Waterbuck opinion

[Gemsbok45]

Yikes,
You’re on this forum. You have a ton of outfitters and resources to use. Don’t get bitter with Africa. You have really had a cheap learning lessontake it from me.Now cinch your belt up and ask the people here.
You can get 15-20 quality quality outfitters here! Probably more!! Do your homework on the animals you want to hunt. Go to a Cabelas or Scheels and look at some trophies.

 

[revturbo9967]

DSC & SCI aren't "local" / "accessible" for myself.
AH Forum is the most practical and resource rich 'hub' that I have.

Neither are close to me either but if you’re looking to spend 10k+ on an overseas experience, it may be worth taking the trip and speaking to outfits in person. As 375fox mentioned, many sponsors cater to a certain type of hunter.

 

[speedfire]

would need a better pictures to be sure on the age...

 

[Kharn]

Neither show is local or practical for myself either but the more safaris you go on and the more specific of an experience you are looking for the more important they become. Nothing wrong with sticking to sponsors for a first safari (honestly it’s a good idea) but saying you will never consider a non-sponsor ever is thinking small.

Search websites. Find something of interest ask about the outfitter here. And check for them on Facebook.

This is the way I figure it'll go down, the following is hypothetical.

I have booked my first African Hunt (& Visit) with ABC123 Safaris whom are sponsored on AH!

The hunt was so successful and surpassed all personal expectations that I immediately want to book another hunt when I get back home, SO I DO!

Except...

ABC123 Safaris cannot offer me the "game" that I specifically seek on my 2nd hunt...

However...

The Boss of ABC123 Safaris assures me that there is another outfitter much larger than themselves (DEF456 Safaris) whom has the game I seek but isn't sponsored on AH... The Boss of ABC123 Safaris confidently tells me that DEF456 Safaris will give me an experience to remember the same way his outfit did at ABC123 Safaris.

So I book my 2nd African Hunt with DEF456 Safaris & have as much fun (maybe more) with DEF456 Safaris! During my stay at DEF456 Safaris I am eating in the mess hall alone but am approached by one/sum fellow holidaying hunters and they ask if they can join me for my meal, we get to talking, my judgement tells me they are good people, one of the hunters mentions an outfitter called GHI789 Safaris and was wondering if I had ever been there too which I answer no only to have all the hunters perk up excitedly and repeatedly recommend GHI789 Safaris particularly for X species, at first I was curious but now they have my attention and I make a mental note.

After the meal we go our separate ways and as I do I happen to bump into my PH/Outfitter Boss and I politely ask if they have ever heard of GHI789 Safaris before? The PH/Outfitter Boss smiles broadly saying yes and if I seek out 'X' species then there is no better than GHI789 Safaris.............

I mean I could probably keep going on but this is the way I see it going down, as fantasy / accurate as it sounds.

And it all started with the Sponsored Outfitter.

 

[revturbo9967]

This is the way I figure it'll go down, the following is hypothetical.

I have booked my first African Hunt (& Visit) with ABC123 Safaris whom are sponsored on AH!

The hunt was so successful and surpassed all personal expectations that I immediately want to book another hunt when I get back home, SO I DO!

Except...

ABC123 Safaris cannot offer me the "game" that I specifically seek on my 2nd hunt...

However...

The Boss of ABC123 Safaris assures me that there is another outfitter much larger than themselves (DEF456 Safaris) whom has the game I seek but isn't sponsored on AH... The Boss of ABC123 Safaris confidently tells me that DEF456 Safaris will give me an experience to remember the same way his outfit did at ABC123 Safaris.

So I book my 2nd African Hunt with DEF456 Safaris & have as much fun (maybe more) with DEF456 Safaris! During my stay at DEF456 Safaris I am eating in the mess hall alone but am approached by one/sum fellow holidaying hunters and they ask if they can join me for my meal, we get to talking, my judgement tells me they are good people, one of the hunters mentions an outfitter called GHI789 Safaris and was wondering if I had ever been there too which I answer no only to have all the hunters perk up excitedly and repeatedly recommend GHI789 Safaris particularly for X species, at first I was curious but now they have my attention and I make a mental note.

After the meal we go our separate ways and as I do I happen to bump into my PH/Outfitter Boss and I politely ask if they have ever heard of GHI789 Safaris before? The PH/Outfitter Boss smiles broadly saying yes and if I seek out 'X' species then there is no better than GHI789 Safaris.............

I mean I could probably keep going on but this is the way I see it going down, as fantasy / accurate as it sounds.

And it all started with the Sponsored Outfitter.

 

[Kharn]

"hypothetical" - I've never been, I've mentioned that more than a few times now... Or are you picking and choosin'?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

This is the way I figure it'll go down, the following is hypothetical.

I have booked my first African Hunt (& Visit) with ABC123 Safaris whom are sponsored on AH!

The hunt was so successful and surpassed all personal expectations that I immediately want to book another hunt when I get back home, SO I DO!

Except...

ABC123 Safaris cannot offer me the "game" that I specifically seek on my 2nd hunt...

However...

The Boss of ABC123 Safaris assures me that there is another outfitter much larger than themselves (DEF456 Safaris) whom has the game I seek but isn't sponsored on AH... The Boss of ABC123 Safaris confidently tells me that DEF456 Safaris will give me an experience to remember the same way his outfit did at ABC123 Safaris.

So I book my 2nd African Hunt with DEF456 Safaris & have as much fun (maybe more) with DEF456 Safaris! During my stay at DEF456 Safaris I am eating in the mess hall alone but am approached by one/sum fellow holidaying hunters and they ask if they can join me for my meal, we get to talking, my judgement tells me they are good people, one of the hunters mentions an outfitter called GHI789 Safaris and was wondering if I had ever been there too which I answer no only to have all the hunters perk up excitedly and repeatedly recommend GHI789 Safaris particularly for X species, at first I was curious but now they have my attention and I make a mental note.

After the meal we go our separate ways and as I do I happen to bump into my PH/Outfitter Boss and I politely ask if they have ever heard of GHI789 Safaris before? The PH/Outfitter Boss smiles broadly saying yes and if I seek out 'X' species then there is no better than GHI789 Safaris.............

I mean I could probably keep going on but this is the way I see it going down, as fantasy / accurate as it sounds.

And it all started with the Sponsored Outfitter.

I think I actually follow what you're saying here. I also think you are overthinking it a bit and tying yourself up unnecessarily.

I can't speak for all outfitters, I can only speak for @JKO HUNTING SAFARIS. Within South Africa we hunt a few different places (and also in other countries btw) that each has it's own specialties Let's say for discussion you come hunt with us at any of those locations. You have a good hunt and after getting back home at some point you decide you want to come back to Africa. But this time it's for a species that isn't in one of the areas we normally hunt.

Let's say that happens to be Blue Duiker, again just for the sake of discussion. One of two possible paths I can see at this point.

The first is you contact us stating your desire to hunt one. The response would be that we don't have those on the properties we normally hunt, however we have in the past had this same scenario. And as such we know of places in the Eastern Cape where you could connect on one. You book with us, and we take you there.

The second path is you do your own research and come back and ask me about an outfitter in the Eastern Cape. Honestly if I know of the outfitter and their reputation is good, I will tell you that. If I've never heard of the outfitter, I'm going to tell you that too. If I know of the outfitter and their reputation is not good......well that's a sticky situation. For me personally I don't think it's kosher to represent one outfitter and to bad mouth another outfitter, even if I think they deserve it. However I would not want to misguide someone either and have them get burned. So my response would be something along the line of yes I know of the outfitter and that would be about all I'd say. I would hope that sends a message of be careful.

Don't outwit yourself here. It can seem like a daunting task picking a good outfit to hunt with. But if you do your research relying on more than just a couple/few hunt reports and ask enough questions, you'll find a good one.

 

[Kharn]

I think I actually follow what you're saying here. I also think you are overthinking it a bit and tying yourself up unnecessarily.

I can't speak for all outfitters, I can only speak for @JKO HUNTING SAFARIS. Within South Africa we hunt a few different places (and also in other countries btw) that each has it's own specialties Let's say for discussion you come hunt with us at any of those locations. You have a good hunt and after getting back home at some point you decide you want to come back to Africa. But this time it's for a species that isn't in one of the areas we normally hunt.

Let's say that happens to be Blue Duiker, again just for the sake of discussion. One of two possible paths I can see at this point.

The first is you contact us stating your desire to hunt one. The response would be that we don't have those on the properties we normally hunt, however we have in the past had this same scenario. And as such we know of places in the Eastern Cape where you could connect on one. You book with us, and we take you there.

The second path is you do your own research and come back and ask me about an outfitter in the Eastern Cape. Honestly if I know of the outfitter and their reputation is good, I will tell you that. If I've never heard of the outfitter, I'm going to tell you that too. If I know of the outfitter and their reputation is not good......well that's a sticky situation. For me personally I don't think it's kosher to represent one outfitter and to bad mouth another outfitter, even if I think they deserve it. However I would not want to misguide someone either and have them get burned. So my response would be something along the line of yes I know of the outfitter and that would be about all I'd say. I would hope that sends a message of be careful.

Don't outwit yourself here. It can seem like a daunting task picking a good outfit to hunt with. But if you do your research relying on more than just a couple/few hunt reports and ask enough questions, you'll find a good one.

You understand, your response is exactly what I wrote but in your own words, it's encouraging to read let alone from a sponsored outfitter.

But...what do you mean by "outwit myself"? Are you talking about me trying to find the best sponsored outfitter? Best price? Best trophy? Best Location? Best something? I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "over thinking / outwitting" here?

I view all the sponsored outfitters as "equally safe" for a good hunt & the logically safest starting point (not be conned / get your moneys worth).

 

[revturbo9967]

I view all the sponsored outfitters as "equally safe" for a good hunt & the logically safest starting point (not be conned / get your moneys worth).

I think you won’t get conned by anyone on this site, but that should be only part of the equation. It’s more of what type of hunt to you want and what are your expectations of how it should go. What do you want to hunt ? Plains game ? Dangerous game? Do you want to hunt one large property where you stay within the boundaries to hunt all species, or do you want to hunt a bunch of small farms where you drive a few hours each day? Or do you want to hunt a wild area without fences and just go with the flow of what animals you come across?

There’s is a lot more to being conned then just someone outright lying to you. You could believe your hunt is going to be like xyx-but actually pan out to be dfp- not anything you expect or want.

 

[Creigh]

If they have a well run business, good track record, and lots of return clients, why pay for advertising they don't need?

Reputation is everything. Case in point is I book my favorite places the minute booking opens, about 9 months before season starts. Risky because they only produce price lists a month before. But still, worth the effort. They never have a open week even though they've a bit of a farmer's bedside manner. Anyway, they're easy to like, good people.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

But...what do you mean by "outwit myself"? Are you talking about me trying to find the best sponsored outfitter? Best price? Best trophy? Best Location? Best something? I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "over thinking / outwitting" here?

Sorry if taken offensively, that was not my intent. It was only to mean you seem to be getting stressed and worried over the decision, my bad if I read too much into it. Threads like this can cause a lot of angst especially for first timers. My intent was just to encourage you to do your research and ask lots of questions of the membership here. That is what this place is for and can help you be confident in your choice.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

How should I know about these outfitters you're talking about? I've never been to Africa as I stated........ Logically speaking I would be more comfortable with one of the Sponsored Outfitters.

What's stopping these other outfitters from becoming sponsors on AH forums?

There are some really good outfitters that have no online or social media presence. There are some who still do it the old school way relying on word of mouth and repeat clients. Some that come to the states during show season but don’t go to the shows and host small dinner parties at past clients homes with potential clients. Many of the best outfitters have a multi year wait.

I’m generalizing and know this doesn’t apply to everyone, but I’ve found a lot of the outfitters you see online, on TV, in auctions/raffles/giveaways need the business and aren’t the cream of the crop. Aside from the DSC/SCI national shows where they might be required to make a donation in exchange exhibiting, they are trying to generate customers/awareness. If you’ve got a great reputation and a waitlist you don’t need to advertise like that.

Regardless of where you hunt, I tell people to formulate a plan/goal. What do you want to accomplish? Is it a specific animal, place, size trophy, etc? You then narrow your search down to places that can help achieve that goal and be realistic about it. Once you have the place or places narrowed down you start talking to outfitters to see who can provide the experience you want, who has the history and you ask for references. Talk to as many as you can, talk to unsuccessful ones, talk to ones who hunted the same species, same time, and recently. If you can find one close to you, offer to take them for a cup of coffee or beer and pick their brain.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

This is the way I figure it'll go down, the following is hypothetical.

I have booked my first African Hunt (& Visit) with ABC123 Safaris whom are sponsored on AH!

The hunt was so successful and surpassed all personal expectations that I immediately want to book another hunt when I get back home, SO I DO!

Except...

ABC123 Safaris cannot offer me the "game" that I specifically seek on my 2nd hunt...

However...

The Boss of ABC123 Safaris assures me that there is another outfitter much larger than themselves (DEF456 Safaris) whom has the game I seek but isn't sponsored on AH... The Boss of ABC123 Safaris confidently tells me that DEF456 Safaris will give me an experience to remember the same way his outfit did at ABC123 Safaris.

So I book my 2nd African Hunt with DEF456 Safaris & have as much fun (maybe more) with DEF456 Safaris! During my stay at DEF456 Safaris I am eating in the mess hall alone but am approached by one/sum fellow holidaying hunters and they ask if they can join me for my meal, we get to talking, my judgement tells me they are good people, one of the hunters mentions an outfitter called GHI789 Safaris and was wondering if I had ever been there too which I answer no only to have all the hunters perk up excitedly and repeatedly recommend GHI789 Safaris particularly for X species, at first I was curious but now they have my attention and I make a mental note.

After the meal we go our separate ways and as I do I happen to bump into my PH/Outfitter Boss and I politely ask if they have ever heard of GHI789 Safaris before? The PH/Outfitter Boss smiles broadly saying yes and if I seek out 'X' species then there is no better than GHI789 Safaris.............

I mean I could probably keep going on but this is the way I see it going down, as fantasy / accurate as it sounds.

And it all started with the Sponsored Outfitter.

In a perfect world that could happen but the issue is, there’s something like 7000+ registered outfitters in South Africa … now you wanna talk the entire continent, it’s very unlikely you’ve heard of an outfitter. I’ve spoken to outfitters who’ve never heard of outfitter ABC123 that operates in not only the same country, but the same province and areas. Additionally lots of South African outfitters will offer you hunts in Zimbabwe …. most are not a licensed Zim guide or outfitter.

Let’s try and help you …. What are your top 3 wishlist animals for Safari #1? Do you want fenced or unfenced? If fences, do you have a minimum size requirement? How long of a hunt? Budget? Any thing else you want to see or do? Where are you traveling from? What countries are you interested in? Rank these from most important to least

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

You shoot, draw blood, you own it…

The rest is circumstance and case dependent.

I’ve been on both ends. Killed an immature Kudu an my first Safari, when I instinctively shouldn’t have. I ended up taking another one on the same hunt with a different PH. Chalked it up to experience.

Second Safari after a lot of research and interviewing Outfitters and their PH’s, and getting true references, I connected with the PH I’ve been taking exceptional animals with for several safaris. I completely trust him and his experience, he trusts my shooting and appreciates my instincts, and understands my inexperience with judging trophy size/quality!

Case in point: we were hunting a spefic Waterbuck known to be in a vast area and after scouting for the better part of the day, we found him. He was with another big one. We make a stalk, get to within 140 yards, Riaan says, sarcastically, “when you are done screwing around and comfortable, take him”! I ask, which one?! He said “the big one man!” “You must shoot!”, I ask, the one in front or back, because they are both big! “In front Mr. Lino”! A good shot sent him straight down! We get to him.

Riaan: Well, Mr. Lino you have no idea what you you’ve just done, do you?”

Me: Just took a monster Waterbuck!

Riaan: “Agreed man, a f^cking monster”

 

[USN]

Opposite end of the spectrum. First Africa Safari, first Africa animal. Ben Pringle PH, Nick Bowker Safaris in the east cape. I also could not can not judge trophy quality on the fly. We were not hunting water buck at the time but I distinctly remember Ben almost hissing “waterbuck, bloody big one.”
At the time I was too stupid to realize what a stud he was thinking good specimen. After 3 trips over planning 4th still get chills thinking about the way different PHs display how excited they are over a particular specimen.
Trust PH to judge my job is make first shot count after being told shoot.

 

[Moe324]

Opposite end of the spectrum. First Africa Safari, first Africa animal. Ben Pringle PH, Nick Bowker Safaris in the east cape. I also could not can not judge trophy quality on the fly. We were not hunting water buck at the time but I distinctly remember Ben almost hissing “waterbuck, bloody big one.”
At the time I was too stupid to realize what a stud he was thinking good specimen. After 3 trips over planning 4th still get chills thinking about the way different PHs display how excited they are over a particular specimen.
Trust PH to judge my job is make first shot count after being told shoot.

Nice waterbuck. This is exactly how I feel. I'm paying the PH for his expertise. Why would I try to judge an animal I don't see ever. I always just trust the PH. I figured they wouldn't have you shoot anything they would be embarrassed to have their name tied too. But on this case I was wrong. If you look at my korningkoppie post and see some of the pictures their former clients post it makes sense he would have me shot a cull and say it was a trophy.

 

[CRCO]

Just got this one from the taxidermist.

 

[CRCO]

 

[Hookboy88]

I agree. This not "representative" of RSA hunts. Not my experience at all. I hunted my waterbuck on a 167K property, only about a third of it actually accessible for hunting. PH and landowner are HS chums and best friends. Neither have any idea how many waterbuck are on the property. One spring on an inaccessible ridge they counted over sixty with binoculars.

Especially with animals like waterbuck and wildebeest, the client must rely on the PH's judgement for what is or is not an acceptable trophy. What does a client who's never seen African antelope before know about judging size, age, or even sex of some of these species? My third safari I took a kudu that was well short of what the PH thought it would measure. He really felt bad about it but worked out fine for me. It was a long challenging and very difficult stalk. I took a shot that I probably shouldn't have (brush in the way) but that's entirely on me. We did get it a day and a half later. Though shorter than he expected, the bull still had a very pretty set of horns. Also the cape was crap with a bunch of missing hair. Okay because I only wanted the skull anyway. Another client anticipating a shoulder mount would have been hugely disappointed. So, though not +50", it was a very satisfactory hunt for all concerned, even the bull. He was in very tough shape.
View attachment 624579
I can't see any excuse for this. Not for the PH. Anyone who hunts these animals professionally MUST have known that waterbuck was a dink. From any angle. I know it's a dink and would have laughed at any PH who told me to shoot it. But I have seen maybe a hundred of them. If the PH was the outfitter/landowner, then client should not have paid anything. This is a PH "mistake". Landowner sells the meat and pockets that money. It's essentially a cull hunt.

That’s a nice kudu from I can see. What did it measure?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

That’s a nice kudu from I can see. What did it measure?

Just 45". But he had a very pretty shape and color. Kudu are very difficult to judge in the field. Ask any PH.