What's the deal with stainless barrels

[R.M.C.]

@R.M.C.
I don't have a problem with rust, but then I don't hunt in areas like Alaska and other wet harsh areas. I do hunt in the rain tho.
All my rifles blued and timber as well as stainless with timber or synthetic are polished with Gilleys gun wax, even the barrel chanel and underside of the barrel. Makes water run off stocks and barrel like water off a ducks back.

I'll have to try that stuff, thanks for the tip

 

[lockingblock]

Stainless does not wear out more quickly. It can wear differently in the sense that you could see throat erosion manifest in what looks like dried mud in the throat vs a CM barrel that would look more pitted.

CM has a potential advantage in ultra cold, as in sub zero…stainless can lose strength but it’s around 20 below zero. Because of this, some makers will only use a CM barrel in light contours.


Stainless is preferred by precision shooters because it generally machines cleaner and you can store it dirty without issues.

CM has a potential advantage. You can easily nitride it…but it’s a process.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'll have to try that stuff, thanks for the tip

@R.M.C.

This is the stuff I use. Lasts a long time a little goes a looong way
Bob

 

[R.M.C.]

@R.M.C.
View attachment 450407
This is the stuff I use. Lasts a long time a little goes a looong way
Bob

Thanks Bob!!

 

[Tam Dl]

if fitted by soldering, will be difficult, if not impossible. There are fluxes for stainless steel, but.... I have my doubts.
Also, double barrel guns in stainless steel? How to do? certainly, not by classic methods.
So, I am sure, there are some issues on stainless steel in production of rifles.

There is no general problem with soldering stainless. I put it that way, because there are a variety of different SSs. When new stainless tubings come out in the bike world, like Reynolds 953, they always go with the soldering as a preferred method, and later welding. I am not sure that is a sensible process, I think there are other reasons for it than practicality, since TIG rules, but what it does show is how easy it is to solder. I have done some bike parts myself. I think silver solder is fine, and probably bronze as well, and there are a slew of very advanced solders you can get. The kind of place where it might be an issue is colour match. Suck it up buttercup, if the decision is practicality. I don't however think silver solder would be all that far off.

 

[Tam Dl]

I am surprised to hear the wear issue. I thought the main reason stainless barrels took off on target rifles was better barrel wear, less erosion from the powder. They were used on Bench rest rifles almost before anything else. Putting only a stainless barrel on a rifle, doesn't get you very far on a river trip, it took much longer to get all stainless guns you could drop in the water. But they had the stainless barrels on the target guns because they wore better. They were more expensive, if in addition to that they wore out faster, why were they put on every rifle that was used mainly with a roof over it's head.

I have have heard two potential downsides for Africa. One is that SS barrels are said to wear out faster from mono solids. I don't know anything about that, but it could be true. Stainless does gall a little, so maybe it gets rolled up faster than chromo when you ram a monos down it. If so, I don't know by how much. It might be trivial. A nitrating process in the bore would solve this one, maybe. But since chromo is a lot cheaper, why bother.

The other story I heard from what I considered a reliable source at the time, was that stainless is not as strong in heat. And the heat in question was as little as different temperatures as in hotter parts of Africa (Texas?). Sounds silly to me, what about heat from cartridges. Anyway, barrel taper would deal with that.

I used to paint my bows, when they were all flashy. There was a product made for it that washed off fairly easily. There are some options for that today. Or masking tape.

The one thing I don't like about SS barrels on stock guns is that with current fashions, they are often 20 or 18 inches long. As though the only reason to buy them was an alder tunnel. Some of the African cartridges have huge capacity, and need more barrel length to perform at their best. But it does seem that the 16 inch barrels sell better in some places than the 25s. I'm used to hunting with 68" longbows, so I don't get fussed about the length of a barrel, particularly given that it is in line with the line of sight.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

@Aussie_Hunter
Try Gilleys gun wax on everything mate. Won't stop it but sure will slow it down. I hunted for 3 days down south after sambar in the rain with blued and timber. When I got home after the hunt I stripped the rifle for a clean. Zero rust. A wipe down repolish with Gilleys and put it back together. Still no rust 5 years later. The barrel now sits in my shed as I rebarreled to 35 Whelen and the 270 barrel is still rust free and shiny.
Bob

Roger that! Never even heard of it before, I'll suss it out, thanks.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I am surprised to hear the wear issue. I thought the main reason stainless barrels took off on target rifles was better barrel wear, less erosion from the powder. They were used on Bench rest rifles almost before anything else. Putting only a stainless barrel on a rifle, doesn't get you very far on a river trip, it took much longer to get all stainless guns you could drop in the water. But they had the stainless barrels on the target guns because they wore better. They were more expensive, if in addition to that they wore out faster, why were they put on every rifle that was used mainly with a roof over it's head.

I have have heard two potential downsides for Africa. One is that SS barrels are said to wear out faster from mono solids. I don't know anything about that, but it could be true. Stainless does gall a little, so maybe it gets rolled up faster than chromo when you ram a monos down it. If so, I don't know by how much. It might be trivial. A nitrating process in the bore would solve this one, maybe. But since chromo is a lot cheaper, why bother.

The other story I heard from what I considered a reliable source at the time, was that stainless is not as strong in heat. And the heat in question was as little as different temperatures as in hotter parts of Africa (Texas?). Sounds silly to me, what about heat from cartridges. Anyway, barrel taper would deal with that.

I used to paint my bows, when they were all flashy. There was a product made for it that washed off fairly easily. There are some options for that today. Or masking tape.

The one thing I don't like about SS barrels on stock guns is that with current fashions, they are often 20 or 18 inches long. As though the only reason to buy them was an alder tunnel. Some of the African cartridges have huge capacity, and need more barrel length to perform at their best. But it does seem that the 16 inch barrels sell better in some places than the 25s. I'm used to hunting with 68" longbows, so I don't get fussed about the length of a barrel, particularly given that it is in line with the line of sight.

@Tam Dl
Stainless barrels have been around for a long time. It is only relatively recently that we have learnt to machine it properly
Winchester was making Stainless steel barrels since the late 1920s but found it difficult to machine so stopped its use in 1932 until recently, the last 50 odd years.
My 1907 model 92 with a Stainless steel barrel made in 1927

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Roger that! Never even heard of it before, I'll suss it out, thanks.

@Aussie_Hunter
Just google it and order it on line or ring them and order it. It say it's available at bunnings but they don't have it in my area. It's about 15 bucks a tin.
Bob

 

[Tam Dl]

Bob, that rifle is incredible!

I bought a Browning A-bolt in 30-06, it was the first rifle I was able to lay my hands on that was made in stainless. Around 1980. I thought it had a composite stock (this was before injection molded stocks appeared on serious rifles. It turned out to be black painted wood, and I sold it off.

I prefer stainless rifles, though it is not as much fun if they are only partially stainless, and have springs and such in something susceptible. One reason is because I may do some work on them and it is a lot easier to blend a surface around stainless than re-blue.

The stuff can be difficult to machine and it is highly variable. This reminds me that I have a job I have been putting off. I am making a fly tying vise about 30 inches tall. I have been putting off the work on the stainless for too long. Probably won't be all that bad, I think it is the marine stuff that is gummier. I don't remember. I don't do enough machine work to remember all the details.

I

 

[Flint]

I have done a bit of reasearch, for purpose of making an article on barrels.
There are two basic materials to make barrels: chrome molybden steel and inox (stainless steel).

Inox as general will be type inox 416, martensitic type.
Because of this material structure, it is generally accepted that such type of materials can be best polished and lapped, significantly better then chrom moly. It is also beleived that this highly polished surface of barrel interior reduces fouling of barrel. For this reason, best long range shooters, prefer exclusively stainless steel barrels, deeply beleiving that smoothness of material will give them best consistency in long strings of shots with minimum fouling.

(of course, it goes without saying that stainless is more resiliant to rust, and weather conditions, as well as extreme as extreme spread of temperatures, especially cold)
Howeever even stainless, is not 100% rust proof. Rifle has to be maintained, like any other rifle

Barrels can be made in general in three accepted ways: hammer forging, button rifling and cut rifling.
For stainless steel 416 barrels hammer forging is difficult, so in case that stainless steel barrel is hammer forged, most probably will be type 410. For button rifling, and cut rifling 416 can be. So 410, different material for hammer forging is possibly a compromise, but I am not sure of actual differneces between 416 and 410. It could be also that factories producing hammer forged barrels for their rifle, also import stainless steel barrels from other makers to fit in separate assembly line, if this material makes them difficult to produce by hammer forging.

But....
But, if a good hammer forged chrome moly barrel can produce 1/4 od 1/3 moa groups (with chosen factory ammo) , and if we talk about hunting, i wouldnt be bothered with accuracy issue.

Comapring three types of barrel production: hammer forging, button rifling, and cut rifling:
It is generally beleived (I am not using word proven) that hammer forged barrels will last the longest, and cut rifle barrels will have the shortest longevity. (then button rifled barrel could be in the middle with this estimate). So, in this way you can also look at stainlees steel barrels becasue 416 most probably will not be hammer forged, so if barrel is cut, will hav a bit shorter life span.

(top long range shooters prefer cut rifled barrels, and button rifled barrels, and hunters, genereally dont care)

Additional way to look at it: as mentioned, stainless steel is sweetheart of long range shooters, often using hot loads, and shooting long strings on a match or training in addition to having barrel burning calibers. Of course, such abuse will shorten barrel life significantly. (one barrel per season?) But this is not average rifle usage for hunters.

All in all: if I am resident hunter in Alasca, or frequent hunter in tropical rain forest, or top long range shooter, I would consider having a stainless steel barrel. If I am just hunting, in normal dry or moderately humid conditions, chrome moly will do just fine for me.

Also, one more point: stainless look fancy, especially when is fluted. One more thing to consider, but it has nothing to do with ballistics.

And another point, fitting the iron sights - i dont remember seeing stainless steel barrel with iron sights.

Very informative.
In layman's language.
Thank you.

 

[ZG47]

@Tam Dl
Stainless barrels have been around for a long time. It is only relatively recently that we have learnt to machine it properly
Winchester was making Stainless steel barrels since the late 1920s but found it difficult to machine so stopped its use in 1932 until recently, the last 50 odd years.
My 1907 model 92 with a Stainless steel barrel made in 1927
View attachment 450447View attachment 450448

If I recall the story correctly, those stainless steel barrels were specially made at the request of Australian importers, due to rapid wear during rabbit control work.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Just a data point, I used to hunt groundhogs with a buddy who used a pre-64 Winchester in 220 Swift that had a stainless barrel.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

If I recall the story correctly, those stainless steel barrels were specially made at the request of Australian importers, due to rapid wear during rabbit control work.

@ZG47
As politician would say I can neither confirm nor deny that. I know Winchester made a few 220 swifts in stainless early on. It's hard finding anything out about Winchester early attempts at stainless barrels.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

@Aussie_Hunter
Just google it and order it on line or ring them and order it. It say it's available at bunnings but they don't have it in my area. It's about 15 bucks a tin.
Bob

Ordered

 

[Bonk]

And another point, fitting the iron sights - i dont remember seeing stainless steel barrel with iron sights.

Ruger Guide Guns have stainless barrels and express sights. I've owned a stainless 77/44 and a 77/357 that had iron sights. I've owned several stainless Marlin lever guns that had iron sights. That's just a few that come to mind off the top of my head.

 

[mark-hunter]

Thanks @Bonk
How is the sight fitted on stainless steel bbl?
Dove tail? Thread? Soldered?

 

[Bonk]

Dovetailed on the Marlins and 77/44-357. Attached with screws on the Guide Gun.

 

[mark-hunter]

Thanks. This leaves open possibility for eventual issues with soldering.

 

[gbflyer]

You can use one of the Loctite products for a banded front also. I don’t recall which but it’s not hard to find.