416 Rigby Sell Me On It

[bassasdaindia]

It's going to be the CZ550 Safari Magnum (European stock).

the American or straight stock is a better option , ecspecially with larger calibers

 

[Velo Dog]

Happy New Year Nicholas Barcom,

One more vote for the Rigby.

I found it impossible to consider any other .416 than the Rigby version after reading "Hunter" by J.A. Hunter (he swore by it for shooting problem lions) and as well as after reading Dr. Kevin "Doctari" Robertson's excellent book, "Africa's Most Dangerous", in particular the chapter on selecting the right cartridge for buffalo.

Mine is a CZ 550 that I had modified by a proper Gunsmith to my requests (extra cross pins, glass bedding to resist recoil, barrel trimmed to about 23 inches (I think it's 23.6 actually), Model 70 safety, larger bolt handle welded on, custom made front sight to resemble the old British style, with flip-up large white bead, etc., etc., etc., and blah, blah, blah.

Mine feeds like a hog, as do all of my several other CZ 550's, from the time I bought them, except the one in .500 Jeffery that I have ranted about earlier in this forum several times (my favorite Gunsmith repaired it by milling the follower a bit and hand filing the rails carefully, now it is slick like the other CZs I own.

Admittedly I do not load it to the gills but, even when loaded down to match the good old Pre-War .404 ballistics, my .416 is plenty powerful enough for anything on earth and a joy to own/carry/shoot.

However, if I ever decide to load it to the standard 410 gr bullet @ 2350 fps, (if I was not such a wimp) I can do that, still with very low pressure.

I personally would not worry about the cost of brass very much, because once you have it, you will probably have it a long time (the low pressure Rigby is not especially rough on multiple reloadings of the brass, except that the shoulder can crumple if one is not especially careful).

If you can afford to hunt Africa even one time in your life, you really can afford 40 rounds of Hornady brand .416 Rigby brass.

Cheers,
Velo Dog

 

[Nicholas Barcomb]

So true Hank! I wanted the 404 Jeffrey badly, but couldn't even begin to look at truly affordable rifles, not even piece together one for the cost of a factory rifle in 416 Rigby. Possibly at a later date the Jeffrey will come to fruition, but not currently.

 

[sierraone]

in defense of the 416 Rem Mag, it actually operates at a fairly low pressure if you keep it at standard velocity. a 400gr bullet at 2300fps is not even close to max pressure for the 416 RM. like the Rigby you can load a 416 RM up to 2500fps pretty easily with a 400gr bullet. the Rigby is larger and can take it further as ive heard them loaded up to 2600+ fps but if your goal is simply 2300fps then both the Rigby and the Rem Mag sit on relatively equal terms.

the main difference between the Rigby and the Remington Magnum is style and history. the Rigby is well... a Rigby, the name alone is synonymous with hunting in Africa. the Rigby is also an older cartridge with a long storied history of successful hunts in Africa. the Rem Mag is a relative new comer to the game and while it performs well it lacks that history the Rigby has.

-matt

Love the second para: the Rigby is a Rigby, my belief completely. Same belief for a .375 H&H and the 30-06.

 

[Nicholas Barcomb]

In a few days I will be receiving 70 pieces of 416 Rigby brass to clean, size, and trim for loading. Thought I was going to get the Eurostocked CZ, but might actually be going for the Kevlar version now. Worse than a woman in a shoe store!

 

[Neil Molendyk]

So Nicholas, how did it all turn out, did you get it and introduce it to Africa?

 

[colorado]

Happy New Year Nicholas Barcom,

One more vote for the Rigby.

I found it impossible to consider any other .416 than the Rigby version after reading "Hunter" by J.A. Hunter (he swore by it for shooting problem lions) and as well as after reading Dr. Kevin "Doctari" Robertson's excellent book, "Africa's Most Dangerous", in particular the chapter on selecting the right cartridge for buffalo.

Mine is a CZ 550 that I had modified by a proper Gunsmith to my requests (extra cross pins, glass bedding to resist recoil, barrel trimmed to about 23 inches (I think it's 23.6 actually), Model 70 safety, larger bolt handle welded on, custom made front sight to resemble the old British style, with flip-up large white bead, etc., etc., etc., and blah, blah, blah.

Mine feeds like a hog, as do all of my several other CZ 550's, from the time I bought them, except the one in .500 Jeffery that I have ranted about earlier in this forum several times (my favorite Gunsmith repaired it by milling the follower a bit and hand filing the rails carefully, now it is slick like the other CZs I own.

Admittedly I do not load it to the gills but, even when loaded down to match the good old Pre-War .404 ballistics, my .416 is plenty powerful enough for anything on earth and a joy to own/carry/shoot.

However, if I ever decide to load it to the standard 410 gr bullet @ 2350 fps, (if I was not such a wimp) I can do that, still with very low pressure.

I personally would not worry about the cost of brass very much, because once you have it, you will probably have it a long time (the low pressure Rigby is not especially rough on multiple reloadings of the brass, except that the shoulder can crumple if one is not especially careful).

If you can afford to hunt Africa even one time in your life, you really can afford 40 rounds of Hornady brand .416 Rigby brass.

Cheers,
Velo Dog

I'm glad your 500 Jeffery finally worked out.

Best Regards,

Chuck

 

[Velo Dog]

I'm glad your 500 Jeffery finally worked out.

Best Regards,

Chuck

Thanks Chuck,

It was VERY annoying at first, to spend $3,000.us dollars on a brand new, so called “Custom Shop” rifle, only to discover it was completely non-functional.
Meanwhile, it wasn’t much work at all for a real gunsmith (Andy Hawk, here in Anchorage) to make it right.
It is a peach now.

Odd thing is that, I both own and / or have owned several other CZ 550’s that were just normal, plain and much lower priced “rack rifles”, in various calibers that worked perfectly, from the moment I bought them.
Well anyway, that’s water past under the bridge now.

Hope you have a perfect new year for 2021.

Cheers,
Paul.

 

[Nicholas Barcomb]

So Nicholas, how did it all turn out, did you get it and introduce it to Africa?

Have not gone to Africa yet. Once my financial situation clears up, I should be able to go, but that could still be a few years away. Otherwise the 416 Rigby is ready to go with some 410 gr Woodleigh softs and solids. Also picked up some Norma Barnes 400 gr brass solids from an estate sale for free, about 75 rounds.

 

[Nhoro]

My brother has a CZ 550 in 416 Rigby. 12 elephants so far and about 8 or 10 buffalo. If I had been able to get the same calibre, I would have but all that was available was 458 win mag which i have reamed to Lott.

I think it is an awesome calibre, well suited to Africa. I can tell you that I have seen plenty of Winchesters/Rugers/Whitworths/Mausers etc with feeding problems. Whatever rifle you purchase, be prepared to get a competent smith to get it feeding perfectly. Especially if you want to use flat nose solids.

 

[PaulT]

The view i am about to reflect upon is obviously mine and mine alone.

Over the past couple of decades i have had a reasonable level of field use and exposure to rifles chambered in .375+.

Most of that exposure was in the form of using both the .375 and the .458 Lott for guiding, back-up clients, recreational hunting, meat gathering and culling.

For some time i also owned a .500 NE double and still currently own a wildcat .500 mdmultramag.
In my time guiding clients on buffalo i had the opportunity to shoot many different rifles in most of the usual calibers

For some reason, and in my opinion only, as we all know recoil is subjective, but i personally found .416 Rigby chambered rifles to particularly difficult to handle recoil-wise.
To me, the Rigby seems to come back awefully fast and hard and most might be shocked by my following comment, in that i prefer to shoot the .458 Lott than any rifle chambered in .416

These comments are not intended to reflect any opinion regarding the effectiveness of the .416 Rigby on game, as i have found that when loaded with bullets strong enough to withstand the velocity capable of the cartridge the .416 does an extremely effective job, on buffalo at least.

Certainly nothing wrong with the cartridge IF you can handle the recoil.

For me, i much prefer the thump of a Lott, and after that i MUCH more prefer the thump of my .500 mdm.

 

[TOBY458]

The view i am about to reflect upon is obviously mine and mine alone.

Over the past couple of decades i have had a reasonable level of field use and exposure to rifles chambered in .375+.

Most of that exposure was in the form of using both the .375 and the .458 Lott for guiding, back-up clients, recreational hunting, meat gathering and culling.

For some time i also owned a .500 NE double and still currently own a wildcat .500 mdmultramag.
In my time guiding clients on buffalo i had the opportunity to shoot many different rifles in most of the usual calibers

For some reason, and in my opinion only, as we all know recoil is subjective, but i personally found .416 Rigby chambered rifles to particularly difficult to handle recoil-wise.
To me, the Rigby seems to come back awefully fast and hard and most might be shocked by my following comment, in that i prefer to shoot the .458 Lott than any rifle chambered in .416

These comments are not intended to reflect any opinion regarding the effectiveness of the .416 Rigby on game, as i have found that when loaded with bullets strong enough to withstand the velocity capable of the cartridge the .416 does an extremely effective job, on buffalo at least.

Certainly nothing wrong with the cartridge IF you can handle the recoil.

For me, i much prefer the thump of a Lott, and after that i MUCH more prefer the thump of my .500 mdm.

What grain bullets and what velocity do you load the 458 Lott for? Also, have you used the 458 Win Mag over the years as well?

 

[PaulT]

My regular Lott handload pushed a 500gn at 2250fps - 2280fps.
I find a lot of quoted velocities from various handloaders to be lets say "optimistic" (as they are from most of the die-hards trying to push their pet cartridge).

Yes, over the years i used a few client 458 Win's, including shooting a lefthand version once off my left shoulder (i am VERY right side dominant) to finish off a buff across a water-course.
I really like the Win mag and had i known then what i know now i'm sure i would have had equally good results as i did with the Lott.

 

[TOBY458]

My regular Lott handload pushed a 500gn at 2250fps - 2280fps.
I find a lot of quoted velocities from various handloaders to be lets say "optimistic" (as they are from most of the die-hards trying to push their pet cartridge).

Yes, over the years i used a few client 458 Win's, including shooting a lefthand version once off my left shoulder (i am VERY right side dominant) to finish off a buff across a water-course.
I really like the Win mag and had i known then what i know now i'm sure i would have had equally good results as i did with the Lott.

Yes I agree. These people stating they get 2400 FPS from a Lott with 500gr bullets have to be running insane pressure IF they are in fact getting 2400fps. All of my loading manuals only list the Lott at around 2250 fps. They also list the WM around 2100-2150, with the same chamber pressures and loading density. So I've always wondered why people bash the WM and praise the Lott. After all, we're only talking 100 fps and a .030 increase in case length.
As for the 500 MDM, it looks like a great cartridge. The 500s have always intrigued me, but I've never owned one, unless you count .50 caliber muzzleloaders. Haha! I have a Blaser R8 and have considered getting a 500 Jeffery barrel for it, but with the far less expensive loading components for the 458 rifles, I'd be hard pressed to choose a 500 over a 458. But I'm sure the 500 would be more fun!

 

[Forrest Halley]

Yes I agree. These people stating they get 2400 FPS from a Lott with 500gr bullets have to be running insane pressure IF they are in fact getting 2400fps. All of my loading manuals only list the Lott at around 2250 fps. They also list the WM around 2100-2150, with the same chamber pressures and loading density. So I've always wondered why people bash the WM and praise the Lott. After all, we're only talking 100 fps and a .030 increase in case length.
As for the 500 MDM, it looks like a great cartridge. The 500s have always intrigued me, but I've never owned one, unless you count .50 caliber muzzleloaders. Haha! I have a Blaser R8 and have considered getting a 500 Jeffery barrel for it, but with the far less expensive loading components for the 458 rifles, I'd be hard pressed to choose a 500 over a 458. But I'm sure the 500 would be more fun!

I got the .458 for that exact reason. I went with the .458 Lott for the ammo flexibility and the ability to use .45-70 bullets for practice ammo. Can't do that with a fifty.

 

[machinistbutler]

Yes I agree. These people stating they get 2400 FPS from a Lott with 500gr bullets have to be running insane pressure IF they are in fact getting 2400fps. All of my loading manuals only list the Lott at around 2250 fps. They also list the WM around 2100-2150, with the same chamber pressures and loading density. So I've always wondered why people bash the WM and praise the Lott. After all, we're only talking 100 fps and a .030 increase in case length.
As for the 500 MDM, it looks like a great cartridge. The 500s have always intrigued me, but I've never owned one, unless you count .50 caliber muzzleloaders. Haha! I have a Blaser R8 and have considered getting a 500 Jeffery barrel for it, but with the far less expensive loading components for the 458 rifles, I'd be hard pressed to choose a 500 over a 458. But I'm sure the 500 would be more fun!

Isn't the increase in case length .300, not .030?

 

[TOBY458]

Isn't the increase in case length .300, not .030?

I Put the 3 in the wrong place!

 

[machinistbutler]

Lol , I figured it was a small typo on your part. One thing I prefer with my 458 Lott over my 458 Winchester is I don't have to have as much of a compressed charge to get the velocities I want with a 500 grain bullet.

Both would get the job done on anything though. I just like guns.


Craig

 

[C.W. Richter]

The only thing different about reloading a .416 Rigby is the cases. Everything else is pretty much the same. Here's some useful data: .416 Rigby 90-100 gr powder/2,450 fps. .416 Rem (80-90 gr powder/2,450 fps), .416 Chatfield-Taylor (75 gr powder/2,450 fps in a 20" bbl using short .458 WM cases widely available.) Doing the math just makes good sense to me. The powders are just that good today, as compared to what? 1911? Also, you may require a bigger press, case trimmer, etc. w/ the Rigby. Nothing wrong with it. Unnecessary today (like the hotter Wby.) After much experimentation with handloading the Taylor, I developed a load that yielded 2,550 fps and just under 8,000 ft-lbs of muzzle energy (but deemed it unnecessary also; heavy recoil, high pressure and 2,450ish is the sweet spot for performance in .416 on DG.)

 

[machinistbutler]

I would think resale would be much better on a Rigby, Remington, or the Ruger. Having proper headstamped brass can be important depending where you are hunting.

I also like the fact that the Rigby is just idling along at 2450 fps with a 410 grain load , at lower pressures. I don't think I would like to be pulling the trigger on your taylor at 2550 fps, unless it was a light bullet.

I have never seen a taylor at the range, hunting here in Canada, or where I hunted in africa. I have seen many Rigby and some remington's. Haven't seen the ruger yet, but I haven't seen the 375 ruger yet either.

I guess it's kind of like the 308, 30/06, 300 mag preferences. I have seen many trying to turn a 308 winchester into the 300 weatherby, it's kind of funny.