30-06 165 grn TTSX fast enough

[matt85]

My own personal requirement for Barnes bullets is an impact speed of 2000fps or greater. I would use a ballistics calculator to determine my maximum range based off this requirement.

 

[Puddle]

I used factory loaded 168s in my 30-06 on one hunt and handloaded for another in Namibia with approximately the same speed (Barnes claims 2800 on their Vor-TX ammo). Zero issues with eight animals if memory serves me right. Two were kudu, one gemsbok and a zebra for the bigger stuff. Nothing went more than a couple steps.

According to Barnes the 168 has a better ogive for the 30-06 and 308, while the 165 is more for the 300 mags. But if it shoots well, don't change it.

The Barnes Vor-TX 168 grain TTSX factory ammo is consistent ammo. My last 10-round test about a month ago resulted in an average MV of 2,779 fps from a .30-06 24 inch barrel.

 

[wildwilderness]

The 165 going 2700 fps based on it’s ballistics will still be going 1840 fps at 400 yds.

So as long as you don’t shoot something past that range it should be fine. (The LRX bullets claim 1600 fps for adequate expansion)

 

[FlyGuy]

2700 is enough for Bushveld distances. (< 300m)
I’ve only fiddled with the 168gr TSX in my 30-06, but got to 2750 with VV N550 at slightly over book max and a longer COAL. No pressure issues in my rifle.

I need to play with the 168gr TTSX at some point.

 

[Puddle]

Just happened to finish loading today the 168gr TTSX to Barnes' maximum published load using Ramshot Big Game. My .30-06 24" barrel is pretty darn smooth inside, so it just might reach ~2,870 fps.
I'll find out next week. Wherever the barrel finds its happy place with this load, it's intended for Namibian plains game.

 

[Shifty05]

I’m loading some 165 grain TTSX ,for my wife’s 30-06 for our upcoming trip. They are shooting great! They are running at about 2700fps @ muzzle. Is this fast enough?
Plains game up to Kudu.

I’ve shot factory 150s out of my Ruger mark 2 at around 3000 to 3050 depending on which box. I feel like losing that much velocity for 15 more grains isn’t helping things out. I know that my experience with copper is the faster the better. Often times I feel like they’re more devestating then soft point lead rounds under 150 yards. However beyond 300 yards they tend to lack much in the expansion department. My experiences have been with deer and black bear.
150s I feel are money in and 06 and 180s in a 300win when it comes to barnes and 30 cal offerings

 

[Stig]

Just as a quick heads up.. There seems to be some evidence that the 168 gr. bullet you can buy for reloading are harder/tougher than the bullet used in Barnes own ammunition. There is a thread on the Norwegian forum Kammeret whith extensive testing of many different bullets. Here is a snapshot from a test done on Barnes own ammunition and bullets available to the reloader. Shot at 600ms ( about 200fps)

Barnes ammunition on the left, reloaded ammunition on the right.

 

[BeeMaa]

Let me start by saying I don’t reload. I buy Barnes factory loads for our 300 WM and use the 165 grain TTSX. They leave the barrel above 3000 fps so anything inside 500 yards will produce excellent expansion.

IMO - Dropping to the 150 grain TTSX would up your speed for good expansion and extend your range a bit. In truth, you are not likely to get a green light from the PH on shots over 200 yards. They want to keep the game as close as possible with most shots well under 150 yards.

Your load is good for all PG animals with proper shot placement. Practice off sticks as often as you can.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Yes, a lighter bullet may give enough velocity to reach way out there but will it still have enough energy to make the copper bullet open up? And what happens to a 150 gr 3K fps copper bullet when it smacks into a kudu at sixty yards or less? Will it come apart? Will it stay on track after impact? Will it make a mess of the animal? Yes, I know these days bang-flop is everything and we are not supposed to care about wasting meat, but I was raised differently ... by a guy who grew up during the Depression.

I hunt with 180 gr cup and core 30-06 or 165 gr premium bullets. I prefer the latter in Africa but used 165 gr Hornady cup and core last trip when loading components were scarce. Worked okay but only four animals taken and fairly close range. I guess the springbuck was about two hundred yards but not much to them anyway.

 

[skydiver386]

As long as your rifle has a twist rate of 1 turn in 10 inches or faster, on game terminal performance will be fine down to 1800fps velocity.

 

[meigsbucks]

I used 180gr TSX @@ 2600 fps in Namibia. Gave excellent performance on springbok, zebra and gemsbok. Did hit a steinbok in the off shoulder, practically blowing it in half…. My bad.

 

[Shifty05]

Yes, a lighter bullet may give enough velocity to reach way out there but will it still have enough energy to make the copper bullet open up? And what happens to a 150 gr 3K fps copper bullet when it smacks into a kudu at sixty yards or less? Will it come apart? Will it stay on track after impact? Will it make a mess of the animal? Yes, I know these days bang-flop is everything and we are not supposed to care about wasting meat, but I was raised differently ... by a guy who grew up during the Depression.

I hunt with 180 gr cup and core 30-06 or 165 gr premium bullets. I prefer the latter in Africa but used 165 gr Hornady cup and core last trip when loading components were scarce. Worked okay but only four animals taken and fairly close range. I guess the springbuck was about two hundred yards but not much to them anyway.

I would say that the 150s are me coming from a stand point of I want a bang flop every time. I get to track animals with archery hunting a little too much. It’s relaxing going rifle hunting in that aspect.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I

I would say that the 150s are me coming from a stand point of I want a bang flop every time. I get to track animals with archery hunting a little too much. It’s relaxing going rifle hunting in that aspect.

I'm not sure why you would think a lighter 30-06 bullet will give you better bang flop, especially at longer distance. It MAY give you flatter trajectory but if shots are two hundred yards or less, flat trajectory is almost immaterial. 150 gr might be okay for springbuck or blesbuck, but gemsbuck, zebra, kudu, and wildebeest definitely not enough in my opinion. Those are tough customers! For those species you could have a tough time getting an exit wound in boiler room with even 165 gr premium bullets. I don't see a 150 gr making it all the way through. And that weight bullet certainly won't have enough oomph to knock them off their feet unless hit in CNS (brain or spine). You would be better served with old fashion 180 cup and core.

 

[Ryan]

I

I'm not sure why you would think a lighter 30-06 bullet will give you better bang flop, especially at longer distance. It MAY give you flatter trajectory but if shots are two hundred yards or less, flat trajectory is almost immaterial. 150 gr might be okay for springbuck or blesbuck, but gemsbuck, zebra, kudu, and wildebeest definitely not enough in my opinion. Those are tough customers! For those species you could have a tough time getting an exit wound in boiler room with even 165 gr premium bullets. I don't see a 150 gr making it all the way through. And that weight bullet certainly won't have enough oomph to knock them off their feet unless hit in CNS (brain or spine). You would be better served with old fashion 180 cup and core.

We're at the splitting hair stage these threads, but what the hey, let's keep going.
I'm with @Ontario Hunter, a 165 or 168 will cause "bang flop" results. I witnessed it using 168s with my own two kudu, a gemsbok, a red hartebeest and a zebra on the bigger side of plains game. All the animals but one of those kudu were in the 100-120 yard range, which is pretty common for PG. The first kudu was maybe 40 yards. Of those the zebra went the farthest, maybe 10 yards. Maybe. As for pass through, well I have to disagree with you there. All of these were hit well in the vital area and still did the usual pass through monometal bullets are known for with the exception of the zebra. It had a quartering shot facing towards me, which broke the front leg. And the bullet still went through everything vital diagonally and ended up on the far side hide looking like the bullets in ads. I still have that bullet.

Incidentally, I don't dislike the 150s. I loaded them up for my second 30-06 and they work stellar on caribou bulls, which also have pass through. I honestly bet they'd be fine on a kudu, perhaps not a pass through, tough to say. But not any better.

 

[Shifty05]

I

I'm not sure why you would think a lighter 30-06 bullet will give you better bang flop, especially at longer distance. It MAY give you flatter trajectory but if shots are two hundred yards or less, flat trajectory is almost immaterial. 150 gr might be okay for springbuck or blesbuck, but gemsbuck, zebra, kudu, and wildebeest definitely not enough in my opinion. Those are tough customers! For those species you could have a tough time getting an exit wound in boiler room with even 165 gr premium bullets. I don't see a 150 gr making it all the way through. And that weight bullet certainly won't have enough oomph to knock them off their feet unless hit in CNS (brain or spine). You would be better served with old fashion 180 cup and core.

First off with the velocities stated the 150 will have 400 foot pounds more energy at 200 yards than the 165s
Barnes or others may advertise its expansion is down to 1800 and others say 2000 but where they really shine is 2500fps and above. I really do not understand the use for copper ammo unless your like me and the government forces it upon you. Partitions, accubonds etc so many great lead options.

 

[Edster]

Bullets were on right are 308-168gr running at 2760fps, hand loads. All from my grandsons rifle. everything he hit was as close to a bang flop as you can get. His wildebeest was a 120yd shot quartering away, you can see what the Barnes did to its heart.

 

[dchum]

First off with the velocities stated the 150 will have 400 foot pounds more energy at 200 yards than the 165s
Barnes or others may advertise its expansion is down to 1800 and others say 2000 but where they really shine is 2500fps and above. I really do not understand the use for copper ammo unless your like me and the government forces it upon you. Partitions, accubonds etc so many great lead options.

Straight line penetration.

Barnes and similar have gone through stomach and guts of big antelopes for me and reached the chest cavity.

While still expanding and causing great trauma for a good kill.

I've pulled many accubonds that look like pancakes. Partions… broken and smushed into pieces.

Broadside shots I can’t deny those two kill “better” and work very well.

Shooting a 30 cal at a big antelope running away from me? Only the Barnes will go the length of the animal

Your experience may vary

 

[RLL]

Just as a quick heads up.. There seems to be some evidence that the 168 gr. bullet you can buy for reloading are harder/tougher than the bullet used in Barnes own ammunition. There is a thread on the Norwegian forum Kammeret whith extensive testing of many different bullets. Here is a snapshot from a test done on Barnes own ammunition and bullets available to the reloader. Shot at 600ms ( about 200fps)

Barnes ammunition on the left, reloaded ammunition on the right.

View attachment 623249

The bullet on the left is a LRX. On the right is a TTSX. I’ve loaded enough of each.

 

[dchum]

The bullet on the left is a LRX. On the right is a TTSX. I’ve loaded enough of each.

Did you read his post? You are looking at two different calibers.

Only the ones on the Right box are his .308 that he is talking about. And those are all the same.

 

[shootist~]

Did you read his post? You are looking at two different calibers.

Only the ones on the Right box are his .308 that he is talking about. And those are all the same.

I think you and Stig might be referring to different posts. #27 (for Stig), and #36.