Water buffalo caliber recommendation

[Hunter-Habib]

And ???

I previously shared the incident on another thread. Let me look for it and send you a link.

 

[Sarg]

Cheers thank you !
Oh are those two Grants in your avatar ?

I thought I asked before but it got lost some where ?

 

[grand veneur]

I shot in the nineties three water buffalos near the Taman Negara NP in the district Pahang/Malaysia.

For all three I used the cartridge 9,3x74R and an 293gr FMJ bullet. It went more or less without problems because the shooting distances in the jungle or in the palm oil plantations on the border were very short. Nevertheless, due to the size of the game I would have wished a bigger and stronger cartridge.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I shot in the nineties three water buffalos near the Taman Negara NP in the district Pahang/Malaysia.

For all three I used the cartridge 9,3x74R and an 293gr FMJ bullet. It went more or less without problems because the shooting distances in the jungle or in the palm oil plantations on the border were very short. Nevertheless, due to the size of the game I would have wished a bigger and stronger cartridge.

Do you remember what firearms the local hunters/your guides were using ?

 

[grand veneur]

There were no local guides. Gun ownership in Malaysia is very restrictive. We hunted problem animals on the edge of the jungle and the palm oil plantations.

 

[grand veneur]

 

[avon_7]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say this: I live in Darwin and have shot 20 odd Buffalo. Though bigger than Cape Buffalo they are much less cantankerous. I have only been charged once and that was by a half grown Bull that I had unfortunately wounded with my .416 Ruger.
I regularly use my 30/06 with Barnes TSX 180gn bullets and have no problem dropping large Bulls with it. Locals in Darwin often just use .308's and similar.
My favourite for them is the afore mentioned 30/06 because its perfectly adequate for Buffalo and we also often run into Large Boars.

 

[Sarg]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say this: I live in Darwin and have shot 20 odd Buffalo. Though bigger than Cape Buffalo they are much less cantankerous. I have only been charged once and that was by a half grown Bull that I had unfortunately wounded with my .416 Ruger.
I regularly use my 30/06 with Barnes TSX 180gn bullets and have no problem dropping large Bulls with it. Locals in Darwin often just use .308's and similar.
My favourite for them is the afore mentioned 30/06 because its perfectly adequate for Buffalo and we also often run into Large Boars.

That's cool, how many Cape Buffalo have you hunted & shot ?

I used to shoot for a Buffalo abattoir on the Marraki Plains, started with the 338Win but as we had to Brain shoot our Buffalo went to 30/06 solids & when those ran out we went to 308Win with the shitty 144gr solids.

If you shot enough of them you will find the 30/06 lacking, we shot 40-60 Bulls a day !

 

[BeeMaa]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say this: I live in Darwin and have shot 20 odd Buffalo. Though bigger than Cape Buffalo they are much less cantankerous. I have only been charged once and that was by a half grown Bull that I had unfortunately wounded with my .416 Ruger.
I regularly use my 30/06 with Barnes TSX 180gn bullets and have no problem dropping large Bulls with it. Locals in Darwin often just use .308's and similar.
My favourite for them is the afore mentioned 30/06 because its perfectly adequate for Buffalo and we also often run into Large Boars.

30-06 "perfectly adequate" for Water Buffalo ...maybe for someone with your level of experience, but for a traveling hunter there are several better options. IMO - Starting with .375 caliber/9.3mm and going up from there.

 

[avon_7]

That's cool, how many Cape Buffalo have you hunted & shot ?

I used to shoot for a Buffalo abattoir on the Marraki Plains, started with the 338Win but as we had to Brain shoot our Buffalo went to 30/06 solids & when those ran out we went to 308Win with the shitty 144gr solids.

If you shot enough of them you will find the 30/06 lacking, we shot 40-60 Bulls a day !

 

[avon_7]

I have never hunted Cape Buffalo, it's a hunt that is not my cup of tea. However I have had close encounters with them on the property where i have done Plains Game hunting. My preference is to hunt Duiker and Bush Buck and that kind of thing.

The point i'm trying to make is that if someone is visiting the NT for Buffalo hunt and they already have a 30/06 that they can shoot well, then there is no need to buy a heavier caliber just for one hunt, the 30/06 will get the job done with the right projectiles. A travelling hunter is not looking to shoot 40, just one.

The Water Buffalo doesn't deserve the reputation people give it. If you leave them alone, they will leave you alone. Like virtually all land game animals, if they smell humans, they are off. After all humans are the most dangerous animal on the planet and they know that.
In SE Asia like Thailand and Vietnam they domesticate Water Buffalo and even have them as pets.
Certainly if you corner them or wound them, they are dangerous but otherwise, generally not.
Just my view..

 

[Dr Ray]

I would suggest a 375 especially as you’ll be hunting on foot. 300 grain bullet.
If you have a 416 or can borrow one I’d suggest that with a 400 grain bullet.
Better to be overgunned than undergunned.

 

[geoff rath]

@Dr Ray Banteng are the most likely to charge in my experience, Red Bulls of old & Scrub Bulls are close but just a lot more of them so more to behave badly by numbers, same as bad out comes from Cape Buffalo a lot more of them are hunted & close to people .

I haven't hunted the Forest Buff, Dwarf Buff or Red Buff (next year I hope) but I'm told even more dangerous but again I think could be these are encountered at close range with poor visibility ?

On the Hornet & Scrub Bull, no not that smart but I doubt it bounced of per say but it would of fragmented & not penetrated, being a 40gr varmint bullet if is was of US make the Euro stuff can be a lot harder as I think they shoot Roe Deer with them or as least the Deer I have shot the RWS & Norma killed them with body shots & Winchester/Rem had to be in the brain !

Feedback from old ex-Territorians was our "first peoples"/ aboriginies would shoot buff front knees out, then deliver a coup-de grace behind the ear, using a 22 Hornet with 40 grain solids; their way of getting meat...

 

[crs]

Someone said that the 30-06 is perfectly adequate for water buffalo. Really? It depends where the bullets go.

This big bull was shot several times with a 30-06 in the WRONG places and one time with my .405 WCF and 300 grain NF bullets in the right place -- that .405 shot did it in. The PH was carrying my .405 and finally got the hunter to use it-- the bullet went in between the front legs and all the way to the pelvis..

IMHO, such poor shooting by the client explains many, if not most of the stories of having to shoot an animal several times to put it down.

 

[Dr Ray]

I have never hunted Cape Buffalo, it's a hunt that is not my cup of tea. However I have had close encounters with them on the property where i have done Plains Game hunting. My preference is to hunt Duiker and Bush Buck and that kind of thing.

The point i'm trying to make is that if someone is visiting the NT for Buffalo hunt and they already have a 30/06 that they can shoot well, then there is no need to buy a heavier caliber just for one hunt, the 30/06 will get the job done with the right projectiles. A travelling hunter is not looking to shoot 40, just one.

The Water Buffalo doesn't deserve the reputation people give it. If you leave them alone, they will leave you alone. Like virtually all land game animals, if they smell humans, they are off. After all humans are the most dangerous animal on the planet and they know that.
In SE Asia like Thailand and Vietnam they domesticate Water Buffalo and even have them as pets.
Certainly if you corner them or wound them, they are dangerous but otherwise, generally not.
Just my view..

But Unpredictable

 

[BeeMaa]

@avon_7 - Have you ever heard of "buck fever"? If not I will explain. When a hunter sees the game there is a rush of adrenaline that occurs. The flood of this hormone is instinctual and made to allow the individual to fight or flight in this stressful situation. Although more common with novice hunters even myself after hunting for nearly 50 years can still feel it. The problem this creates is trying to stay calm and controlled with the rifle exactly on target. Experience helps, but most people sometime in their hunting career will have pulled, pushed or plain missed a shot because of it. Myself included.

Using larger caliber is not a substitute for poor marksmanship, but if a shot is off the mark by a couple of inches because of buck fever it could mean the difference between a trophy on the wall and facing a wounded animal that may or may not be recovered.

Your constant recommendation of 30-06 for WB is in direct conflict with every professional guide in AUS. Screaming 30-06 from the hilltops, over and over again will not change that fact.

 

[avon_7]

So using a heavier caliber is how you compensate for your Buck Fever aye? Iv'e heard it all now. I suggest if you are afflicted that badly then perhaps you shouldn't be hunting until you have that under control.
I wasn't screaming it from the hilltops, I was just suggesting if you have a 30/06 already then no need to buy another rifle for a Buffalo Hunt. Many of the locals that live in Darwin use 30/06 and 308 rifles for Buffalo no dramas.
I know it probably insults your romantic idea of hunting Dangerous Game but the reality is that Water Buffalo are just an over grown Bovine and in most cases are fairly passive
PS there are a lot of Hunting Guides in The NT, i'm pretty sure you have not spoken to all of them. There is no licence required or Professional Guiding Body. Anyone with a business and access to some property can do it.

 

[CBH Australia]

30-06 "perfectly adequate" for Water Buffalo ...maybe for someone with your level of experience, but for a traveling hunter there are several better options. IMO - Starting with .375 caliber/9.3mm and going up from there.

Do you think a .35Whelen would suffice?

 

[BeeMaa]

Do you think a .35Whelen would suffice?

Hell of a lot better than a 30-06.

 

[avon_7]

I have never used a Whelen but Sambar Hunters swear by them in Victoria. Id say with decent projectiles it would suffice.
As always shot placement is much more important than Caliber alone, in my view....