45-70 for dangerous game?

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I've been thinking the same could it be used against DG? I have found a load that will push a 300grn bullet at 2424fps developing 3914 ft lbs at the muzzle dropping to 2092 ft lbs at 100 yards. Would that be sufficient??

@norfolk shooter
The 300gn 45 cal is a soft projectile that even blows up on mud encrusted pigs at that speed. Might be fine for some plains game but not DG. Remember DG Hide is like a pom. Thick as. HA HA HA HA HA
Bob

 

[colorado]

45-70 with good bullets is good brown bear medicine I've heard. Wait until you're within 20 yards of a 9' plus bear to shoot one. They're dangerous as hell

 

[skydiver386]

The real problem is the 45-70 is really 2 different cartridges, depending on the rifle it's fired in.

Is the 45-70 a DG cartridge in a trapdoor Springfield or lever gun, NO.

Can the the 45-70 be loaded till Hell won't have it in a Siamese Mauser to almost equal a .458 Win, YES.

 

[colorado]

I was thinking a lever action ....

 

[IvW]

I can only ask why???? Makes no sense to even consider it for Africa.....NA maybe....Africa....forget it....

 

[BeeMaa]

I can only ask why???? Makes no sense to even consider it for Africa.....NA maybe....Africa....forget it....

It doesn't have to make sense to you or anyone else. Does it make sense that archery tackle is legal for DG but the 35W isn't? Some people like the challenge. And for the PH who is willing to provide an opportunity to hunt DG with a lever action in whatever legal cartridge...why not?

This is the point. It's legal (at least in some areas). Yes it has limitations, but within those guidelines it's perfectly acceptable.

 

[IvW]

It doesn't have to make sense to you or anyone else. Does it make sense that archery tackle is legal for DG but the 35W isn't? Some people like the challenge. And for the PH who is willing to provide an opportunity to hunt DG with a lever action in whatever legal cartridge...why not?

This is the point. It's legal (at least in some areas). Yes it has limitations, but within those guidelines it's perfectly acceptable.

I will remain senseless then....

 

[pilar]

I will remain senseless then....

I’m with you! I was a guide one time for a hunt Ted Nugget booked and he wore a faux zebra cowboy hat and a Faux leopard print loincloth and no shirt,
some people are just like that.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I can only ask why???? Makes no sense to even consider it for Africa.....NA maybe....Africa....forget it....

Well then, how about a lever action Browning BLR re barreled and chambered in .416 Taylor or .458 Winchester Magnum? Would that satisfy your requirements? LOL

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I will remain senseless then....

Yep.

 

[pamtnman]

Well then, how about a lever action Browning BLR re barreled and chambered in .416 Taylor or .458 Winchester Magnum? Would that satisfy your requirements? LOL

Here is what I like about the Ruger Marlin 1895 SBL: High quality stainless steel, excellent open sights, large loop lever, rugged laminate wood, threaded barrel, and rugged construction allowing the use of hot loads. It is extremely accurate. It is an unusually well thought out and executed piece of work that gives me a lot of flexibility of load choice. If there is another gun that has these qualities, at the same quality level or better, then I would be interested in replacing the 1895 SBL. I hunted with a Henry 45-70 in AK last September, and I was not impressed with it. The rear sight kept migrating about every 30 minutes, the barrel steel rusted very easily, and the accuracy was about 4" at 100 yards with Federal Hammer and Hornady FTX ammo.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

It doesn't have to make sense to you or anyone else. Does it make sense that archery tackle is legal for DG but the 35W isn't? Some people like the challenge. And for the PH who is willing to provide an opportunity to hunt DG with a lever action in whatever legal cartridge...why not?

This is the point. It's legal (at least in some areas). Yes it has limitations, but within those guidelines it's perfectly acceptable.

In Zimbabwe a special permit is required. Maybe you should suggest to National Parks that they have a special permit for calibers that they consider inadequate for dangerous game? The correspondence should be interesting, especially if your PH says its fine with him.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Well then, how about a lever action Browning BLR re barreled and chambered in .416 Taylor or .458 Winchester Magnum? Would that satisfy your requirements? LOL

@CoElkHunter
I like your thinking mate.
What about a BLR takedown with a 416 Taylor and a 358 Norma Mag barrel, plus a 300WM and your set for everything.
Bob

 

[CoElkHunter]

Here is what I like about the Ruger Marlin 1895 SBL: High quality stainless steel, excellent open sights, large loop lever, rugged laminate wood, threaded barrel, and rugged construction allowing the use of hot loads. It is extremely accurate. It is an unusually well thought out and executed piece of work that gives me a lot of flexibility of load choice. If there is another gun that has these qualities, at the same quality level or better, then I would be interested in replacing the 1895 SBL. I hunted with a Henry 45-70 in AK last September, and I was not impressed with it. The rear sight kept migrating about every 30 minutes, the barrel steel rusted very easily, and the accuracy was about 4" at 100 yards with Federal Hammer and Hornady FTX ammo.

Yes, I’ll bet Ruger HAS upped the quality of the Marlin. I haven’t personally fondled one yet but they’re a nice looking rifle. I have shot my buddy’s older Marlin .45-70 with an 18” barrel and his son’s with a 22” barrel. I thought they shot fine for a shorter range big game rifle, but the recoil with the 18” barrel was a bit “lively “. We were using 325gr. FTX ammo.

 

[pamtnman]

Yes, I’ll bet Ruger HAS upped the quality of the Marlin. I haven’t personally fondled one yet but they’re a nice looking rifle. I have shot my buddy’s older Marlin .45-70 with an 18” barrel and his son’s with a 22” barrel. I thought they shot fine for a shorter range big game rifle, but the recoil with the 18” barrel was a bit “lively “. We were using 325gr. FTX ammo.

The recoil doesn’t bother my body, because it is a true size XXL, sometimes XXXL in hunting coats, because I layer so much underneath. Some of the layers I can remove at will, others I can’t seem to take off, and they also provide ballast for absorbing recoil. The new 1895 SBL is really well done. I can see why a person would make it his all-round hunting rifle, from Alaska to Midwest whitetails to African big game. Few guns have that much range of motion/ opportunity/ use. If you look at Michael’s testing, the results are remarkable. The modern solids take the caliber into a new realm of effectiveness. Anyhow. The prices are bonkers right now. Unless you absolutely must have one right now, I’d wait.

 

[freefall]

Well then, how about a lever action Browning BLR re barreled and chambered in .416 Taylor or .458 Winchester Magnum? Would that satisfy your requirements? LOL

I used to own a BLR in .358 Win. I off-loaded it because of extraction problems. I would FAR druther trust my life to my Marlin .45-70 than a Browning in either of those calibers.
ymmv

 

[BeeMaa]

In Zimbabwe a special permit is required. Maybe you should suggest to National Parks that they have a special permit for calibers that they consider inadequate for dangerous game? The correspondence should be interesting, especially if your PH says its fine with him.

I think you misunderstand my view on the subject of using a 45-70 for dangerous game.

While it's legal in some areas and I fully support those who wish to pursue this endeavor, I myself would not choose to do so. My preference is for a 375H&H with a 300 grain TSX at 2500 fps for nearly everything in Africa, except elephant (which I'll never have the $ to hunt) and the T10...then I'll use 300 grain Woodliegh Hydros.

I believe that supporting all types of legal hunting is good for the community, regardless of what my personal opinion may be on that particular method. If it's legal and someone wants to meet the requirements to do it, go for it.

I also understand that just because things are legal doesn't necessarily make it a good idea. That's why I say there are limitations. Shot distance, shot angle, skill level of the hunter, load being used...all play a factor. It's not much different than comparing bow hunting for elk vs using a 30-06.

The Zim government has to recognize these limitations by requiring a special permit and in doing so is stressing the point that some extra attention needs to be applied in this case. Hopefully any visiting hunter and PH applying for such a permit will recognize this.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I think you misunderstand my view on the subject of using a 45-70 for dangerous game.

While it's legal in some areas and I fully support those who wish to pursue this endeavor, I myself would not choose to do so. My preference is for a 375H&H with a 300 grain TSX at 2500 fps for nearly everything in Africa, except elephant (which I'll never have the $ to hunt) and the T10...then I'll use 300 grain Woodliegh Hydros.

I believe that supporting all types of legal hunting is good for the community, regardless of what my personal opinion may be on that particular method. If it's legal and someone wants to meet the requirements to do it, go for it.

I also understand that just because things are legal doesn't necessarily make it a good idea. That's why I say there are limitations. Shot distance, shot angle, skill level of the hunter, load being used...all play a factor. It's not much different than comparing bow hunting for elk vs using a 30-06.

The Zim government has to recognize these limitations by requiring a special permit and in doing so is stressing the point that some extra attention needs to be applied in this case. Hopefully any visiting hunter and PH applying for such a permit will recognize this.

As far as I know that permit does not exist, but strange things happen. Thats why I stated I would be interested in the correspondence.

Unfortunately there are PHs operating under certain licensed operators that turn a blind eye to almost anything. I am not saying that is what you want to do, but if you do be very careful the last thing you or anyone want is to end up in our prison.

I have posted in the past about foreign PHs telling clients that they can arrange a DG hunt in Zim. They then pay off one of thei PHs to do a ride along and the foreign PH acts as your PH. This type of person will certainly work with anyone on just about anything. It happens.

Lon

 

[AZDAVE]

The 45/70 is one of my favorite rounds. I have shot it in trapdoors, leverguns, double rifles, a couple different bolt guns, and ruger #1's. the question of 45/70 for dangerous game has been beat to death over and over. For the bears of the world it is a great round, I would use one on the cats with proper bullets. but on thick skinned african game (Cape buffalo, elephant, hippo, and rhino) there are much better rounds for the job. I wouldn't use a 45/70 on them!

Once other thing comparing firearms ballistics to archery equipment shouldn't even be in the same sentence as they kill things in a totally different manner. If you are going to compare things, at least make in the same family. IE apples to apples not apples to broccoli.

Well that is my .02 worth.

 

[spike.t]

Take a look at Garrett Cartridge. The 45-70 is their meat & spuds. There's some pretty good info to sort through on their site. Do NOT even consider Leverevolution if you like living.

Slightly off topic (apologies)....but what is the leverevolution ammunition capable of taking...in 45-70 and 30-30?