Would you hunt with a operator hunting illegaly?

[Aaron N]

In most cases that’s going to be a question of ethics, not one of legality…

I feel like I remember reading here it was illegal in RSA, maybe it’s province by province? I could be wrong though, I usually am

 

[Sourdough]

No.

And outfitters operating illegally exist in the U.S. as well as other countries.

 

[375Fox]

Everyone is going to say No, but a lot of illegal and semi-legal hunts have taken place over years especially when price is right. The best deal is often too good to be true. I’ll be interested to hear your stories.

 

[R.M.C.]

No to the question but I would like an example or two of something specific. I'm sure an average guy could be dooped into doing all kinds of stuff if he didn't know the laws, the area , or anything. Id be worried about breaking any laws in a country I did not reside in , unknowingly or knowingly. I'm curious to read about the examples you are going to bring up.

 

[Hunt anything]

I feel like I remember reading here it was illegal in RSA, maybe it’s province by province? I could be wrong though, I usually am

If it is A LOT of shows on TV are evidence it’s pretty much ignored.

 

[Aaron N]

If it is A LOT of shows on TV are evidence it’s pretty much ignored.

I did find a summary of laws for South Africa put out by SCI in 2008 which says no hunting using a motorized vehicle.

 

[375Fox]

There should be a distinction made between an illegal hunt and a possibly less than legal method. I don’t care about shooting from truck, using a 9.3 instead of a 375, etc. I think this thread we be about hunts without proper authorizations, hunts in areas in ownership disputes, outside PHs offering hunts through corrupt officials. Those are stories I’d like to hear not whether shooting off truck is legal.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

In most cases that’s going to be a question of ethics, not one of legality…

This is not ethics, I am talking about law and what can happen to and your trophies.
Many of you who read this will be aware of the Lacey act and how severe the penalties can be one of my stories will be specically about that subject.

 

[Ridge Runner]

How many of us have shot from a bakkie?

I'll admit I have. It was my gemsbok. The first shot was made while on a 1/2 mile stock following the herd at around 150 yards. My PH watched and said it was a good shot. We approached the herd expecting to find the gemsbok on the ground. It wasn't so made a second angling away shot that again my PH said was a good shot. As we approached expecting to see the gemsbok on the ground, again it took off running into a deep ravine. We followed the gemsbok and my PH's tracker met us with the bakkie. Only way to get a finishing shot on the gemsbok was from the elevation afforded by the bakki.

 

[jimmywallstreet]

No to the question, but I am anxious to hear your stories

 

[Hunt anything]

I did find a summary of laws for South Africa put out by SCI in 2008 which says no hunting using a motorized vehicle.

View attachment 561881

According to this hunting blue duiker with dogs and shotguns is illegal. Seen that plenty of times and cape grysbok at night as well on TV.

 

[Hunt anything]

Maybe things have changed since 2008

 

[Osama Mahdi]

In this regard and if applicable I would like to know the circumstances relating to the Cecil the lion story from the people who knew the details.
What exactly was wrong or any illegal actions?

 

[mark-hunter]

I have given a lot of thought to even starting this post. I have reached a stage in my life where I would like to bring a few things to light. That some members especially the average working guy, who we always directed our hunts too.I will be posting a few stories. As far as I know I will not mention any sponsors.

If you consider the number of military coup d etat in numerous countries in Africa, one must ask is there a state of law in Africa, and which country represents that state of law in Africa?
Yes, South Africa and Namibia, function well from the point of view of average international hunter, but the things get blurred elsewhere.

Then you have in other countries legal option for the hunt, in 6 figure cost, and in the same time local population have average income like 200 usd per month.
There is discrepancy in added value for a hunt or animal, and I am certain that locals can hunt legally or illegally for much less money, or for free. Where is a line there between legal and illegals'?

I know a guy, who "legally" hunted in Kenya in 1990. And hunting there was banned in 1977.
And he took trophies home - I have seen them. Kongoni, Grant, Tommy...

So, Africa is mess, and we need to define what is "legal".
Similar to Kenya, shalll we compare Sudan. There is no beaten path to go there hunting, but nobody can tell me there is no hunting there at all, and I am sure there must be some regulations in force, at least on paper.

In my opinion, there are few possible definitions.
Definition 1: legal hunt means legally exportable trophies. High price.
Definition 2: legal hunt within boundaries of llocal aw, with or without exportable trophies. Hunt with locals.

African countries "not open for hunting". Another view,

Do we really think that just because, that we as foreign hunters have no way of going to some African country to hunt, that there is really no hunting for local population?
Hardly. There is some form of hunting.

Yes there is. But we have no formal access to it.
But if there is, would we go for some hunt with locals, with or without exportable trophies.

So, legal hunt must be defined, and then we can discuss it.

 

[Hunt anything]

If you consider the number of military coup d etat in numerous countries in Africa, one must ask is there a state of law in Africa, and which country represents that state of law in Africa?
Yes, South Africa and Namibia, function well from the point of view of average international hunter, but the things get blurred elsewhere.

Then you have in other countries legal option for the hunt, in 6 figure cost, and in the same time local population have average income like 200 usd per month.
There is discrepancy in added value for a hunt or animal, and I am certain that locals can hunt legally or illegally for much less money, or for free. Where is a line there between legal and illegals'?

I know a guy, who "legally" hunted in Kenya in 1990. And hunting there was banned in 1977.
And he took trophies home - I have seen them. Kongoni, Grant, Tommy...

So, Africa is mess, and we need to define what is "legal".
Similar to Kenya, shalll we compare Sudan. There is no beaten path to go there hunting, but nobody can tell me there is no hunting there at all, and I am sure there must be some regulations in force, at least on paper.

In my opinion, there are few possible definitions.
Definition 1: legal hunt means legally exportable trophies. High price.
Definition 2: legal hunt within boundaries of llocal aw, with or without exportable trophies. Hunt with locals.

African countries "not open for hunting". Another view,

Do we really think that just because, that we as foreign hunters have no way of going to some African country to hunt, that there is really no hunting for local population?
Hardly. There is some form of hunting.

Yes there is. But we have no formal access to it.
But if there is, would we go for some hunt with locals, with or without exportable trophies.

So, legal hunt must be defined, and then we can discuss it.

I agree with most of your premis but as an American it is legal for me to hunt a CBL but illegal for me to bring it home so is my hunt legal or illegal? Same with elephant from Mozambique.

 

[mark-hunter]

I agree with most of your premis but as an American it is legal for me to hunt a CBL but illegal for me to bring it home so is my hunt legal or illegal? Same with elephant from Mozambique.

I have problem with trophies taking too much space at home.

And I am coming more and more to the level of being willing to hunt, without option to bring trophy home.
So, home country ban on import, becomes more and more irrelevant to me.
I am more and more looking for affordable hunts, not for importable trophies.

 

[Graham Hunter]

I did find a summary of laws for South Africa put out by SCI in 2008 which says no hunting using a motorized vehicle.

View attachment 561881

No luring with any calls. Seems this one get ignored often.

 

[Charles de Ribeau]

I have given a lot of thought to even starting this post. I have reached a stage in my life where I would like to bring a few things to light. That some members especially the average working guy, who we always directed our hunts too.I will be posting a few stories. As far as I know I will not mention any sponsors.

Lon

Absolutely not!

 

[WAB]

Not intentionally, no. However, as traveling hunters we have to rely on the PH to know and adhere to all local laws.

Before this thread gets too detailed, I think it best to remind everyone that this is an open forum on the internet. Not everyone reading these posts will have our best interests at heart. I suggest you exercise good judgement in what you post.

 

[Rare Breed]

I have given a lot of thought to even starting this post. I have reached a stage in my life where I would like to bring a few things to light. That some members especially the average working guy, who we always directed our hunts too.I will be posting a few stories. As far as I know I will not mention any sponsors.

Lon

No I rarely use the word never but in this case never!!! The person, Lon who has started this thread through my research of both he and his wife are beyond reproach. True professionals in every way. It is truly a privalige and honor hunting with them this April