why do people not use premium bullets?

[grand veneur]

Ultimately, why do people not use premium bullets ? Maybe initially out of ignorance, but certainly not out of idiocy.

Many of us come from times when there were neither forums nor the internet where you could have long discussions about bullets and calibers. One just used what was available and what was recommended by the local gun dealer. If the cartridge worked well, it continued to be used, even if more modern bullets came onto the market in the meantime.

This was partly the case for hunting Big Game in Africa. Initially there were only two loads from Weatherby available for the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum and for this reason I would never have had any other idea than to use the classic SP or FMJ bullet from the factory loads. The RWS factory loads of the cartridge 10,75x68 were at the time only supplied with the 22,5g thin jacketed FMJ bullet, so it was assumed that it must work if it was offered by the manufacturer. With increasing experience you realize that some loads are marginal for that purpose. Unfortunately, with the cartridge 11,2x72 Schüler only the classic bullet Woodleigh 401gr SN RN was available, and because I wanted to shoot a buffalo with the rifle, I made a compromise. It was not my first buffalo so I knew what I was doing and shot only under the best conditions.

Summarized, we may have remained old-fashioned in some corners, but we are not completely ignorant or totally stupid if we continue to use classic bullets and not premium bullets.

 

[mark-hunter]

Ultimately, why do people not use premium bullets ? Maybe initially out of ignorance, but certainly not out of idiocy.

I tried to explain in my earlier posts. Sometimes is ignorance, but sometimes there is no need.
Sometimes using premium bullet is totally wrong.

I will give example of wrong usage in my experience.
I was succesfully using nosler ballistic tips in 30-06, 180 grains for roe buck.
I was reluctant to use the same on wild boar that can grow large. I wanted dual purpose bullet

So, I thought I found good bullet for both usage.
I took sako superhammerhead in 150 grain. Bonded.

My reasoning was, fast velocity 900 m/s will 1) initiate expansion in soft tissue. 2) Fast velocity will give better trajectory, and 3) when hitting big boar in the shoulder the bullet will not fragment.
But my thinking was wrong, on first point

What happened next in thee consecutive seasons, I hit roe deer, behind the shoulder, and not hitting the bone.
When this happened, roe deer did not show any reaction on bullet, and would run away. or would just stand and look around, wouldnt even feel being hit, with complete pass through.

Each time I hit in same spot behind shoulder, maybe 6 roe deer, acted the same. I needed to track, would find every time, but tracking is not pleasent, or if deer did not show being hit, I would need second shot.

If hit in the shoulder bone, effect was drastic, and usually would drop on spot. I was just lucky not loosing any of them wounded.
So, I went back to nosler ballistic tips.

There is a role in hunting for every type of bullet, depending of caliber and depending of species of game hunted.
For varmints for example you dont need premium bullets.

Now I use ballistic tips for roe deer (800 m/s), round nose soft point 9.3, 286 grain for wild boar (700 m.s). and norma swift a frame for african safari, 300 grain, 375 HH.

If we are going to widen the subject to training with hunting rifle, then also the cheapest ammo and FMJ have their role.

But all above needs understanding and knowledge in ballistics, and what was factory intention to create when making specific bullet.

 

[Rule 303]

View attachment 557325
F.l.t.r., .458 500gr Hornady FMJ, .458 500gr Hornady Interbond, .440/11,2mm 401gr Woodleigh RN SN

I once used with the cartridge 11,2x72 Schüler the 11,2mm Woodleigh 401gr SP bullet to shot a buffalo. Although it broke up in the animal's body, it killed it. I was able to observe the same thing with the cartridge 10,75x68 and the .423/10,75mm RWS 22,5g FMJ bullet on two buffalos. Such bullets are certainly no more suitable nowadays for buffalo hunting, let alone elephant hunting. I never used bullets like that again.

View attachment 557326
A .458 500gr Hornady FMJ bullet recover from an elephant. The bullet has deformed and the lead core partially jut out. I could not observe the same thing with the .510 535gr Woodleigh FMJ bullets with which I shot some elephants.

As far as the mentioned bullet from Woodleigh is concerned, the jacket of this bullet broke once after I gave the final shot a buffalo with my rifle caliber 12,7x70 Schüler at very short distance. I sent the bullet to Woodleigh and they attributed the breaking to an alloy error. Premium bullets or similar can also sometimes fail. I still have stayed to this bullet and the company Woodleigh in general.

From memory the Woodleigh Solids have lead core covered with steel and this has a copper coating on it. They are a few though smaller in diameter then the same calibre Soft Nose as there is not as much give as a straight copper jacket.

 

[grand veneur]

That may have been the case at one time, but as far as I can remember my broken bullet, and according to Woodleigh, the FMJ bullet has a jacket of copper-zinc alloy.

Full Metal Jacket - Woodleigh Bullets

Woodleigh Bullets - Premium Bullets for All Game

www.woodleighbullets.com.au

 

[grand veneur]

Our more or less beloved TIG and TUG bullets from Brenneke have a nickel platted steel jacket. I don't know whether you can call it premium bullets or not.

 

[K95]

I wouldn’t call them premium bullets as they both loose up to 50%when driven at magnum velocities.

 

[mark-hunter]

My definition of premium bullet is: monolithic, partition, or bonded.
Everything else is non-premium.

 

[Tam Dl]

I was reading this issue of Rifle with Seyfried's recipe for the pro's rifle, and I noticed an ad for the Nosler Ballistic Tip, which is non-premium, cup and core bullet, with a cherry on top, right? Kenny Jarret said in the ad that it was the bullet around which he designed his well respected rifles and that it takes Whitetails down like nothing else.

 

[mark-hunter]

Kenny Jarret said in the ad that it was the bullet around which he designed his well respected rifles and that it takes Whitetails down like nothing else.

This bullet is rapid expansion type, for thin skinned medium size animals. It drops roe deer (60 pounds) like hammer. Designed probably for white tail, which same size as fallow deer - same effect.

Plastic tip initiates rapid expansion, front part is hollow (with plastic tip), this moves center of gravity aft, and increases precision. It has a boat tail, that improves BC.
If carefully reloaded, accuracy that can be achieved is match grade (sub moa).

Since we are on African hunting forum. Rapid expansion of this type of bullet does not go well with penetration.
This bullet I would not recommend for African PG safari.
Some PG animals are tough. And big. (Zebra, eland, Giraffe, followed by roan, sable, kudu, blue wildebeest, etc)

For same reason it is also not for large wild European boar. (speaking of shoulder shots, and driven hunts)

 

[Rule 303]

That may have been the case at one time, but as far as I can remember my broken bullet, and according to Woodleigh, the FMJ bullet has a jacket of copper-zinc alloy.

Full Metal Jacket - Woodleigh Bullets

Woodleigh Bullets - Premium Bullets for All Game

www.woodleighbullets.com.au

Yep the add says they are steel jacketed. Now I will have to section one just to see what the jacket looks like and it's thickness.

Mark-Hunter I agree with your definition of Premium Bullets.

 

[Velo Dog]

Round Nosed Soft.

 

[mark-hunter]

Dangerous game hunting and rental rifles.

For those who took rental rifle in the camp and hunted dangerous game - what bullets were given to you?

 

[grand veneur]

I was so far in the last thirty years on buffalo hunting three times with a rental rifle. It was in two times a rifle caliber 375 H&H magnum, one with 17,65g/272gr Hirtenberger ABC bullets, the other with 300gr Swift A-Frame bullets, and in one time a rifle caliber 416 Rem Mag with 400gr Swift A-Frame and 400gr Barnes banded solid bullets.

 

[375Fox]

Dangerous game hunting and rental rifles.

For those who took rental rifle in the camp and hunted dangerous game - what bullets were given to you?

From what I’ve seen it’s whatever they acquired from previous clients. My ammo didn’t arrive in Cameroon. I took a buffalo with 375 federal non-bonded soft points and was glad to have them. There were also several hornady DGX. The 416 my PH carried that also doubled as a camp rifle had Barnes TSX. In Namibia I asked for my PH to bring extra 375 ammo in case something similar happened, I believe he had Nosler partitions for me. In Zimbabwe the next client with my PH using 375 H&H was likely going to be using trophy bonded bear claws.

 

[DLSJR]

Bullets are absolutely, bar none, the smallest expense on any African hunt. There is no good argument to shoot non-premium bullets, except simple ignorance.

I just returned from a hunt and here are a few bullets I recovered.

400 grain .416 Trophy Bonded Bearclaw taken from buffalo, shot at about 100 yards.

400 grain .416 Cutting Edge solid taken from hippo, shot at 40 yards. This bullet penetrated a bit over 4 feet, including through about 18” of spine on hard quartering away shot. We found it lodged at base of the skull. I could reload it and use it again.

Each of those bullets run about $4.00.

 

[mdwest]

Dangerous game hunting and rental rifles.

For those who took rental rifle in the camp and hunted dangerous game - what bullets were given to you?

375 H&H, 300gr Swift a-frames (my ph loads his own and keeps a pretty good stash on hand)…

Same rifle and same ammo was used by my wife when she took her buff as well…

 

[Hunter-Habib]

View attachment 557325
F.l.t.r., .458 500gr Hornady FMJ, .458 500gr Hornady Interbond, .440/11,2mm 401gr Woodleigh RN SN

I once used with the cartridge 11,2x72 Schüler the 11,2mm Woodleigh 401gr SP bullet to shot a buffalo. Although it broke up in the animal's body, it killed it. I was able to observe the same thing with the cartridge 10,75x68 and the .423/10,75mm RWS 22,5g FMJ bullet on two buffalos. Such bullets are certainly no more suitable nowadays for buffalo hunting, let alone elephant hunting. I never used bullets like that again.

View attachment 557326
A .458 500gr Hornady FMJ bullet recover from an elephant. The bullet has deformed and the lead core partially jut out. I could not observe the same thing with the .510 535gr Woodleigh FMJ bullets with which I shot some elephants.

As far as the mentioned bullet from Woodleigh is concerned, the jacket of this bullet broke once after I gave the final shot a buffalo with my rifle caliber 12,7x70 Schüler at very short distance. I sent the bullet to Woodleigh and they attributed the breaking to an alloy error. Premium bullets or similar can also sometimes fail. I still have stayed to this bullet and the company Woodleigh in general.

Hey, those are the good old Hornady round nosed steel jacketed FMJ solids. Very good stuff. Remington used to load them from 1982-1993 in their 300Gr FMJ factory loads for the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum.

 

[PerH]

As mentioned elsewhere the way the Oryx in .358 Norma broke up , I and the game would been better off with a 250 Speer Grand Slam or Hornady SP instead .

 

[K95]

As mentioned elsewhere the way the Oryx in .358 Norma broke up , I and the game would been better off with a 250 Speer Grand Slam or Hornady SP instead .

There you go, I have only had brilliant results with the Oryx in 9.3 and 375 cal. This bullet penetrated 5’ of muscle and spine, in a perfect straight line and weighed 88% of original weight.

 

[matt vejar]

Sometimes the slogan is true - for Core- Lokts - “ the deadliest mushroom in the forest”.