Why is it that when it comes to the big British Gun Makers, Rigby are the only brand that offers "affordable" models?

[Hunter-Habib]

Actually H&H did exactly this in the shotgun world on more than one occasion. It has not gone well. When your business is hand work that puts in excess of 1,000 hours into a weapon, it is difficult to make a weapon with a significant amount of machine work. Their last entry was the sporting O/U that utilizes CNC machining. When it first came out it was priced at less than half of a ‘Royal’ at a mere $35,000. It’s has since climbed into the stratosphere. Earlier attempts were basically Birmingham boxlocks.

What Rigby has managed, with the two levels to their brand, is outstanding. They are the first London company that I am aware of to be successful in doing so.

Oh, I remember those Holland & Holland shotguns well @WAB

The first was the Northwood model. Basically a Webley & Scott Model 700 which was shot & regulated by Holland & Holland at their shooting grounds.

The second was the Cavalier model. Built by Holland & Holland on salvaged Webley & Scott Model 700 actions.

 

[Borderer]

Actually, looking in to Daniel Fraser, they also offer a range of M98 rifles at a very similar price to the Highland Stalker and a synthetic stocked version at a considerably lower price, so fortunately, Rigby aren't the only old name still producing a lower priced British rifle. Not the criticise Rigby in any way, but the more rifles made in a traditional British way, the better for the UK gun trade

 

[Pondoro]

@Pondoro

100% spot on. I was never dismissive towards your assessment of the Beesley self opening action but I never really thought about it much. Last year, I was in London for a week and had an opportunity to visit the James Purdey & Sons shop at Audley House. They had a .470 Nitro Express sidelock ejector in the cabinet which I handled.

Good heavens ! You were right. The thing was a beast of a tool to open quickly. Definitely not good when hunting elephant in the jesse (your addiction) or hippopotamus bull in the sugarcane fields at night (my addiction). You can definitely tell that the people at James Purdey & Sons have little field experience with hunting dangerous game. Which is why they designed their double rifles to operate on the same mechanism as their driven grouse shotguns (where a loader reloads one shotgun from a matched pair while the shooter blazes away with the other shotgun).

P.S: An Australian friend owns a bolt action James Purdey & sons rifle in .375 Holland & Holland Magnum. The bolt gets stuck when firing 300Gr RWS Kegelspitze cone point factory loads in it. Didn’t you once have similar problems with RWS Kegelspitze cone points ?

Your memory is excellent Habib..I shot some that RWS factory 300Gr Kegelspitz ammo in my ZKK 602..some 30 years ago.. They appeared grossly overloaded, very heavy recoil and muzzle blast, had to force the bolt open after every shot. I did not dare using them after that. I have never experienced such with any other .375H&H factory ammo ever since, even in 40 degrees in Africa.

 

[Borderer]

I think the issue we have here, is that there is almost no home market for rifles built in the UK.

I would guess 80% of the rifles here are either Sako, Tikka and Howa. Traditional rifles are seriously out of fashion. If you buy or lease stalking, the chances are that you have to use a silencer and if on the hill, a bipod. All does a job but spoils the look a bit! There is also a tiny market in the UK and a strong political will against anything firearms related.

Coupled with that, the UK manufacturing sector is virtually dead. I can only see it getting worse with the steep taxes introduced on businesses and employers at the end of last year.

From what I can see, there is a lower level of Firearms manufacturing in the UK catering to wealthy people here, such as Longthorne shotguns, Rigby Highland Stalker etc. And a much higher level catering to the super wealthy, such as Holland and Holland, Purley etc.

In my personal opinion, it was the mass appeal of Rigby, affordable to a middle income man in 1920 that has created it's legendry status, like the Winchester 70. It is interesting to note that Walter Bell ended his career as a Winchester fan.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Actually, looking in to Daniel Fraser, they also offer a range of M98 rifles at a very similar price to the Highland Stalker and a synthetic stocked version at a considerably lower price, so fortunately, Rigby aren't the only old name still producing a lower priced British rifle. Not the criticise Rigby in any way, but the more rifles made in a traditional British way, the better for the UK gun trade

Hey, weren’t they also building some rifles on salvaged Mannlicher Schoenauer actions ? Chambered in 7x57mm Mauser, .308 Winchester and .30-06 Springfield.

 

[Borderer]

Yes, they are. There is one in 308 in my local gun shop at the moment.

Hey, weren’t they also building some rifles on salvaged Mannlicher Schoenauer actions ? Chambered in 7x57mm Mauser, .308 Winchester and .30-06 Springfield.

 

[PerH]

And it’s German not English , but Hartmann&Weiss is comparable to many best guns , but considerably lower in price compared to.

And most of Rigby and WR bolt rifles were partially made in Germany also .

 

[Huvius]

The Rigby Mausers (std action) in the ‘30s cost +/- $250, an equivalent of about $5500 in today’s dollars.
So, one might think that these were affordable rifles until you also consider that the average wage earner in America at that time brought home less than $1000 per year.
So, entry level Rigby Mausers are actually historically pretty inexpensive today although not as well finished as a vintage example.
Which brings me to another point.
A new Highland Stalker costs as much or more than a good condition vintage Rigby yet there seems to be a strong market for them. Why is that?
I know which I would chose but the broader buying market seems to be convinced that there is some benefit to buying a new rifle over a vintage rifle.
Will the ubiquity of Rigby HS rifles on the near new market become their undoing? I think it could.
Maybe the other high end makers in the UK were just a little behind the curve and decided that they would cede that ground to Rigby which has a better and more economical supply chain as well as a greater advertising budget.

 

[Northern Shooter]

This thread has only reinforced my interest in the Rigby brand and has sold me on on buying one of their “poor-rich-man” models.

Now the only question is Highland Stalker or Big Game? It would have to be in either 275 or 416 Rigby.

 

[Huvius]

I’ll volunteer here to push back.
Hope I’m not the only one on AH thinking along these lines…
First, the notion that it is incumbent upon a buyer to travel to insure that an item is as described is ridiculous.
In any other instance, when purchasing any other high priced good, one relies upon the description in committing to the purchase.
I buy an appliance and it comes damaged, I demand a replacement or an adjustment in the price and that is the expectation on both sides of the deal.
This is an international forum and deals are done regularly between parties that obviate the possibility of in person inspection. This is the case in the art world, the jewelry world, any place that real money is being exchanged for valuable goods.
As I said before, the onus in being a responsible seller is to accurately describe the item you are offering.
In this instance, that did not happen and now has been aired out on an an open forum for better or for worse.
There is a lesson for everyone here.

 

[dogcat1]

Guys,
Thanks for the doctorate on rifles and makers. I learned more reading this than I could have researched in a week.
I have owned several Rigby's, used a Purdey and one Westley Richards. Honestly, I really cannot tell any difference in accuracy, function or "fineness". I am not an expert so be aware.
As to owning and shooting "quality" or "premier", I have also used mostly out of the box Model 70's, HS Precision, Sako (pre-Garcia) and a couple of Remingtons. They all shoot. They all shoot well. They all work fine.

I like them all but actually prefer the new Model 70 actions and the Blaser's the best. They are accurate, reliable and easy to use.

What the owners of Blaser etal and Purdey and a host of other custom/high end gun makers do is adopt the philosophy that the upper level clientele are easier to sell to and deal with than most of the rest of us. The profit margin is high and they intentionally keep to supply low to create demand - think about how the diamond markets. There is no shortage of diamonds as the market is manipulated to keep the prices up.

I think the same thing is out there in the gun markets. The mid level guns - Heym, Blaser, Rigby Stalker, a host of customs meet that need out there for "nice" guns at a good price point.

So, buy what you like. Shoot it. Have no regrets.

 

[Huvius]

I’ll volunteer here to push back.
Hope I’m not the only one on AH thinking along these lines…
First, the notion that it is incumbent upon a buyer to travel to insure that an item is as described is ridiculous.
In any other instance, when purchasing any other high priced good, one relies upon the description in committing to the purchase.
I buy an appliance and it comes damaged, I demand a replacement or an adjustment in the price and that is the expectation on both sides of the deal.
This is an international forum and deals are done regularly between parties that obviate the possibility of in person inspection. This is the case in the art world, the jewelry world, any place that real money is being exchanged for valuable goods.
As I said before, the onus in being a responsible seller is to accurately describe the item you are offering.
In this instance, that did not happen and now has been aired out on an an open forum for better or for worse.
There is a lesson for everyone here.

Sorry for the confusion.
I accidentally posted this reply on the wrong thread.
If a moderator could delete this I’d be much obliged! LOL!!

 

[WAB]

I’ll volunteer here to push back.
Hope I’m not the only one on AH thinking along these lines…
First, the notion that it is incumbent upon a buyer to travel to insure that an item is as described is ridiculous.
In any other instance, when purchasing any other high priced good, one relies upon the description in committing to the purchase.
I buy an appliance and it comes damaged, I demand a replacement or an adjustment in the price and that is the expectation on both sides of the deal.
This is an international forum and deals are done regularly between parties that obviate the possibility of in person inspection. This is the case in the art world, the jewelry world, any place that real money is being exchanged for valuable goods.
As I said before, the onus in being a responsible seller is to accurately describe the item you are offering.
In this instance, that did not happen and now has been aired out on an an open forum for better or for worse.
There is a lesson for everyone here.

Are you sure you’re replying to the right thread? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Huvius]

Are you sure you’re replying to the right thread? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

That response was for the sour deal on the Paso Robles Rigby double on another thread. Just pasted it in the wrong thread.

I guess it can be said that the current Rigby is a sight better than that particular episode in the Rigby story.