Wiener Schnappenmontage Bases Wanted

[Brian Rothhammer]

Hi
I’ve had a Reichert scope with Weiner Schnappenmontage mounts in it for many years and hope to find the rife bases so I can put it on a vintage MS or Styer rifle. Anyone have a set ?

The gentlemen above have offered you some excellent information / advice.

That offered by Red Leg in post #13 pretty well sums it up:
In this case, if I understood properly, we have a scope in search of a rifle. This is a different matter entirely. EAW will NOT help you here.

There are really no "rifle bases" for the Vienna mount. As I said (and showed), the "rear mount" is simply a drilled and tapped screw.

The front mount is some sort of "catch", hand milled, and mounted on the rifle. It can take many forms, and is always hand made. Do NOT use the method where a groove is placed in the receiver and then a piece is driven in. That is unkind to an old rifle. If you find one like that, we can advise, but don't do it.

I would say with certainty that the scope and mount shown in your original post was configured for a Mannlicher Schoenauer as evidenced by the offset rear mount. On a Mauser there was no reason for such offset.

These were mounted by guild shops in the Steyr area for MS ordered as such from the factory or were mounted by gunsmiths post purchase. As such, the particulars of the mounts vary greatly.

To find a rifle with 'matching bases' would require either extraordinary luck, a physical selection of multiple MS with 'snapper' bases on which to test fit the scope, or both.

There are many MS with 'snapper' bases that lack scopes, but the likelihood of spacing and height matching that of your front clasp and rear hook is remote at best. You'd likely need to drill and tap a second location for the 'hook', which wouldn't be so bad as the other hole could be filled with a flush screw. That front clasp may have been mounted to a dovetail cut through the receiver, judging by the height of your front mount. Height will be critical for scope alignment and 'sighting in', which was an expensive operation even when the MS were new. The 1939 Stoeger catalog offered, as 'cost option' added to purchase of a new MS rifle or stutzen, "Telescopic mount and shooting in, exclusive of cost of 'scope... $35.00." That $35 of 1939 equates to $702.02 today per usinflationcalculator.

Consider also that the receiver of an M1924 or later 'High Velocity' is longer than that of previous models. For which was your scope configured?

In summation, if you were to acquire a pre WW2 Mannlicher Schoenauer that already has the mounts for a 'snapper' with the front mount dovetailed into the receiver, you may be able to have your scope mounted to it by someone who is an expert at mounting and aligning scopes to early MS. They would likely need to fabricate a new 'catch' at the front and properly locate the rear screw.

Otherwise you're in search of a lot of unnecessary pain and suffering to both self and an innocent Mannlicher Schoenauer.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Here is a bit that I recently posted to another 'site in reply to a general query regarding 'Vienna Snapper' mounts on a Mannlicher Schoenauer:

Quote:

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Question: Am I correct that Vienna mounts are silver soldered to the scope tube? Is this something that is done at Steyr or at the scope manufacturer? Or at a third party gunsmith who then fits the mounts to the firearm?

Until I found this 1903 I didn't know Vienna mounts existed.

Thanks......

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It is my understanding that when a Mannlicher Schoenauer rifle or stutzen was ordered from Steyr with mounted telescopic sight during the period prior to the Second World War that mounts and scopes were installed by guild shops in the Steyr area, not at the factory of Oesterr. Waffenfabr. Ges. Steyr (Steyr Werke after 1926). This may account for variance in the particular mounts and methods used while being essentially alike.

Member Kuduae could likely provide more precise information. If so, I would trust any such details for accuracy as Herr Eichendorff is very well acquainted with the history of MS and other early 20th Century Continental firearms.

My 1922 proofed M1910 Take Down Model wears a claw mounted Gerard B that may have been installed in England (as the rifle bears English proofs) or at Ceylon where it was purchased 'second hand' by my Grandfather in late 1931. As the front mount is dovetailed to the barrel rather than saddle mounted I presume it to be an 'aftermarket' installation.

From 1939 Stoeger Catalog

Post WW2 Steyr 'factory' mounts (also from Stoeger)

Various images, swiped from the 'net, of 'Vienna Snapper' mounts in no particular order:

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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

A post from further down the thread by Kuduae:

As Rothhammer1 posted a link to my old doublegunshop post above, I repost a slightly updated version here:
The photo, posted here again, shows my M24 rifle and two scopes with Vienna style snap-on mounts, a Kahles, Vienna "Mignon 4x" on top, now on a M-S M1905, and a Kahles "Heliavier 4x" below. The Heliavier sits on top of my M1924 Mannlicher-Schoenauer in 30-06.

Here is another Heliavier on another Mannlicher Schoenauer:

and a third one (a Zeiss "Zielvier", but same dimensions):

Note: though the scopes are the same size and all three are mounted with the three-legged Vienna style snapper mounts on M1924 Mannlicher-Schoenauers, all three mounts differ in detail. These mounts were offered pre-WW2 by Steyr as a "factory option", but apparently they were handmade by outworkers/ gunsmithes outside the factory. Nothing is interchangeable. These mounts were all serial numbered to the rifles. There is no current source for these mounts. All you can do is to scrounge up such mounts and scope at gunshows or on ebay or egun and handfile the missing parts to fit the tops to your gun bases. The mounts are usually soldered to the scope tubes, sometimes even brazed, as I found out to my dismay. So you need someone able to completely dis-and reassemble these old scopes first. And, these Vienna Schn�ppermontagen are not the best mounts anyhow when it comes to stability and durability. Usually, windage adjustment can only be done by hammer and drift punch, slightly moving the front base in the desired direction. So a simpler approach is to remove the existing bases, store them for later collector purposes and fit modern bases into the existing cuts.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

The scope is high enough that the iron sites are still useable. and if you take it off, you can use the Lyman 36.

Don't you mean Lyman 1A?

 

[SaintPanzer]

Sure. Let me go back and look at it. I'd thought I saw a "36" stamped on it... but I make mistakes like that when I'm tired, and it's been a long week.

 

[SaintPanzer]

The gentlemen above have offered you some excellent information / advice.

That offered by Red Leg in post #13 pretty well sums it up:
In this case, if I understood properly, we have a scope in search of a rifle. This is a different matter entirely. EAW will NOT help you here.

Sir, I respectfully submit that perhaps you may have mis-attributed this insight?

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Sir, I respectfully submit that perhaps you may have mis-attributed this insight?

So I have; my apologies, sir.

Make it "That offered by SaintPanzer in post #13 pretty well sums it up..."

 

[rigbymauser]

There is a few German or Austrian Master gunsmith that can still make scopemounts and bases from scrats. If one wants to stay loyal to the timeperiod of when the gun was made there is no other way out. Sometimes older long established gunsmith may have the parts laying somewhere.
Through my estimate(from projects with gunsmiths) to copy a complete set of vintage scopemount system can run into several 1000s dollars.