Why all the hate for CBL (Captive-Bred Lion) Hunting?

[Quest#1]

I respect that @375Fox as i myself cut my teeth in SA archery hunt. Im glad i did as it gave me the bug for Africa and had a blast. i can’t plan trips fast enough. That said i learned what i didn’t like and wont do it again. But I'm not going to say SA and waterholes aren’t ethical. I respect anyone that enjoys it. But i also have strong beliefs in freedom to do what you want. Thanks for the video and ill watch it. Regardless of my thoughts on CBL.

 

[Daisy]

Can a few of you just get together and make a list of exactly the proper and ethical way we all should hunt each country/state/providence and animal? Then we can all be the same and not offend anyone. This everyone has a vote on what others do is ridiculous Wtf do what you want and enjoy it….

Damn that was a good post.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I have also seen where a scimitar horned oryx killed a rancher in Texas a few years ago. Take away any animals fear of people and they become dangerous.

Even the harmless little blacktails of California have killed people that had them as pets in an enclosure. Still, as much as I loved hunting the local deer, I would have no interest in shooting one that did not see humans as a threat or was confined in any kind of enclosure.
Jumping out of airplanes is dangerous but I don't have any interest in doing that either.

 

[Flbt]

This goes beyond individual ethics. No other hunting activity causes reputation damage to hunters the way this practice does. I’m also in shock the amount of liars it creates from hunters and outfitters to justify the practice. I think anti-hunters will be the most disappointed when the practice is finally banned because nothing else does more damage to African hunting.

I think that’s a. False argument.
Anti hunters don’t care if you hunt a lion with a knife completely on your own. It doesn’t mater how sporting and fair / hard you make a hunt the animal rights people are going to have a problem and do everything they can to stop you.
There is nothing a hunter can do to get approved by animal rights nuts. And there no point in trying to set hunting rules to appease them none at all

 

[375Fox]

I think that’s a. False argument.
Anti hunters don’t care if you hunt a lion with a knife completely on your own. It doesn’t mater how sporting and fair / hard you make a hunt the animal rights people are going to have a problem and do everything they can to stop you.
There is nothing a hunter can do to get approved by animal rights nuts. And there no point in trying to set hunting rules to appease them none at all

That argument has been made before and I think it’s a foolish one. They might not like any hunting, but whitetail deer hunting doesn’t raise them any money. CBL gives them a fundraising opportunity like no other and it’s completely indefensible by hunters because it’s adds zero conservation value.

 

[Flbt]

This goes beyond individual ethics. No other hunting activity causes reputation damage to hunters the way this practice does. I’m also in shock the amount of liars it creates from hunters and outfitters to justify the practice. I think anti-hunters will be the most disappointed when the practice is finally banned because nothing else does more damage to African hunting.

Do you really think it will stop
Or move to another country at a higher price?
I can sell you my bull. He has horns once I sell him to you. You can kill him if you wish.
You payed enough for me to let you shot him.
There is no hunting involved. But I want be there if you tell people you hunted him.

What’s the laws on exotic pets?
I am sure if you payed a exotic pet broker enough they would happily let you kill it.
Only the paperwork and name has changed.
Still a dead cat from a cage with a few more steps involved

 

[375Fox]

Do you really think it will stop
Or move to another country at a higher price?
I can sell you my bull. He has horns once I sell him to you. You can kill him if you wish.
You payed enough for me to let you shot him.
There is no hunting involved. But I want be there if you tell people you hunted him.

What’s the laws on exotic pets?
I am sure if you payed a exotic pet broker enough they would happily let you kill it.
Only the paperwork and name has changed.
Still a dead cat from a cage with a few more steps involved

CBL only occurs in one country. Lion hunting occurs in other countries. We will find out next year when it’s supposedly banned. However, CBL occurred in South Africa primarily in the absence of laws and ethics. I see no other country deciding to adopt the practice and make it legal.

 

[Flbt]

That argument has been made before and I think it’s a foolish one. They might not like any hunting, but whitetail deer hunting doesn’t raise them any money. CBL gives them a fundraising opportunity like no other and it’s completely indefensible by hunters because it’s adds zero conservation value.

Not saying it’s right or wrong.
But there are hunters that could care less about conservation.
And conservation can be achieved with no hunter input at all
Look a the USA feral hog problem they say there no way to hunt the problem away.

 

[375Fox]

But there are hunters that could care less about conservation

This becomes very clear with each CBL thread that occurs. Many can care less about facts as well.

 

[Flbt]

CBL only occurs in one country. Lion hunting occurs in other countries. We will find out next year when it’s supposedly banned. However, CBL occurred in South Africa primarily in the absence of laws and ethics. I see no other country deciding to adopt the practice and make it legal.

Well the breed of cat may be spiffick to sa
But I remember talk about jaguar in South America being released for hunters
I even think Robert Roake hinted at it.
Teddy Rosesavelt has a roped bear offered up
Trophy 300 class whitetail in fl and tx with a 20 foot fence.
Canned hunts have been around a long time

 

[375Fox]

Well the breed of cat may be spiffick to sa
But I remember talk about jaguar in South America being released for hunters
I even think Robert Roake hinted at it.
Teddy Rosesavelt has a roped bear offered up
Trophy 300 class whitetail in fl and tx with a 20 foot fence.
Canned hunts have been around a long time

Teddy Roosevelt also turned down the bear because it wasn’t sporting. That’s how Teddy Bears got their name. Might want to review some of your facts.

Also not too long ago South Africa offered Tiger and Jaguar hunts.

 

[Hunt anything]

Going to throw another hot topic into this thread, I believe it was Peter Capstick that talked about canned jaguar hunting. In British Honduras I think it was or maybe Belize. Then again it might have been Ruark. Minds not what it used to be.

 

[Flbt]

This becomes very clear with each CBL thread that occurs. Many can care less about facts as

Teddy Roosevelt also turned down the bear because it wasn’t sporting. That’s how Teddy Bears got their name. Might want to review some of your facts.

Also not too long ago South Africa offered Tiger and Jaguar hunts.

Never said he shot it. And yea heard the same thing about the name of the teddy bear

But if they did it for him o sure it wasn’t the first time they did it. Because I don’t think ropeing a bear would be easy.
I know my horses want get close enough to throw a loop on a bear.

And honestly I really not for or against the cbl
Really didn’t know it was that big of thing to this post.
I am just commenting on the things that get my attention. I probably will never be in a place to lion hunt of any kind.

I don’t like bow hunting. I don’t think it’s ethical. So I don’t do it.
If some one else wants to go for it.
It’s not my job to put my belief one some one else ( I am not that important and neither are my ethnics)

Kinda the same with this. If I ever got to hunt a lion I would rather have a wild one

But if someone else wants to
It’s not really my business

And personal I think we have enough issues with animal rights nuts that we don’t need to eat our on.
Even if there red steep kids because we don’t like there ethnic or perferd way to hunt

 

[mark-hunter]

Can a few of you just get together and make a list of exactly the proper and ethical way we all should hunt each country/state/providence and animal? Then we can all be the same and not offend anyone. This everyone has a vote on what others do is ridiculous Wtf do what you want and enjoy it….

It is a good point, but the answer is not on individuals.

All those must be addressed to international and national hunting organizations of member hunters.
Then they should amend the code of ethics, and make it public, and enforce it.

Things change, our environment changes so the rules of ethics must change as well.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Against my better judgment, I am going to comment.

I don't know of any non-hunter that watched blood lions, I do know that everyone heard of Cecil and I got asked a lot of questions about it. That hunt really got a lot of non-hunters fired up, between the wounding with a bow, baiting and the hunt near a national park, it had a lot of information for the public to pick apart. I think the media publicity really did a lot of damage and was a fundraiser boom. To say Blood Lions caused more damage, I don't think is accurate. MAYBE it fired the anti's up and gave them a target.

I also think there is some conservation value to having genetically different lions available that could be used as an introduction. Even though that might not be necessary now, we don't know what the future holds. I also realize the counter to this argument is lions will still be raised and just killed in a pen for the bone trade so it is not like they will 100% go away.

I will say I have not heard the point that areas with wild lions have enough wild lions and are at or beyond capacity, I know some areas are but didn't think this was large scale.

The good news is this will all go away shortly, and we can argue about other things. We can also be happy that anti hunting is basically a giant grift, and not truly focused on ending hunting or preserving animals. I personally believe this is almost irrelevant now to anti hunting orgs and they have shifted their focus to ballot box biology, wolf introduction and USFW imports.

 

[Certus]

Do you actually have to have a license to catch snakes in Australia?

Public liability insurance is pretty much it. But she’s also done a venomous snake handling course on top of that.

 

[Certus]

Can a few of you just get together and make a list of exactly the proper and ethical way we all should hunt each country/state/providence and animal? Then we can all be the same and not offend anyone. This everyone has a vote on what others do is ridiculous Wtf do what you want and enjoy it….

I thought mountain lion using dogs was unsporting, cheating, dumb…

Now I want to do it that way as it’s part of the way it is done and a classic way in itself.