What about a double appeals to you most?

[Daniel Cary]

After decades of reading about them, dreaming about hunting with one, watching movies with them . Recently Out of Africa, Ghost and the Darkness, and even one of the Jurassic Parks we watched to pass the time just made the want grow .

One of those things I never thought I would ever be fortunate enough to to own.

Years of hunting with a 375, then acquiring a 458, then more 375's, a 458 Lott and a 416 Rigby all in bolt guns.

I first laid eyes on one in person in Namibia, it was my PH Pieter Delports 470 Nitro express double rifle. It was beyond beautiful. I couldn't even bring myself to touch it, I just took pictures and imagines how great it would be to own such a rifle.

Time went by, I decided I will only live once so I started looking. A week or so ago my own 470 arrived. I carefully put it together,so worried I would drop something. Lifted it to my shoulder and everything was just perfect. Hopefully will fire it this week.

Thanks to all on the forum for their posts , pictures and advice on doubles! Dreams sometimes do come true!


View attachment 403568

That is sharp!

 

[Daniel Cary]

I want another one & I never shot the 1st one?

 

[Daniel Cary]

As requested: Verney Carron 450/400 NE photos.

I tried Hornady factory ammo as that was used during regulation. Three different lots of Hornady ammo had the barrels shooting 6-10" apart at 25 yards. Great groups per barrel; just too far apart. I called John at Safari Arms (great guy to deal with!) and he sent me one of his regulating boxes of ammo with 4 different loads using Swift A frame bullets. All 4 test loads shot better that any of the Hornady ammo. I picked the best load (purple primers I believe) and ordered several boxes. This load stacked 4 shots with L-R barrel shots almost touching at 50 yards. We have a winner!

I am working with my own reloads now, but I still have a few boxes of John's loads and I won't hesitate to buy more if needed. I talked to Hornady about the differences in their lots of ammo. The tech admitted they change loads/pressures/powders as needed. WTF??? Oddly, all 3 lots shoot really good in my Ruger #1 in 450/400 NE. Just shows how big a difference pressure and consistency matters with a double.

When you buy a double rifle you want it to shoot. Nothing is more frustrating than taking your new double to the range and it shoots like crap. Builders should contract custom ammunition makers to build ammunition befitting their rifles.

Another great thing about double rifles: You get to have another woman in your life, as double rifles are just like women. Beautiful; great to handle; lovely arm candy; they make the most homely man look dapper and handsome; they are expensive; complicated; frustrating; picky.....but when you find a good one, you never want to let it go!

Safe shooting........LL

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Beautiful skin btw. ..& a VC Round Body, nice!

 

[Daniel Cary]

Isn't it great how many doubles are suddenly coming forward? Several of our friends on the AH group are taking delivery of new guns, and some nice used ones too. I am seeing more stock doubles in the gun shops here in South Africa than ever before, and they appear to be selling. Not sure if this is all down to the better price, or is it just that the appeal of a double is stronger than ever?

I have a hard time finding listings, at least on the familiar sites. .. Kevin, have you gotten an ETA or received any pics yet?
Sincerely concerned with current state of affairs and what could be in the mail down road in the U.S., I opted out of of anything less than readily available. In hind sight, the time looking, researching, etc, a custom would've been here by now!

 

[SFRanger7GP]

Thank you Daniel. I originally wanted a 450 NE but when I picked up the smaller framed 450/400 with the round body, I had to have one. I put a box 2 boxes of ammo through it today. One with the red dot and the other with irons. After a few rounds off the bench, the rest was off hand and sticks. I have yet to kill anything with it. Hopefully a pig soon now that I am getting to know it better.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Thank you Daniel. I originally wanted a 450 NE but when I picked up the smaller framed 450/400 with the round body, I had to have one. I put a box 2 boxes of ammo through it today. One with the red dot and the other with irons. After a few rounds off the bench, the rest was off hand and sticks. I have yet to kill anything with it. Hopefully a pig soon now that I am getting to know it better.

SF, how did you find the iron sights relative to the dot? Did the fit and cheek weld compensate enough to give you sufficient accuracy? Doubles are inherently minute of something rifles, not tack drivers, and if that something is a buffalo heart at 50 yards I am thinking that is enough for me.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I have a hard time finding listings, at least on the familiar sites. .. Kevin, have you gotten an ETA or received any pics yet?
Sincerely concerned with current state of affairs and what could be in the mail down road in the U.S., I opted out of of anything less than readily available. In hind sight, the time looking, researching, etc, a custom would've been here by now!

The list time is 9 months Daniel, but since mine will be the standard dimensions with no custom frills the agent thought 6 months at most. No pictures yet, I doubt I will see anything until it arrives in SA, but I know every millimeter already anyway! Just order one, it will arrive in no time.

 

[HWL]

Another great thing about double rifles: You get to have another woman in your life, as double rifles are just like women. Beautiful; great to handle; lovely arm candy; they make the most homely man look dapper and handsome; they are expensive; complicated; frustrating; picky.....but when you find a good one, you never want to let it go!

Safe shooting........LL

You made my day....

HWL

 

[Rubberhead]

There's a mental component to shooting a double that doesn't exist when shooting bolt guns, pumps, levers, singles or autoloaders. The additional stimulation, I think, is pleasing (maybe even addictive) to humans - kind'a like a challenging video game, tough negotiation, or, dare I say, romance.

Just like the other action types, shooting a double requires keen muscle memory but, unlike the others, it starts with a decision of which barrel/bullet/shell/choke/trigger. Depending on how the hunter has set-up his double, this decision can be quite complex and has to be made at light speed. More critically, this decision can determine whether the outcome of the event is negative or positive. Then, after that decision is made and a trigger pulled, the shooter is immediately down to his last shot. This scratches another mental itch.

Standing in the presence of what may be alerted, wounded and/or running game and being down to his last shot requires perfection - it's walking a high wire without a net. Even if it's just a flock of birds the hunter is down to his last chance. This requires the steely nerves and mental self-control of a top athlete. By the time others get to their last shot the game is almost over and there's no harm in a thoughtless hail mary - the third shot out of a bolt or autoloader is usually very anti-climatic.

I think these extra neurons firing and the additional endorphins released when shooting a double in the presence of game are what keeps us intrigued and completely justifies the additional cost, thought cycles, and prep time of hunting with a double.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

SF, how did you find the iron sights relative to the dot? Did the fit and cheek weld compensate enough to give you sufficient accuracy? Doubles are inherently minute of something rifles, not tack drivers, and if that something is a buffalo heart at 50 yards I am thinking that is enough for me.

Good afternoon, Kevin.

The red dot is much faster and forgiving of proper sight alignment. I don't find it as "aesthetically displeasing" as a scope, but definitely a bit of a detractor from the clean lines of a double. It sits low enough so that is just slightly above being in alignment with the irons. I used this to align the dot to target when I mounted it. It was so close that when I fired with it for the first time, it only needed a slight adjustment at 50 yards.

I have a Leupold VX5 1-5i in QD mounts for the VC. I don't like how it looks or feels on the rifle even though I love the small VXR 1-4i that is on my Merkel 9.3x74R.

Small things I noticed yesterday, some of which will require more shooting to confirm my thoughts:
- I can shoot the red dot more accurately than the scope. Is it possible the VC is experiencing the famous "double rifle doesn't like scope syndrome"?
- The rounded brass dot on the front sight floats terribly based on lighting. Doesn't cause big problems but the group will move. I think all iron sight shooter have experienced that. The red dot eliminates that issue.
- I use a small, dessert size paper plate (about 6") as a target with a small dot in the center. This is about the size of a whitetail deer heart. I use this as a "minute-of-reality" check when shooting. If all shots stay on that plate, I am ready to go hunting. The red dot 4 shot groups were best, followed by irons and scope. Past range notes confirm that trend.

Safe shooting..............LL

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Good afternoon, Kevin.

The red dot is much faster and forgiving of proper sight alignment. I don't find it as "aesthetically displeasing" as a scope, but definitely a bit of a detractor from the clean lines of a double. It sits low enough so that is just slightly above being in alignment with the irons. I used this to align the dot to target when I mounted it. It was so close that when I fired with it for the first time, it only needed a slight adjustment at 50 yards.

I have a Leupold VX5 1-5i in QD mounts for the VC. I don't like how it looks or feels on the rifle even though I love the small VXR 1-4i that is on my Merkel 9.3x74R.

Small things I noticed yesterday, some of which will require more shooting to confirm my thoughts:
- I can shoot the red dot more accurately than the scope. Is it possible the VC is experiencing the famous "double rifle doesn't like scope syndrome"?
- The rounded brass dot on the front sight floats terribly based on lighting. Doesn't cause big problems but the group will move. I think all iron sight shooter have experienced that. The red dot eliminates that issue.
- I use a small, dessert size paper plate (about 6") as a target with a small dot in the center. This is about the size of a whitetail deer heart. I use this as a "minute-of-reality" check when shooting. If all shots stay on that plate, I am ready to go hunting. The red dot 4 shot groups were best, followed by irons and scope. Past range notes confirm that trend.

Safe shooting..............LL

Thanks SF. Does your scope have a red dot too? The reason I ask is I once saw something about the auto reflexes that take over from our conscious alignment, which is why reflex pistol combat shooters can get so good. Just a target and a dot and all else fades away.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

Good afternoon, Kevin. Yes, the scope has a red dot as well. The dot is a consistent aim point that minimizes lighting issues and human error, but muscle memory from lots of effective practice drives auto reflexes. Of course good kit will help get you to that point. In my experience, red dot shooters are more consistent and faster when comparing the same platform with irons and magnified optics. I was able to do a lot of tests to compare speed, precision, etc. some years ago. For speed and minute-of -good enough accuracy, the red dot ruled. When longer distances and precision were needed, magnified optics closed the gap or led.

I will never claim to be an expert on double rifles (or anything else for that matter). I just read too much, ask a lot of questions and then go to the range to see for myself. Logically, I should shoot better with the scope on the VC. I have often read and been told that a scope can affect the regulation of a double rifle. I always felt that was rubbish if the rifle is held the same, but people whose opinions I respect insist it can be a big issue. I am checking all variables and plan to burn a lot more powder to see if that is the case here.

Again, these are my personal experiences. By the way, what double rifle and caliber have you decided on?

Safe shooting..........LL

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Reflex shooting is certainly a very interesting subject SF, I too am no expert but as I posted about a year ago I was shocked at how accurately my VC O/U in 375 Flanged shot with open sights. It was more fit and point than aligning sights, in fact I dont even recall seeing sights on some of the best performances.
My new double is on order, a Heym 89b in450/400, the plane jane base model with coin finish and no engraving.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

Great selection Kevin. Isn't a "plain jane Heym" like a beautiful lady without all the fancy dressup stuff?

 

[machinistbutler]

Reflex shooting is certainly a very interesting subject SF, I too am no expert but as I posted about a year ago I was shocked at how accurately my VC O/U in 375 Flanged shot with open sights. It was more fit and point than aligning sights, in fact I dont even recall seeing sights on some of the best performances.
My new double is on order, a Heym 89b in450/400, the plane jane base model with coin finish and no engraving.

How long until the Heym comes in? I was going nuts just waiting a couple weeks, I can imagine how much you are looking forward to one you ordered yourself! I can't wait to see the pictures of it..

Craig

 

[machinistbutler]

There is a Heym for sale here in Canada that has a little engraving I am quite fond of. I would have loved to purchase this double but the price was a bit more than I was comfortable with.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

How long until the Heym comes in? I was going nuts just waiting a couple weeks, I can imagine how much you are looking forward to one you ordered yourself! I can't wait to see the pictures of it..

Craig

About 6 to 9 months Craig, going to be a real test.

 

[double rifle newbie]

That classic traditional iconic look! SxS's are menacing .. The OA length, with the receiver taken out of the proverbial equation, short, quick, handy! .. Looking down the rib of 2 Barrels subconsciously instils a bit more confidence ?!? View attachment 399851 View attachment 399850

for anyone who is an absolute fanatical Clint Eastwood fan and a fan of the incredible movie that this scene comes from, “ive killed just about everything that walks or crawls at one time or another, and im here to kill YOU little bill...for what you did to ned.”-William Munny. incredible scene

 

[double rifle newbie]

be

I am completely with you at this point....

View attachment 403419beautiful but dangerous and expensive to maintain. still, a quality double

 

[Tanks]

About 6 to 9 months Craig, going to be a real test.

My order for a Heym 88B in 9.3x74R was placed with the factory on December 15, 2020. It is landing at DFW airport tomorrow to get processed by US customs. So, close to six months by the time it gets cleared by customs and gets forwarded to my FFL.

I'll have 5 weeks with it before wheels up.