputation for professionals, but it may not be a requirement for a client that isn’t going to use their double harshly and consistently.

P.s. - if the other brands are just as good and hold their value just as well, why does the ugliest and plainest of Heyms sell for at least $17,000 used and may be available for hours to a few weeks, whereas the other brands sit for sale at a similar price for 6 months or longer? Strange there is so much pent up demand.

 

[coreydb]

Double rifles' "econo-lines" are just expensive and go up from there significantly. Swallow hard and pick your poison......I'm in your boat too. I want a double rifle because its "Africana", but in terms of practicality (for annual hunters like me), it just stand the price litmus test. I was at the SCI convention as well and saw all the hand made and custom double rifle makers. I wanted them all but with some at $250,000? I'm still going to buy one, and it will be in the under $20k range. Just take a deep breath, hold it, and make the purchase.

 

[rookhawk]

I’d be remiss if I didn’t recommend to anyone buying a first double to instead consider dropping $10k on a world-class, custom made 375HH on a Mauser action instead. You’ll use it infinitely more, and a $10k bolt gun is a much better gun than a $15k double rifle. When you buy a double rifle you’re either buying a Ferrari or a MacLaren. Both are very expensive and require special feeding, maintenance, and care. One of those two is a piece of trash that isn’t worth repairing after ten years as well. You better know the differences between every double rifle over their useful life even if the prices are similar, just like the differences in long term utility of a super car. If you’re obscenely wealthy and don’t mind throwing things away, get whatever you want even if it proves to be non-functional, unsafe, or always in the shop.

But a best quality 375HH magazine rifle? I never hear anyone with any regrets. I never see people trading out of them on the classifieds trying to get a better one. I never see horror stories of it sitting at the gunsmith’s shop for 4 years awaiting a repair. I never hear woes that they cannot find the bullet they need for the gun to shoot well be it softs or solids.

Disclaimer: I own and love double rifles. I own magazine rifles too. I want everyone to be happy but double rifles cause much more unhappiness than joy because most people buy lousy double rifles by setting unreasonably low budgets.

 

[coreydb]

I’d be remiss if I didn’t recommend to anyone buying a first double to instead consider dropping $10k on a world-class, custom made 375HH on a Mauser action instead. You’ll use it infinitely more, and a $10k bolt gun is a much better gun than a $15k double rifle. When you buy a double rifle you’re either buying a Ferrari or a MacLaren. Both are very expensive and require special feeding, maintenance, and care. One of those two is a piece of trash that isn’t worth repairing after ten years as well. You better know the differences between every double rifle over their useful life even if the prices are similar, just like the differences in long term utility of a super car. If you’re obscenely wealthy and don’t mind throwing things away, get whatever you want even if it proves to be non-functional, unsafe, or always in the shop.

But a best quality 375HH magazine rifle? I never hear anyone with any regrets. I never see people trading out of them on the classifieds trying to get a better one. I never see horror stories of it sitting at the gunsmith’s shop for 4 years awaiting a repair. I never hear woes that they cannot find the bullet they need for the gun to shoot well be it softs or solids.

Disclaimer: I own and love double rifles. I own magazine rifles too. I want everyone to be happy but double rifles cause much more unhappiness than joy because most people buy lousy double rifles by setting unreasonably low budgets.

Amen Brother! If/when I buy a Double, it'll be "just 'cuz"....and I want one. Do I need it? Nope.

 

[rhoward252]

PM sent to OP.

 

[Tanks]

Amen Brother! If/when I buy a Double, it'll be "just 'cuz"....and I want one. Do I need it? Nope.

The problem is that they tend to multiply.

 

[rhoward252]

The problem is that they tend to multiply.

Yes, they do!!

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I’m not sure how one can say Heym holds/retains value better than any other brand….
I considered there’s opinions and bought a VC myself
I believe the VC to be a much more “aesthetically pleasing” gun. Not even close actually to me.
These are all quality makers and reliable.
I’m no metallurgical or physical expert but it’s hard for me to imagine there’s more than a 1% difference in durability/reliabilty

I beg to differ. Just going through all of the posts on AH over the years you will find a lot of problems that people have encountered with even the top end double rifle makers. By comparison there are virtually none aimed at Heym, just one I am aware of in fact. It is not rocket science though, the strength and durability of a double rifle has everything to do with the physics of the design and the metallurgy and nothing to do with the aesthetics.

 

[rookhawk]

A very incomplete list of Professional Hunters that use Heyms:

There are more Professional Hunters carrying HEYM double rifles in Africa today than any other brand.

www.heymusa.com

I have never seen such a list for Chapuis, Verney Caron, Merkel, Searcy, or Sabatti.

Beyond Heyms, the most common doubles I see in Africa are century old Wilkes 470s which says a lot about British longevity as well.

 

[Rare Breed]

The problem is that they tend to multiply.

You are so right, I’ve bought 7 after each time saying I would not buy another, worse than drugs in their addiction