Which rifles run fastest for driven hunt

[steve white]

Internet sources say that Franz Albrecht shoots either a Sauer 202, or a Merkel Helix--two different platforms for sure. I have only seen him running turn bolt rifles in the Boar Fever videos.
Looking at the need for speed from the turn bolt type, what is it that makes the 202 superior? If it cocks on opening, is it polished such that there is less friction and therefore less difficulty/more speed? Even my Mannlicher is a bit stiff after firing a shot to lift and cock. The older Colt Sauers, I believe had retractable locking lugs--would the lend itself to speed? He seems to be able to manipulate the bolt backward and forward with incredible ease, and only two fingers. Which rifles are easiest to open/close with two fingers?
More to the point of DG considerations, what can be done to any turn bolt to facilitate speed in manipulation? Certainly preventing locking lugs from being galled comes to mind--can't forget to grease those locking lugs! In a domain where doubles have long been seen as the solution for the quickest follow up shots, seeing Albrecht run those bolt guns seems every bit as fast. So what are suggestions for the best turn bolt guns themselves and any special tuning practices?
I am considering it almost a given that the push pull guns like the Helix or R8 are going to be fast. I might also ask--blasphemy!--why a pump action rifle like the Remingtons the Benoit family uses would not also be just as fast?

 

[reinwood]

If you look at Franz Albrecht rifles you will notice that he is having a muzzle break and he is shooting mostly 270win. This means there is almost no recoil, not time spent on re-aiming afer 1st shot. The benefit of having a linear bolt (like R8 or Helix) over a very smooth bolt action is just marginal, a split of second. Also in the action a little resistance as long as it is smooth is not an issue.
These split seconds gain are far less important than crisp trigger, right stock fiting and the fact you do not need to move your head to find the line of sight. Keeping your elbows high enough 90° will stabilize you rifle.
I put a ruber ball on my bolt handle so I can grab it faster and making it also not slipery.
These days I mostly us a semi-auto in 9,3x63 (browming Br MK3)

 

[grand veneur]

How often you shoot during such hunts and the more dangerous it becomes for the other participants and also for non-hunters in the area. That's why today's concept is to practice shooting for driven hunting so that you can hit the target if possible with the first shot and don't have to set off a firework like you would in a combat action. In the meantime, in Germany, we have to provide a shot certificate every year at a training facility before we can take part in such hunts.

 

[Accidental Villain]

Hi Steve
Franz Albrecht might be using the same technique as we do over here in Scandinavia shooting the so called "Stangskyting DFS"discipline. There are several examples om youtube.
I did shoot this discipline myself for a couple of seasons using a Kongsberg M98 Mauser with stripper clip, and also an Old Krag Jorgensen with speed loader. The Sauer 202 of course works very well with basically the same technique.
I`ve never had any use for this technique myself in the field except I might have used it once being charged by an odd badger at night..crazy wild situation.. Tikka M65 Wildboar. I can also use the technique on my vintage Rigby BG, but there is seriously no need because its easy to cycle the action during recoil.
Her`s a clip from 1986 I believe. Enjoy.
Who`s the fasest gun in town now..?

 

[Altitude sickness]

And that folks is why no one messes with Norway
They prepare their population for war with competition.

 

[Accidental Villain]

And that folks is why no one messes with Norway
They prepare their population for war with competition.

The DFS organisation is or at least was based on the idea of civilian preparedness so yeah, partially true.

Military enlisted might participate in this discipline with their issued H&K 416`s.
Its a kind of cool that regular bolt actions can stand up to military issue automatic rifles in terms of shooting speed and precision..

 

[BourbonTrail]

Hi Steve
Franz Albrecht might be using the same technique as we do over here in Scandinavia shooting the so called "Stangskyting DFS"discipline. There are several examples om youtube.
I did shoot this discipline myself for a couple of seasons using a Kongsberg M98 Mauser with stripper clip, and also an Old Krag Jorgensen with speed loader. The Sauer 202 of course works very well with basically the same technique.
I`ve never had any use for this technique myself in the field except I might have used it once being charged by an odd badger at night..crazy wild situation.. Tikka M65 Wildboar. I can also use the technique on my vintage Rigby BG, but there is seriously no need because its easy to cycle the action during recoil.
Her`s a clip from 1986 I believe. Enjoy.
Who`s the fasest gun in town now..?

Is he hitting the trigger with his middle finger?

 

[Altitude sickness]

I looked it up. Yes, they’re using their middle finger.

I would take a bolt rifle all day long over an HK, even with an upgraded trigger. With the long AR lock time. It’s harder to shoot accurately.

 

[BeeMaa]

Merkel Helix is probably the fastest with a “transmission” that allows the bolt to move double the distance that the bolt is thrown. The downside is any grit in this mechanism can make cycling difficult. But when it’s clean, it’s QUICK! A flick of the wrist will eject a shell, pick up a new one and chamber it. It’s really incredible to feel in person.

Browning Maral uses a spring to return the bolt into battery. To cycle the action, pull back on the bolt all the way to the rear and let it go forward. The spring does the rest. While the bolt is going forward the shooting hand can be acquiring the pistol grip making it (arguably) faster.

Blaser R8 has the advantage of market share, dealer support and availability. Probably the most robust action and it’s available in larger cartridges that the other are not. These factors along with the extremely reliable and fast straight pull action have made it (probably) the most popular one on the market.

Lots of good ones out there that I didn’t mention, but these are the major contenders in this field.

 

[Altitude sickness]

But remember it’s speed and accuracy. I would wager the reason Franz landed on a Sauer 404 or R8 for his driven hunts is the total package. combination of fast bolt work, good barrels, and quick lock times.

Shooting off hand, a few milliseconds delay in lock time is a lot of muzzle movement by the time the bullet leaves the barrel. The Sauer and R8 are approximately 2.5 milliseconds. By the way, a fast AR lock time with the Geissele trigger is 10 milliseconds often longer.

 

[PerH]

Stein Erik Bredvold mentioned in the Stangskyting video is a renowned stock maker that mas made stocks for many .
It’s easier to say which one that has not used them , if one think of the amounts of world cups and Olympic medals the stocks has won . In many competitions, entire countries competed against each other with his stocks

But it has also taken other records , like the 1st wild boar in modern times fell to a rifle with his stock on .

 

[Kevin375]

The prince Franz Albrecht also used a Blaser R93 in .30-06 and a Sauer 404. I remember I saw him having some issues when pushing the bolt forward of his 404 and I had the same problem with this rifle too and especially if you put too much pressure upward. The Sauer 505 has solved this little problem and its bolt is now like the ancient 202.
I have shot with many rifles and a smooth bolt action rifles definitely helps to shoot very fast but practice remains the key at the end.
For such purpose I prefer to handle a Tikka T3X, a Sauer 202 or a Weatherby Mark V than a Mauser 98 K, but with a bit of practice, I know some people who also shoot very fast with this action.

Nowadays, at least where I live, it's easy to find a place for training and more and more gunsmiths offer the opportunity to practice on running targets and we also have some cineshots. Definitely a good way to get used to his rifles and learn to shoot faster.
But I personnaly prefer my straight pull action rifles for driven hunt.

 

[mark-hunter]

Looking at the need for speed from the turn bolt type, what is it that makes the 202 superior?

The question needs European perspective.
Franz Albrecht shoots probably thousands of boars per year, has training and skill. His results wouldn't be much worse even with muzzle loader.

True driven boar hunt rifle is double rifle.
Poor mans double rifle is semi auto.

I use semi auto Benelli for driven hunt, yes it has quick repetitive shots, but it is heavy. Not light and handy like double rifle.
I tried Merkel Helix - straight pull rifle, good for stalking but would not be my first choice for driven hunt because of a bit too hard bolt pull for my taste. I am not too fast with it.

In conclusion, all things considered, from first thread:
I think that Franz Albrecht frequently participate in high volume driven hunt, and his choice of rifle is based on magazine capacity - in Europe, generally up to ten rounds in magazine is allowed for bolt actions. To keep the rate of fire, Franz Albrecht would need removable mag. Sauer 202, 404 complies with this need, and Merkel Helix as well.

Semi autos for hunting in Europe are legally limited to 2 rounds in mag plus 1 chamber, and double rifle is 2 shots. This probably determines his choice of rifle, to be bolt action, removable mag, 10 round capacity.

That being said, such high volume boar shoots, are in most cases organized in fenced areas.
In true free range area, double rifle is first choice.

 

[PerH]

This is one of his newest rifles acc to his Instagram page