Why all the 6.5 Creedmoor Hate?

[m457109]

The case is not the issue, the issue is that the Creedmore is designed for different rate of twist, longer BC bullets, lead, and phenomenal long range performance, on paper, or steel. Where this goes bad in the game field is that if it isn't a TSX, Nosler partition, etc... stubby for real range shooting. It has high BC varmint type bullets, and long range performance in mind. As if they had just magically made great shooters out of everyone, and bullets that gave perfect performance regardless of the velocity they arrive at the target, with.

The case is not the issue. If all you change is the case, and you shot the same rifle with the same bullet, at similar velocity, and your shorter hunting bullet liked the long jump to the lands. And if your shorter bullet liked the rate of twist... Sure, it works just was well as the Swede. If.

The case is not the issue... Though my personal pet concept is that I like cases that were designed with feeding in mind. And my personal pet concept it I like to standardize around long action bolt guns, though that is a concept on the way out, also.

The problem with the Creedmore is when people think it is THE SAME as what was already out there, an unnecessary duplication, when it is an all new thing. The ideas are not new, but the decision to upend what the baseline for 6.5 performance is, and a cartridge primarily intended for the majority of shooters who are not hunters, needs to be recognized.

Agree the cartridge was not designed with the hunter in mind. Too bad the majority of the hunters using it don’t recognize that and what its limitations are in the field.

 

[m457109]

Well the good news for you! You can actually grow your hair out! I don't have that luxury, haha.

Here is the way I look at things. Most people that find out I shoot comps ask the same question. How far can you shoot (insert animal here"? My response is, what are my conditions? I have shot groups at 880 yards that were 2". That doesn't mean I can make it happen everytime. Every person is responsible for the round they sent. If it is a shit condition and the animal is 300 yards away, I have no problem passing the shot. If the conditions are perfect I have no issue taking an 800 yard shot. No one has to agree with it, I'm not asking or seeking approval. I shoot my limits, if it's not their, I'm passing on the shot.

At the end of the day it is personal responsibility. 50 yards or 500, if you don't have the experience, or knowledge you need to practice.

I can ring 9”x16” piece of steel every shot at 600 yards with an iron sighted cz452 22 lr on a calm day. I can ring a 4’x4’ sheet of steel every shot at a mile with a ww2 8x57 Mauser with iron sights on a calm day. Just cause I can shoot targets at long range doesn’t make it ethical to shoot game at long range. Too many things can and do go wrong. If I miss the target by 6”, no harm, no foul. If you miss your mark on game by 6” it gives the hunting community a bad name.

 

[MS 9x56]

It is interesting reading people opinions. It seems people only look at things from their perspective not asking any other questions.

It appears to me you may not have hunted much canyon country. You may not have culled many animals. Certain times it is more efficient for a task at hand to kill far than up close. Not everything fits into one idea, nor should it. We all have bigger pictures to look at. That's why some people have bosses and other are the boss. It's their ability to see the bigger picture (among other things).

As far as the comment about getting closer. The last hog I killed, I stalked 230 yards and shot him at 8 yards. Try my best to practice every aspect of hunting that is possible.

You are correct sir and you have my apology. I have never hunted an area where I could see an animal500 yards away let alone shoot one at that distance. It is true opinions area like *** holes everyone has one and in this instance mine was erroneous. Never been afraid to admit when I make a mistake.

 

[Inline6]

I can ring 9”x16” piece of steel every shot at 600 yards with an iron sighted cz452 22 lr on a calm day. I can ring a 4’x4’ sheet of steel every shot at a mile with a ww2 8x57 Mauser with iron sights on a calm day. Just cause I can shoot targets at long range doesn’t make it ethical to shoot game at long range. Too many things can and do go wrong. If I miss the target by 6”, no harm, no foul. If you miss your mark on game by 6” it gives the hunting community a bad name.

Where do you shoot? I need to get some pointers from you. I have been shooting 22lr a fair amount this year. You are doing something I am unable to do. I'm using the best equipment and ammo available.

Here are my questions:

What ammo are you using?
What are your SDs and ESs?
Are you using a bipod or bags?
Aperture site, I'm thinking some type of aftermarket sight?
Prone or off a bench?

I'm serious I'll pay for the lesson, your ammo, time, and any possible expenses.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I've had a discussion with @Inline6 about long range shooting. He has more knowledge in his pinky finger regarding ballistics and long range shooting than I have in my whole body. And he practices a lot.

One could argue that in parts of Texas there really is no such thing as stalking game. You either sit over a feeder, the timer goes off and you shoot an animal that comes to feed at close range. Or you glass a wide area and shoot at distance. It can be argued the latter is more sporting. Especially for someone who really knows their stuff.

Another alternative is using thermal vision for varmints and hogs. And helicopters.

This isn't to say some property managers don't cut brush out to make a spot and stalk hunt possible. But if left to its own, this country closes itself up tight.

Drive through the small town and every one of them has a deer blind and feeder dealer on a corner

@Action Bob
Long range shooting with accuracy is an art that few can master and I applaud those that can
As a kid I used to love watching the old-timers banging away at thousand using nothing but an an old military issue smle 303 and posting respectable scores for today. Those old fellas wouldn't engage an animal at those ranges rhi.
With the advent of all the new equipment making it easier but still a lot of skill involved groups have shrunk dramatically.
One long range shooter picked a random F class Savage off the production line and went and shot a four and a half inch group at one thousand yards with an untuned rifle. That's some fancy shootin in my book.
What I know about long range shooting could be written in a postage stamp and still have room left over.
There are times like you said when it's either shoot long or go home. My hats off to those that can but it ain't me .
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

“The people who hate the 6.5CM”:
1.
Probably don’t actually hate it.
I certainly do not hate it.
Neither do I have a “$6K custom rig” (my 6.5x55 is a CZ 550 FS with vintage Leupold 3x scope)
Outshot by someone with a cheap Tikka rifle, nope hasn’t happened to me.
But then again, I don’t remember seeing any Tikka rifle among my friends sporting goods.
All this Creedmoor-mania is just silly (read my #3 comments) but hate is not the right word.
2.
We are just grouchy because now suddenly and without warning, ammunition for our 6.5x55 caliber rifles is no longer available.
3.
The fact that the 6.5CM is nothing more than an aggressively advertised, ballistic twin of our 100+ year old 6.5 cartridge, in other words it’s simply a marketing scam that adds insult to injury.
“Injury” being the sudden and without fair warning, discontinuation of 6.5x55 ammunition.
This makes us even more grouchy.

@Velo Dog
I don't hate the 6.5 but I sure as shit hate all the advertising hype and bullshit that make the new kid on the block think it's something it ain't.
Yes it's a fine and dandy longer range TARGET round but when it comes to hunting it has the same limits as the Swede.
Like any cartridge used within its limits it's fine. Push the envelope and you will run into trouble.
The only cartridge that is truly useless in MY book is the 243. Neither fish or fowl.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Where do you shoot? I need to get some pointers from you. I have been shooting 22lr a fair amount this year. You are doing something I am unable to do. I'm using the best equipment and ammo available.

Here are my questions:

What ammo are you using?
What are your SDs and ESs?
Are you using a bipod or bags?
Aperture site, I'm thinking some type of aftermarket sight?
Prone or off a bench?

I'm serious I'll pay for the lesson, your ammo, time, and any possible expenses.

@Inline6
I ain't in your league but I have just put a Hawke Vantage subsonic scope on my BRUNO No2.
Man am I have a bucket full of fun plinking inanimate objects and paper targets out to 200yards with sub sonic ammo. It's a whole new ball game just learning to dope the wind but I can say I was a fair to middling shooter and could hold my own but now using the 22 @200 is making me even better. It's a hoot.
Bob

 

[CoElkHunter]

“The people who hate the 6.5CM”:
1.
Probably don’t actually hate it.
I certainly do not hate it.
Neither do I have a “$6K custom rig” (my 6.5x55 is a CZ 550 FS with vintage Leupold 3x scope)
Outshot by someone with a cheap Tikka rifle, nope hasn’t happened to me.
But then again, I don’t remember seeing any Tikka rifle among my friends sporting goods.
All this Creedmoor-mania is just silly (read my #3 comments) but hate is not the right word.
2.
We are just grouchy because now suddenly and without warning, ammunition for our 6.5x55 caliber rifles is no longer available.
3.
The fact that the 6.5CM is nothing more than an aggressively advertised, ballistic twin of our 100+ year old 6.5 cartridge, in other words it’s simply a marketing scam that adds insult to injury.
“Injury” being the sudden and without fair warning, discontinuation of 6.5x55 ammunition.
This makes us even more grouchy.

+1 on your #2 sentence. It's not just the Creedmoor cartridge that has decimated the availability of ammo/brass in 6.5s but in many other cartridges. Hornady, Nosler and some others have concentrated most of their factory ammo and reloading components to manufacture their NEWEST proprietary cartridges leaving even their proprietary cartridges from fifteen years ago MIA. I get it that they need newer and newer cartridges to sell for profit along with their partnered rifle brands to sell rifles in the newer offerings, but that doesn't help the poor bastards who bought a rifle(s) in a proprietary cartridge in the early-mid 2000s and now can't find ammo/brass for them. The lesson is be aware of SOME of the newest proprietary cartridges for they MAY suffer the same fate in the future and leave the rifle purchaser in those cartridges holding an expensive tomato stake.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

You are correct sir and you have my apology. I have never hunted an area where I could see an animal500 yards away let alone shoot one at that distance. It is true opinions area like *** holes everyone has one and in this instance mine was erroneous. Never been afraid to admit when I make a mistake.

@MS 9x56
I'm never wrong but then again I'm seldom right either
Bob

 

[CoElkHunter]

I can ring 9”x16” piece of steel every shot at 600 yards with an iron sighted cz452 22 lr on a calm day. I can ring a 4’x4’ sheet of steel every shot at a mile with a ww2 8x57 Mauser with iron sights on a calm day. Just cause I can shoot targets at long range doesn’t make it ethical to shoot game at long range. Too many things can and do go wrong. If I miss the target by 6”, no harm, no foul. If you miss your mark on game by 6” it gives the hunting community a bad name.

Wow, that's some great shooting with open sights. As for me, I can barely even SEE the target bull with thin crosshairs in my scope on 9X at 300 yards! I need to quit reading these long distance shooting threads/posts while I'm still behind. LOL

 

[Just Gina]

With a Tractor

HAS to have the tractor!!

 

[375er]

HAS to have the tractor!!

Stripped denim coveralls too??

 

[m457109]

Where do you shoot? I need to get some pointers from you. I have been shooting 22lr a fair amount this year. You are doing something I am unable to do. I'm using the best equipment and ammo available.

Here are my questions:

What ammo are you using?
What are your SDs and ESs?
Are you using a bipod or bags?
Aperture site, I'm thinking some type of aftermarket sight?
Prone or off a bench?

I'm serious I'll pay for the lesson, your ammo, time, and any possible expenses.

Haven’t done it for several years. I had I buddy when I lived in northwest Kansas that had steel hanging at various ranges in a big pasture. Usually shot with a bipod on the hood of the truck. Ammo was usually Winchester power points. 22 was a factory cz452 lux with the elevator rear sight. Had to jam a wooden wedge under the sight to get the range out to 600. WW2 rifle was a Yugoslavian 98 Mauser with the typical ladder sight. Surplus 8x57 ammo. I know it seems unbelievable to be able to do it with basic equipment but was actually fairly easy after getting the range. Ladder sight on that old Mauser was graduated amazingly close to the numbers marked on it. Was actually a lot easier to hit those targets at those ranges with the iron sights than it was with scoped rifles. Not enough elevation in most scopes at that time.

 

[m457109]

@Inline6
I ain't in your league but I have just put a Hawke Vantage subsonic scope on my BRUNO No2.
Man am I have a bucket full of fun plinking inanimate objects and paper targets out to 200yards with sub sonic ammo. It's a whole new ball game just learning to dope the wind but I can say I was a fair to middling shooter and could hold my own but now using the 22 @200 is making me even better. It's a hoot.
Bob

Agree long rang plinking with a 22 is a hoot. Pull the trigger and smoke half a cigarette while waiting for the ding!

 

[Inline6]

@Inline6
I ain't in your league but I have just put a Hawke Vantage subsonic scope on my BRUNO No2.
Man am I have a bucket full of fun plinking inanimate objects and paper targets out to 200yards with sub sonic ammo. It's a whole new ball game just learning to dope the wind but I can say I was a fair to middling shooter and could hold my own but now using the 22 @200 is making me even better. It's a hoot.
Bob

Bob,

22s are great to shoot! Was shooting a night match a few weeks ago at 190 yards was shooting a 1.5" target. They get pushed by the littlest of wind. Good on you for stretching it out!

 

[Just Gina]

Stripped denim coveralls too??

Um…negative on the liberty bibs lol

 

[Inline6]

Haven’t done it for several years. I had I buddy when I lived in northwest Kansas that had steel hanging at various ranges in a big pasture. Usually shot with a bipod on the hood of the truck. Ammo was usually Winchester power points. 22 was a factory cz452 lux with the elevator rear sight. Had to jam a wooden wedge under the sight to get the range out to 600. WW2 rifle was a Yugoslavian 98 Mauser with the typical ladder sight. Surplus 8x57 ammo. I know it seems unbelievable to be able to do it with basic equipment but was actually fairly easy after getting the range. Ladder sight on that old Mauser was graduated amazingly close to the numbers marked on it. Was actually a lot easier to hit those targets at those ranges with the iron sights than it was with scoped rifles. Not enough elevation in most scopes at that time.

I'm running a March Genesis on my 22lr for the elevation. Have tested so much ammo to find the most consistent ammo available. I could have purchased a nice 22 with a scope for the cost. Custom action, custom barrel, trigger that is measures in ounces with trued data out to 800 yards. I can not do what you are claiming to do.

My offer stands, let me know where and when. I'll pay for the training.

 

[CBH Australia]

HAS to have the tractor!!

A reputable source says Safari Barbie has an extensive shoe collection.

 

[Just Gina]

A reputable source says Safari Barbie has an extensive shoe collection.

@CBH Australia , your sources would be correct!

 

[lockingblock]

6.5 Creed is great for its niche. The issue is that people don’t really understand how narrow the terminal performance niche is for a 6.5 130 gr bullet impacting just over 2k FPS. The mass and energy just is what it is…slightly below a 270 win.

I like the Creeds. They are well designed, efficient, inherently precise…and there is a lot of good ammo for them.

That said, I a reluctant to use it beyond mid sized game because I value exit wounds for blood loss.

YMMV.