A Case of Use Enough Gun?

[DIRTYHARRYBALLISTICS]

I do believe i'm up for testing this theory. It wont happen soon as i dont own either cartridges at the moment, but i may be able to sort that out down the road. I could do a shoot, side by side on ballistics gel and with slow-mo, we could easily see which leaves the larger temporary and permanent wound cavities.

I could get multiple varieties for proper matching as well to test regular factory ammunition. I know that Federal has their Fusion line that has 95gr .243's at 2980fps and 180gr .300's at 2960fps. I believe that factory offering would be highly telling as well as others.

 

[MS 9x56]

@MS 9x56 Let it go brother, not worth the time…

Your right, the man doesn’t even understand the meaning of the word ballistics.

 

[CZDiesel]

Congrats! Beautiful deer!! What grain and type bullets did you use on both? How far were they and were they broadside shots? thx....

They were 85gr Nosler Partitions loaded by Superior Ammunition at close to 200 yards for both bucks. Not sure at the exact angle but I’d think both were broadside or quartering

 

[Daisy]

Superior ammo does great work. They have loaded a lot of ammo for me

 

[DIRTYHARRYBALLISTICS]

So it seems MS 9x56 demands i keep it civil, but thinks its peachy to insult me instead of showing evidence supporting their claims. That isnt using intellectual discourse. Resorting to insults, indicates a lack of any meaningful material to add to the argument. Everyone else has kept it civil as you requested, please do the same. As i said in a previous response, i meant no hostility in my initial comment and intended no aggression. It was worded very poorly and i apologize for that. I will be better in my replies and be respectful of others.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Everyone has their opinions and that’s great! Variety is the spice of life and keeps things interesting…
But the 243Win with the right bullet will hammer large Whitetails!
Both of these large bodied bucks were just taken this season using a 243Win and it knocked the heck out of them!

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@CZDiesel
And that's where the problem lies.
95% of 243 owners choose the wrong bullet.
Bob

 

[Ontario Hunter]

@CZDiesel
And that's where the problem lies.
95% of 243 owners choose the wrong bullet.
Bob

Comparatively much less potential for a "problem" with a more manly caliber. 30-06 will flat kill a deer no matter if it's shooting 150 gr or 220 gr bullet. Difference being the 150 gr bullet may make a wasteful mess while 220 gr only accurate out to 150 yards. But the deer is still dead.

 

[WyoBull]

@CZDiesel
And that's where the problem lies.
95% of 243 owners choose the wrong bullet.
Bob

I would agree with you, Bob. I think the majority of hunters that do not reload will buy the least expensive bullet on the shelf, like Remington Core-lokt and call it good.
As an avid reloader for 45+ years, I have loaded and shot a lot of bullets over the years in a lot of different calibers. I will definitely say the bullet used makes all the difference and bullet technology has come a long way.

I also shoot light for caliber bullets and run them fast. I have always had this mindset and probably comes from my first varmint rifle being a 220 Swift (which is my favorite varmint caliber which I still favor and shoot today). An example is my 7mm RUM where my favorite bullet if the Barnes 145 gr LRX running pretty fast. For my first Africa hunt for PG I loaded 160 gr Barnes TSX and it absolutely hammered everything I shot. I know the 145 gr TSX would have performed just as well and that is on the lighter side for caliber.
And as I have said in other posts, the 80 gr Barnes TTSX I have loaded for my 243 Win is a fantastic load for deer and antelope size game but I would never use it for anything larger. I have it loaded faster than the factory load from Barnes using the same bullet and it is a lot of fun to shoot.
So for me, picking a high quality bullet is key. If you reload, it opens up a lot more option for you in bullets, bullet weights and velocity.

 

[DIRTYHARRYBALLISTICS]

@CZDiesel
And that's where the problem lies.
95% of 243 owners choose the wrong bullet.
Bob

I think thats really a large portion of the issue when animals get wounded, no matter the caliber, that and shot placement, which i believe shot placement trumps bullet selection in any case.

 

[DIRTYHARRYBALLISTICS]

Comparatively much less potential for a "problem" with a more manly caliber. 30-06 will flat kill a deer no matter if it's shooting 150 gr or 220 gr bullet. Difference being the 150 gr bullet may make a wasteful mess while 220 gr only accurate out to 150 yards. But the deer is still dead.

I'm not sure about "much less" but less for sure. A .243 can expand, but a .308 isnt getting any smaller. A .50bmg only leaves a 3cm larger permanent wound channel than a .30-06 (both with fmj ball ammo) 3cm is barely over an inch, and while it can certainly make the difference between dead and not, its not a massive difference like people would have ya think. If you can dump all of the energy on target, and thats a big if, then more is always better up to the point of destroying the meat you intend on harvesting.

 

[DIRTYHARRYBALLISTICS]

Everyone has their opinions and that’s great! Variety is the spice of life and keeps things interesting…
But the 243Win with the right bullet will hammer large Whitetails!
Both of these large bodied bucks were just taken this season using a 243Win and it knocked the heck out of them!

View attachment 657144View attachment 657145

Howd these two score? The wide one is awesome for sure.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I think thats really a large portion of the issue when animals get wounded, no matter the caliber, that and shot placement, which i believe shot placement trumps bullet selection in any case.

@DIRTYHARRYBALLISTICS
Sorry mate have to respectfully disagree.
You can have the perfect shot placement but if'n the projectile ain't up to the task all you will get is wounded game or a lingering death. Not a good scenario.
This is from personal experience, not book readin or from couch ballistics.
Ive seen animals shot with 243s that just ran off. Yes they may have died later on but that ain't ethical to me.
Changing to a better construction bullet increased the percentage of drt or short run kills.
The projectile needs to get into the vitals and do massive destruction and to me hopefully exit as well. Hole in and hole out makes for more blood loss in my book.
I have seen animals shot that showed no signs of being hit only to be found later very dead. The entrance wound had sealed and there was no exit. It wasn't until it was skun that the entrance wound was found. Hence hole in bigger hole out to me. They can't usually run far if they are leaking blood from two holes.
They can't go far when leaking copious amounts of blood and the lungs don't work well if'n there's no negative pressure and big holes in the lungs.

Then again what would I know I ain't a vet or a doctor and only been hunting 50 odd years
Bob

 

[WAB]

Everyone has their opinions and that’s great! Variety is the spice of life and keeps things interesting…
But the 243Win with the right bullet will hammer large Whitetails!
Both of these large bodied bucks were just taken this season using a 243Win and it knocked the heck out of them!

View attachment 657144View attachment 657145

Fantastic deer! I have shot a number of deer with a .243. It works just fine with the right bullet and decent shot placement.

 

[DIRTYHARRYBALLISTICS]

@DIRTYHARRYBALLISTICS
Sorry mate have to respectfully disagree.
You can have the perfect shot placement but if'n the projectile ain't up to the task all you will get is wounded game or a lingering death. Not a good scenario.
This is from personal experience, not book readin or from couch ballistics.
Ive seen animals shot with 243s that just ran off. Yes they may have died later on but that ain't ethical to me.
Changing to a better construction bullet increased the percentage of drt or short run kills.
The projectile needs to get into the vitals and do massive destruction and to me hopefully exit as well. Hole in and hole out makes for more blood loss in my book.
I have seen animals shot that showed no signs of being hit only to be found later very dead. The entrance wound had sealed and there was no exit. It wasn't until it was skun that the entrance wound was found. Hence hole in bigger hole out to me. They can't usually run far if they are leaking blood from two holes.
They can't go far when leaking copious amounts of blood and the lungs don't work well if'n there's no negative pressure and big holes in the lungs.

Then again what would I know I ain't a vet or a doctor and only been hunting 50 odd years
Bob

Well i cant say i personally know of a .243 bullet design that when shot just behind the shoulder, wouldnt just decimate both lungs or take out the heart. Any .243 shots on deer that didnt die, in my opinion, is due to poor placement. I'm a butcher, i've seen more animals come across my table than i care to count, and the damage from a .243 on deer is more than sufficient. The few elk i've seen taken with it had 2 lodged in the opposite shoulder and 1 pass through double lung that the exit hole was nearly an inch and a quarter in diameter. Thats sufficient in my opinion. I will note, that for elk, i strongly prefer larger cartridges as they are more prooven on em. Elk have heavy bone structure in the shoulder and while a .243 might get through it, i'd bet they would probably need a follow up shot. Just my experience in 15 years as a butcher.