30-06 165 grn TTSX fast enough

[dchum]

I think you and Stig might be referring to different posts. #27 (for Stig), and #36.

Yep - thank you. I stand corrected

Long thread

 

[Andrew62]

I’m loading some 165 grain TTSX ,for my wife’s 30-06 for our upcoming trip. They are shooting great! They are running at about 2700fps @ muzzle. Is this fast enough?
Plains game up to Kudu.

I doubt you'll find a kudu to argue they're not fast enough!

 

[Shifty05]

Straight line penetration.

Barnes and similar have gone through stomach and guts of big antelopes for me and reached the chest cavity.

While still expanding and causing great trauma for a good kill.

I've pulled many accubonds that look like pancakes. Partions… broken and smushed into pieces.

Broadside shots I can’t deny those two kill “better” and work very well.

Shooting a 30 cal at a big antelope running away from me? Only the Barnes will go the length of the animal

Your experience may vary

I doubt the OP’s wife will be making running Texas heart shots on her trip but hey u never know!

 

[prdhuntrs]

I doubt the OP’s wife will be making running Texas heart shots on her trip but hey u never know!

I certainly hope she isn’t! However the ability to get penetration out of a lighter bullet is why I’m going with the TTSX. If I can get flatter trajectory while getting just as good penetration as compared to the 180 accubonds or such I see it as a win. I had never used either bullet so the experiences of others ( at least on game animals) is what I have to rely on. Both seem to work equally so I went with what I can get to shoot the flattest. I am hoping to find out for myself in about 28 days!

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I bought a box of 168 Barnes TSX back in 2019 in prep for my second trip to Africa but could not get them to group. May have been an issue with my barrel. And yes, I did seat the bullets the prescribed jump to lands. The Springfield's two land late WWII barrel had a corroded stretch about two thirds towards muzzle. It had a history of odd flyer. Figured it was time for a change. Nobody was making barrels during the pandemic but I was able to pick up a very nice 4-land military barrel on ebay in time for the 2021 safari. I still have part of the box of TSX so should see if they will work in this barrel. For that trip I stayed with 165 Partitions left over from first safari with usual good results. Grouped well enough and good killers but they can be messy close range. I shot this buck last fall with 165 gr Partition in Federal factory ammo at just over 200 yards. I declined to shoot him looking at me. As he turned to take off I hit him broadside just behind the left front shoulder. Bullet deflected and lodged under skin of right ham without breaking bones. It was a quick shot and bullet hit exactly where I expected. Did not expect it to jump sideways. As usual, front half down to partition was gone.

 

[prdhuntrs]

I bought a box of 168 Barnes TSX back in 2019 in prep for my second trip to Africa but could not get them to group. May have been an issue with my barrel. And yes, I did seat the bullets the prescribed jump to lands. The Springfield's two land late WWII barrel had a corroded stretch about two thirds towards muzzle. It had a history of odd flyer. Figured it was time for a change. Nobody was making barrels during the pandemic but I was able to pick up a very nice 4-land military barrel on ebay in time for the 2021 safari. I still have part of the box of TSX so should see if they will work in this barrel. For that trip I stayed with 165 Partitions left over from first safari with usual good results. Grouped well enough and good killers but they can be messy close range. I shot this buck last fall with 165 gr Partition in Federal factory ammo at just over 200 yards. I declined to shoot him looking at me. As he turned to take off I hit him broadside just behind the left front shoulder. Bullet deflected and lodged under skin of right ham without breaking bones. It was a quick shot and bullet hit exactly where I expected. Did not expect it to jump sideways. As usual, front half down to partition was gone.
View attachment 623614

I’m still playing with her 30-06 and my 300 wsm (180 grn). So far I’m not having any trouble get good groups. I have a load for each I’m very comfortable with but never know when the nest load might be even better .
I shot an elk with 165 grn partitions years ago. While many people have moved on to “newer and better” things they are still very good bullets and suitable for just about anything.

 

[FlyGuy]

I’m still playing with her 30-06 and my 300 wsm (180 grn). So far I’m not having any trouble get good groups. I have a load for each I’m very comfortable with but never know when the nest load might be even better .
I shot an elk with 165 grn partitions years ago. While many people have moved on to “newer and better” things they are still very good bullets and suitable for just about anything.

At around 2750-2800fps, the 165gr Partition is an exceptional game bullet.
If your 30-06 likes them, plains game won’t.

 

[Spongebob]

I’ve recently shifted from a 180gn TTSX down to a 165gn TTSX with VV N540. Getting around 2890 fps.

Harvested a BWB no problem on the shoulder.

Below group is 3 rounds at 100 meters.

 

[steve71]

I shoot 168gr TTSX over either imr4064 or H4350. The Barnes people say the longer 168gr is made for 30-06. The shorter 165s are for 308 shorter action. worked great in Africa on everything from Impala to zebra and wildebeest

 

[A382DWDZQ]

Haven’t see it mentioned, but the 150TTSX is a minimum impact velocity of 2,000 fps, as compared to the 165TTSX at 1,800 fps and the 168gr at 1,500 fps. I run the 168 in my 308 and 30-06. I have some low recoil loads with the 168 TTSX for the 308 that are leaving the barrel at about 2,000 fps with intended use of < 250 yds.

 

[wildwilderness]

I

I'm not sure why you would think a lighter 30-06 bullet will give you better bang flop, especially at longer distance. It MAY give you flatter trajectory but if shots are two hundred yards or less, flat trajectory is almost immaterial. 150 gr might be okay for springbuck or blesbuck, but gemsbuck, zebra, kudu, and wildebeest definitely not enough in my opinion. Those are tough customers! For those species you could have a tough time getting an exit wound in boiler room with even 165 gr premium bullets. I don't see a 150 gr making it all the way through. And that weight bullet certainly won't have enough oomph to knock them off their feet unless hit in CNS (brain or spine). You would be better served with old fashion 180 cup and core.

All copper bullets behave differently than cup and core. You cannot apply the same thought processes to both.


You are more likely to get a bang flop from a Barnes going faster (usually lighter weight) because it expands more and has a bigger shock and more trauma. A heavier Barnes going slower will expand less and probably push (some complain pencil) through with less trauma.

Also a Barnes at 150gr will have virtually 100% weight retention while a premium bullet say a 165 with 90% weight retention is at 148gr. Now a cup and core at 180gr with an optimistic 80% is at 144 grains- So in reality a lighter Barnes will penetrate better than a heavier lead bullet due to weight retention.

As to your question if a Barnes will break or veer off at a 3000fps hit not a chance! They are not like traditional lead or match bullets! Toughness has never been and issue with mono metal bullets. I strongly advocate to aim for the front shoulder with a Barnes! Purposely trying to break bone.

Of course there are some things people don’t like- usually too tough and zip through- solution is to drive them faster and go with a lighter weight, and aim for the actual shoulder and not for a softer lung shot. Another is the Ballistic Coefficient is lower but that only matters in far shots) and some copper fouling in barrels.

 

[A382DWDZQ]

I shoot 168gr TTSX over either imr4064 or H4350. The Barnes people say the longer 168gr is made for 30-06. The shorter 165s are for 308 shorter action. worked great in Africa on everything from Impala to zebra and wildebeest

I am pretty sure the 168 was made for the 308 originally, I believe as a prototype for the military. Someone posted above with a quote from Barnes about the 165 being for the 300 win mag. It’s a harder bullet and the profile is designed to get it short enough to fit in the magazine of factory 300 win mags. For the 308 the minimum impact velocity + 200fps on the 165 vs the 168, you’re at 300yds vs 650yds.
Edit:
Length on the 165 is 1.388”, B.C. 0.442
Length on the 168 is 1.418”, B.C. 0.470

 

[prdhuntrs]

Little follow up. Shot the 168 at just over 2750 FPS. My wife shot gemsbok, kudu, impala, and Blesbok with it. I can say without a doubt the animals didn’t like it! Penetrated very well and left good exit holes! Unfortunately we weren’t able to recover any bullets. We had no trouble recovering animals though and that’s more important to me.
Thanks to those that helped me!

 

[Tex .416]

Haven’t see it mentioned, but the 150TTSX is a minimum impact velocity of 2,000 fps, as compared to the 165TTSX at 1,800 fps and the 168gr at 1,500 fps. I run the 168 in my 308 and 30-06. I have some low recoil loads with the 168 TTSX for the 308 that are leaving the barrel at about 2,000 fps with intended use of < 250 yds.

Might try the 130 at 3100 (45 - 47 of Varget in my rifles). Mild recoil and very impressive terminal effects. I worked it up for the kids and wife years ago. Testing it before giving it to them impressed me so much it is my go to choice for deer and pigs.

 

[A382DWDZQ]

Might try the 130 at 3100 (45 - 47 of Varget in my rifles). Mild recoil and very impressive terminal effects. I worked it up for the kids and wife years ago. Testing it before giving it to them impressed me so much it is my go to choice for deer and pigs.

I did try the 130 TTSX out of the 308, but just didn't really like it. On the numbers, I like the 168 TTSX better than the 130 because its softer and has better BC. The 130 needs to leave the barrel at ~2650 fps to keep > 1,000 fps to 325 yard, which is where the 168 keeps it to at ~2200. The recoil calculator shows that with that scenario, the recoil of the 130 TTSX load is about 1lb of recoil energy heavier. Then because the minimum impact velocity on the 130 is 1800fps, at 350yds, its dropped below that. With the 168 at 1500fps MIV, it is going out to 425. I know the recoil calculator probably isn't exact sience, and I know the ftlbs of energy from the bullet isn't the end all be all, but for comparing two .308 bullets, I think it is meaningful. Not a huge difference, but I think they just end up a lot closer to each other, and given that, I lean toward the heavier bullet.