What is it about 404 Jeffery?

[Grumpy gumpy]

What's the overall length of your cartridges?

Off the two I measured ( soft point and solid copper) 90.2 mm , 3.56 inch. Mag well is 92.5 (3.65 inch)long.
Gumpy

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Off the two I measured ( soft point and solid copper) 90.2 mm , 3.56 inch. Mag well is 92.5 (3.65 inch)long.
Gumpy

OAL is only 0.03" longer than standard 404J at 3.53". You appear to have 375 H&H bottom metal. That seems like quite a bit of extra headroom in the box. Are you getting any movement of bullets in cases due to recoil?

Are you unable to get three down in the box? If your gun has the correct standard depth box with properly modified extractor and follower, you should be able to just push a fourth round under the extractor claw and close the bolt over three in the box. Hmm. If recoil is pushing the rounds ahead in the box, they might be too far forward to push three down enough and get fourth under the claw. It's a tight fit if cartridges are all the way to back of my box made for 416 Remington.

 

[Certus]

If Jeffery could have got a hold of magnum actions he would have built the 404 on them. Yes the 404J and 416Rigby can be built on a standard length action. However, in todays world, with monolithic bullets why would you hamstring yourself with an action length that does not allow you to get the best out of these bullets. The monolithic bullets are longer for a given weight and can do with being seated out so not to enter powder space.

Re the extra 200 to 250 fps muzzle velocity. Yes, this equals more recoil but also extends the useful distance of the cartridge. So if a miss hit on an elephant the extra muzzle velocity won't mean much if the ele was close as the extra shot should still have the ele within 100mts. But if it was nearer the 100 mts then the bullets wont be under the 1750fps when they get to it. Not to mention plains game at 200 to 300 mts. In other words a bit more of a safety margin. But this comes back to the individual and what recoil, distance etc they are comfortable and capable with.

Want a 404 or 416R and don't want a magnum action, then get a P14 or M17 Enfield or Rem30 action.

I’d argue the M17/P14 is a magnum action
It’s as big as a CZ550, at least.
Gosh all this talk is making me want a big bore OR a mil spec P14/M1917

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

OAL is only 0.03" longer than standard 404J at 3.53". You appear to have 375 H&H bottom metal. That seems like quite a bit of extra headroom in the box. Are you getting any movement of bullets in cases due to recoil?

Are you unable to get three down in the box? If your gun has the correct standard depth box with properly modified extractor and follower, you should be able to just push a fourth round under the extractor claw and close the bolt over three in the box. Hmm. If recoil is pushing the rounds ahead in the box, they might be too far forward to push three down enough and get fourth under the claw. It's a tight fit if cartridges are all the way to back of my box made for 416 Remington.

I built/modified the mag box, was a standard size before I did. I still need to remake the follower to clean up the mods on it. As it is, it is about 1/16 of an inch too shallow to fit the last case in, case of just not quite enough depth
Gumpy

 

[Jack Stevens]

I’d argue the M17/P14 is a magnum action
It’s as big as a CZ550, at least.
Gosh all this talk is making me want a big bore OR a mil spec P14/M1917

If I could find another one for a reasonable price, an old but-still-serviceable BRNO 602 in .375 H&H would make a great budget rifle for “conversion” to 404J. Have the existing .375 factory barrel re-bored/re-chambered to .404/.423 specs, along with any necessary tweaking and honing of the action for feed-reliability. BRNO 602s left the factory with 25” tubes, so you could trim it back a bit if you wanted to (24”, 23”).

Like so:

404 Jeffery Safari Working Rifle | DORLEAC & DORLEAC

www.dorleac-dorleac.com

And if it was an older model 602 with the integral factory “pop-up” peep sight in rear bridge, it would be more value added to the project.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I built/modified the mag box, was a standard size before I did. I still need to remake the follower to clean up the mods on it. As it is, it is about 1/16 of an inch too shallow to fit the last case in, case of just not quite enough depth
Gumpy

Standard box should be deep enough for three rounds? Are you using military follower?

 

[Bonk]

Yes, if I recall correctly, Ruger did a limited run of the bolt-action .404 RSMs in the 1990s, but screwed up the barrel by either going with the wrong bore diameter or the wrong twist rate. Can’t recall which exactly.

Too bad too. A proper .404 RSM, with its integral full quarter-rib, would’ve been both beautiful and affordable.

I have one. Not one of the limited run you referred to but I had my 375H&H RSM rebored to 404J. Wonderful rifle chambered in 404J.

 

[Fatback]

I have had 2 of them built. One on a Model 70 and the other on a CZ550. Just picked the CZ up yesterday. I’m looking forward to sending a few down range with the CZ, then I’ll have to decide if I want to keep both of them or not. One of them will be with me in August when I am after a buff and elephant. The caliber does a great job on all DG

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

Standard box should be deep enough for three rounds? Are you using military follower?

Misunderstanding here, it holds three rounds, just not quite four
Gumpy

 

[John Telford]

Misunderstanding here, it holds three rounds, just not quite four
Gumpy

Have a gunsmith make the fish belly mag plate. Even Jeffery did this on some of the rifles.

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

Have a gunsmith make the fish belly mag plate. Even Jeffery did this on some of the rifles.

Perch belly, and I’ll be making my own as soon as I finish setting up my new workshop
Gumpy

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

Perch belly, and I’ll be making my own as soon as I finish setting up my new workshop
Gumpy

Tintin, if you come to WBB25, I’ll let you have a shot
Gumpy

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Perch belly, and I’ll be making my own as soon as I finish setting up my new workshop
Gumpy

Just to be clear, it's only the floorplate you're modifying for 4+1? The stock is still standard? I had the option of ordering "extended" bottom metal for 4+1 but I assumed it would require a custom stock.

 

[Accidental Villain]

If I could find another one for a reasonable price, an old but-still-serviceable BRNO 602 in .375 H&H would make a great budget rifle for “conversion” to 404J. Have the existing .375 factory barrel re-bored/re-chambered to .404/.423 specs, along with any necessary tweaking and honing of the action for feed-reliability. BRNO 602s left the factory with 25” tubes, so you could trim it back a bit if you wanted to (24”, 23”).

Like so:

404 Jeffery Safari Working Rifle | DORLEAC & DORLEAC

www.dorleac-dorleac.com

And if it was an older model 602 with the integral factory “pop-up” peep sight in rear bridge, it would be more value added to the project.

Reboring a ZKK 602 from 375H&H might be an excellent idea. ZKK 602 is a true Magnum sized action, very good quality steel barrel included, its all there BUT, I would reconsider shortening the barrel. An original 602, 375H&H with original straight classic stock should with its 25" barrel balance quite well. Reboring to 404 Jeff would take at least some weight out of the barrel, shortening it even more. I guess adding some weight into the stock could balance it out but..
I`ve hunted a number of seasons with an old ZKK 602 often in very dense vegetation without experiencing any trouble in regards to barrel length.
One of the absolutely worst rifles I`ve ever shot (and I`ve shot some truly wild stuff) was a ZKK602, barrel shortened to 21"-22" with old "hog back" type stock with SUPER hot 458WinMag loads.

 

[Jack Stevens]

Reboring a ZKK 602 from 375H&H might be an excellent idea. ZKK 602 is a true Magnum sized action, very good quality steel barrel included, its all there BUT, I would reconsider shortening the barrel. An original 602, 375H&H with original straight classic stock should with its 25" barrel balance quite well. Reboring to 404 Jeff would take at least some weight out of the barrel, shortening it even more. I guess adding some weight into the stock could balance it out but..
I`ve hunted a number of seasons with an old ZKK 602 often in very dense vegetation without experiencing any trouble in regards to barrel length.
One of the absolutely worst rifles I`ve ever shot (and I`ve shot some truly wild stuff) was a ZKK602, barrel shortened to 21"-22" with old "hog back" type stock with SUPER hot 458WinMag loads.

My own custom .404 by AHR has a 23" McGown barrel. But yeah, I definitely wouldn't go shorter than that. I thought the Doleac conversion of the ZKK 602 was about right. Looks balanced.

Interestingly, there's a 20" barrel .375 CZ 550 for sale in the Classifieds.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

I have 2 BRNO ZKK 602 rifles in 375 H&H that I purchased with the idea of upgrading them to a 404 Jeff and a 500 Jeff. Since then I went ahead and bought 2 AHR 404 Jeffs and my Custom Heym which I just received. I'm also in the process of buying a Blaser 500 Jeff.
I'm not sure I will ever use the BRNO's but find it hard to part with such a great base rifle.

HH

 

[Accidental Villain]

My own custom .404 by AHR has a 23" McGown barrel. But yeah, I definitely wouldn't go shorter than that. I thought the Doleac conversion of the ZKK 602 was about right. Looks balanced.

Interestingly, there's a 20" barrel .375 CZ 550 for sale in the Classifieds.

Sure a 23" barrel can work well on a ZKK602. It depends on the barrel profile of course and also stock configuration to a certain degree. Originally the ZKK602 have a long and fairly slim barrel. Cutting an original ZKK barrel down will affect recoil at least felt recoil and increase muzzle jump. I have shot a number of ZKK`s some with cut barrels to various lenghts, some of them have had these oddball Weatherby/hogback stocks so inconclusive on these. But I have also compared with a friends barrel cut 602 with almost similar stock as mine experimenting hot loading 375H&H and we both agree that it was a noticeable difference. But, that is 375H&H and is of course easy to handle, subject here is 404 Jeff. Pushing a 400 grain bullet to around 2300+ fps with a cut barrel can soon be unpleasant.
20" on a 375 CZ 550 is short..

 

[PARA45]

I have had 2 of them built. One on a Model 70 and the other on a CZ550. Just picked the CZ up yesterday. I’m looking forward to sending a few down range with the CZ, then I’ll have to decide if I want to keep both of them or not. One of them will be with me in August when I am after a buff and elephant. The caliber does a great job on all DG

Did your local gunsmith build the 404 J?

 

[PARA45]

My 400 grain Hornady factory ammo is 2300 FPS. Interesting

You have a 404 J? Have you used it on any of your hunts?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

My 400 grain Hornady factory ammo is 2300 FPS. Interesting

Yeah, Hornady likes to load them hot for some reason. I understand their bonded bullets are good stuff and their brass from my experience is excellent. If I need more loading components, I'll probably buy a box of their 400 gr ammo, pound out the bullets, and reload to something less likely to require changing clothes in a phone booth before pulling the trigger.