Why all the hate for CBL (Captive-Bred Lion) Hunting?

[coreydb]

"As long as it is a challenging, ethical hunt..."

That would seem to.be the question, wouldn't it?

You betcha

 

[Quest#1]

Just when i thought….

 

[Philip Glass]

"As long as it is a challenging, ethical hunt..."

That would seem to.be the question, wouldn't it?

I would just say don't paint with too broad of a brush.

 

[Hogpatrol]

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I would just say don't paint with too broad of a brush.

Agreed. While I don't hunt anything behind game fences, or put-and-take and certainly understand why many object to it, I do not advocate for the complete outlawing of CBL hunting. As you said, "As long as it is a challenging and ethical hunt..." but the practise leaves a lot of room for something else.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Was "Blood Lions" the documentary with hidden camera footage? I saw something on PBS channel a couple years ago. Didn't catch the title. Man, some of those "safari operators" were sketchy dudes! Definitely would not turn my back on them! "Umm ... uhh ... nice to meet you. Cough, cough. Sorry, I'm gonna have to call in sick on this one. Forget the deposit. Just take me back to the airport!" Was that the piece that showed the Asian "hunter" shooting the lion in the corral?

 

[Russ16]

Was "Blood Lions" the documentary with hidden camera footage? I saw something on PBS channel a couple years ago. Didn't catch the title. Man, some of those "safari operators" were sketchy dudes! Definitely would not turn my back on them! "Umm ... uhh ... nice to meet you. Cough, cough. Sorry, I'm gonna have to call in sick on this one. Forget the deposit. Just take me back to the airport!" Was that the piece that showed the Asian "hunter" shooting the lion in the corral?

I watched it over the weekend and didn’t see that scene. Maybe I missed it.

 

[HankBuck]

Was "Blood Lions" the documentary with hidden camera footage? I saw something on PBS channel a couple years ago. Didn't catch the title. Man, some of those "safari operators" were sketchy dudes! Definitely would not turn my back on them! "Umm ... uhh ... nice to meet you. Cough, cough. Sorry, I'm gonna have to call in sick on this one. Forget the deposit. Just take me back to the airport!" Was that the piece that showed the Asian "hunter" shooting the lion in the corral?

@Ontario Hunter - remember there has NEVER been an honest & objective “documentary” made —- the Conclusion was determined before the camera was even turned on. Many situations are heavily staged, some animals shot or tortured by the makers of the “Documentary” and Not real hunters…..PETA, HSUS, DISNEY and others have been caught doing this. Same can also be said (unfortunately) for some Pro Hunting & conservation “documentaries”. Documentaries must be funded or have a theme that will “sell” and lure an audience on TV, movies etc.. Very few are 100% real. It is a sad situation that so much information - presented as “news or documentary” is so frequently staged & scripted….I remain skeptical of what airs on TV

 

[Flewis]

@Ontario Hunter - remember there has NEVER been an honest & objective “documentary” made —- the Conclusion was determined before the camera was even turned on. Many situations are heavily staged, some animals shot or tortured by athe makers of the “Documentary” and Not real hunters…..PETA, HSUS, DISNEY and others have been caught doing this. Same can also be said (unfortunately) for some Pro Hunting & conservation “documentaries”. Documentaries must be funded or have a theme that will “sell” and lure an audience on TV, movies etc.. Very few are 100% real. It is a sad situation that so much information - presented as “news or documentary” is so frequently staged & scripted….I remain skeptical of what airs on TV

After working in tv for well over 40 years you don’t know how right you are.

 

[HankBuck]

After working in tv for well over 40 years you don’t know how right you are.

@Flewis - well. I worked with our PR and advertising dept on a few occasions and also coordinated our response to occasional Protests but PETA and other “kook groups” and had to deal with their “supposed Documentaries” —- both sides participate in Pure Fiction to get their point of view across…. TV must be Fun too !! It’s all like Real Life — except TOTALLY FAKE !!

 

[dchum]

I am a true hunter. This means I want to hunt anything and everything that is legal to hunt anywhere. The whole "I would never hunt X" does not apply to me. As long as it a challenging, ethical hunt then I am game!

Go do a CBL Phillip

 

[Philip Glass]

Go do a CBL Phillip

Maybe someday. I've already hunted a lion in Zim.

 

[dlmac]

This interesting, but I think it is a mute point. From what I have read, the decisions by the involved countries have decided to close the CBL farms and destroy the CBLS..

 

[Doug3006]

I read the original post the day it was posted and have struggled coming up with a logical response. I’m still not there. Logical or not, here’s my two cents.

As I understand the term, CBL hunts involve releasing a captive-bred lion for the purpose of shooting it. Sometimes the same day as it was released. Sometimes a few days or weeks later. The area of the release does not support wild lions.

If this is accurate, I wouldn’t take part in a CBL hunt. I think doing so would reduce the hunt to just collecting and diminish the value of one of our greatest game animals. This practice is a world away from introducing lions into large conservancies, like has been done in the Save and Bubye, where the lions live like lions anywhere. Self-sufficient breeding populations that can be hunted. I’m all for that.

The reason I’ve struggled is because I have hunted planted quail, chukar and pheasants many times. I couldn’t have trained my pointer dog only on wild birds, because of where I live. Yes, I can see the ethical double standard I’m applying.

Nonetheless, Lions ain’t Pheasants. To me there’s a big difference. Logic be damned.

That’s where I land, but obviously many believe differently. To them I say, have at it!

 

[375Fox]

This interesting, but I think it is a moot point. From what I have read, the decisions by the involved countries have decided to close the CBL farms and destroy the CBLS..

The practice only occurs in South Africa not other countries. It’s not the first time they’ve announced intent to make the practice illegal. We will see if it actually happens this time. I’ll be glad if this argument never occurs again following the end of 2025 season.

 

[DieJager]

I’ll be glad if this argument never occurs again following the end of 2025 season.

To be honest it is still Africa, so there is a chance we will still have this debate ten years from now.

 

[BnC 04]

I've been a forum member for a long time (2011) and have seen this discussion more times then I care to remember. Though I've never chosen to reply (that I can remember) but I will post my thoughts this time around. It may pissoff some of my forum friends but we all have our opinion(s) on this topic.

First off, I did a CBL several years ago, before the import ban, so we were fortunate to be able to bring the taxidermy home.

Would I do it again? Nope
Would I suggest such a trip to a family member? Yes, assuming they knew and understood exactly what they are participating in.

I have numerous close friends that have done CBL trips and half a dozen friends that have successfully hunted wild lion.
The one thing that has always stood out to me when speaking with my friends prior to their trip is that the wild lion guys used the word "if" they kill their cat. While every single CBL friend used "when". My CBL friends made it clear they did it to "check the box".

If my memory serves me correctly I was in my early/mid 30s when I did the CBL and got caught up in the opportunity to kill a lion at a reasonable price. It was a great 3 day adventure for sure but I have not, nor would/will not compare that trip to a true lion hunt.

We are fortunate enough to be in the position to hunt a wild lion and have chosen to wait till I hit 60.
I feel like at that point of my hunting life that I know I will appreciate every single aspect of what makes a wild lion hunt so special and never feel like it was a checkmark in my journey.

Again, I don't discourage people from doing a CBL as long they understand the difference.

Happy hunting and straight shooting to everyone!

 

[Flbt]

I read the original post the day it was posted and have struggled coming up with a logical response. I’m still not there. Logical or not, here’s my two cents.

As I understand the term, CBL hunts involve releasing a captive-bred lion for the purpose of shooting it. Sometimes the same day as it was released. Sometimes a few days or weeks later. The area of the release does not support wild lions.

If this is accurate, I wouldn’t take part in a CBL hunt. I think doing so would reduce the hunt to just collecting and diminish the value of one of our greatest game animals. This practice is a world away from introducing lions into large conservancies, like has been done in the Save and Bubye, where the lions live like lions anywhere. Self-sufficient breeding populations that can be hunted. I’m all for that.

The reason I’ve struggled is because I have hunted planted quail, chukar and pheasants many times. I couldn’t have trained my pointer dog only on wild birds, because of where I live. Yes, I can see the ethical double standard I’m applying.

Nonetheless, Lions ain’t Pheasants. To me there’s a big difference. Logic be damned.

That’s where I land, but obviously many believe differently. To them I say, have at it!

How big a difference is the animal being put out to hunt really.
Or is it just our perspective?
Some places eat horse some eat dogs.
A a lot of places in the west see that different than hogs and cows that we eat.
Some places hog tababo some places cows are holey.
Is there really a difference?
Or is it like ethics really meaningful to you but not so much to others?

 

[Doug3006]

How big a difference is the animal being put out to hunt really.
Or is it just our perspective?
Some places eat horse some eat dogs.
A a lot of places in the west see that different than hogs and cows that we eat.
Some places hog tababo some places cows are holey.
Is there really a difference?
Or is it like ethics really meaningful to you but not so much to others?

You’re asking the right questions.

I believe there is a huge difference between hunting an animal in it’s natural environment, that has lived there all of its life, behaving as his kind have for millennium, versus shooting a lion that was raised for the gun having never really been a lion. This can be accomplished behind a fence if the acreage is sufficient and the game within is living and dying and propagating naturally.

If your last question is asking whether ethics matter, or if everything is all too subjective to say, then my answer is…..ethics do matter.

 

[Flbt]

You’re asking the right questions.

I believe there is a huge difference between hunting an animal in it’s natural environment, that has lived there all of its life, behaving as his kind have for millennium, versus shooting a lion that was raised for the gun having never really been a lion. This can be accomplished behind a fence if the acreage is sufficient and the game within is living and dying and propagating naturally.

If your last question is asking whether ethics matter, or if everything is all too subjective to say, then my answer is…..ethics do matter.

But what’s the difference between a bird , hog, and lion?
There all hunted or killed putting them where there not. But you don’t see the damming of birds and hogs. But it’s the exact same thing.
The animal is just different

My stance on ethnic are simply there no world wide except ethnics there is no stander
There for ethnics are your personal thing they mater to you.
That’s good. But your ethnics might not matter to me and my actions should not be controlled by your ethics no more than you should be by mine