A thorough conversation with Swarovski - Conclusion: Rookhawk knows nothing and is wrong about everything

[Russ16]

This fascination with adjustable turrets is mind boggling to me. I have scopes with adjustable turrets on two rifles, both intended for long range shooting. IMO, if you need adjustable turrets on shots out to four hundred, you don’t know your rifle well enough.

I have one rifle with one figured I needed to at least experience it before criticizing. All I do is spend all my time paranoid that the turret has gotten moved without me knowing it.

 

[CZDiesel]

This fascination with adjustable turrets is mind boggling to me. I have scopes with adjustable turrets on two rifles, both intended for long range shooting. IMO, if you need adjustable turrets on shots out to four hundred, you don’t know your rifle well enough.

The Boone & Crocket reticle on my 264 and 7STW will allow me to hold dead on with the specific stadia out to 600yrds and then 700yrds using the top of the bottom duplex! And without having to fiddle with a silly turret!
Exactly how many wanna be sniper hunters are gonna shoot out past 700 yards?

 

[Green Chile]

The main thing is to know your gun/load and be able to get on target quickly. I've dialed at distance a few times on game (like Coues) but the main thing is knowing your setup and being able to shoot with confidence in as little time as possible. Sometimes game is unaware but a lot of opportunities don't last more than 10 seconds if that.

I think the most common mistake I have seen in the field is having too much magnification dialed up and the shooter can't see the animal or find them...or they switch back and forth between binos and riflescope. If the PH calls it out to you, get on the scope with as little delay as possible. When I see the sticks coming up, I'm setting up right now while the PH is making a decision. I want to be ready to shoot without delay. Get on the sticks and get settled onto the right animal and get your breathing under control while making any small adjustments if needed.

 

[Datchew]

Guess I'll stick with leupy vx6's
Rugged, dial reliably, and at least a small amount of consideration for customer preferences.

 

[skydiver386]

Guess I'll stick with leupy vx6's
Rugged, dial reliably, and at least a small amount of consideration for customer preferences.

...and outstanding warranty service.

 

[Dirtdart]

And if they could give that three to nine a solid four inches of eye relief they would have solved the number one conundrum.

Add illumination and you would have a winner.

 

[Major Bonkers]

It's a great pity about Swarovski. They have the Scottish deer stalking market sewn up, both in riflescopes and binoculars. The Z6i 'scopes suffer from an illumination switch that is all too easy to knock and drain the battery and, of course, they have suffered from the gradual bloating of riflescopes (and objective lenses) over time. In Scotland, by the way, an 8 power 'scope is considered the sine qua non for stalking.

Within the last month, I have got in touch with Swarovski to get some help with repairs to two pairs of binoculars, only to get back a breezy e-mail telling me that these are out of production and they are unable to help. Hmmmm. That's not why I bought them in the first place. Mercedes went through a similar stage in the '90s where they decided that they were over-engineering their cars and reduced the quality, only to find that they were driving their customers away.

I suspect that Kahles and Meopta are the way to go, although they are a step down from Swarovski.

van der Walt's African Small Game Cartridges discusses riflescopes at Chapter 5 - some 36 pages. Interesting excerpt below:

 

[Datchew]

*snip*

Who the hell wants to shoot an elk at 700m? Get closer.

*snip*

I laughed when I saw this. So true. Probably a quotable quote.
If I didn't take your question as rhetorical, then I believe the answer would be the 6.5 Manbun crowd

 

[thriller]

Well the problem is we are not the majority of the shooting community. They can move a larger quantity of those other optics to people who aren’t using heavier calibers.

 

[Yukontom]

Or more like they're going make what the guys doing the market analysis say to make.

This is most likely true. Everything now is about a scope as big as the rifle it is mounted on. The market (shooters today in the US) is all about long range and high tech along with those extra 30mils of elevation adjustment that of course you never need while hunting. In Europe they want big objective lenses and large tubes for low light shooting at dusk. In both of the above situations you are not likely walking far so heavy and bulky rigs are not a big deal.

 

[PerH]

It's a great pity about Swarovski. They have the Scottish deer stalking market sewn up, both in riflescopes and binoculars. The Z6i 'scopes suffer from an illumination switch that is all too easy to knock and drain the battery and, of course, they have suffered from the gradual bloating of riflescopes (and objective lenses) over time. In Scotland, by the way, an 8 power 'scope is considered the sine qua non for stalking.

Within the last month, I have got in touch with Swarovski to get some help with repairs to two pairs of binoculars, only to get back a breezy e-mail telling me that these are out of production and they are unable to help. Hmmmm. That's not why I bought them in the first place. Mercedes went through a similar stage in the '90s where they decided that they were over-engineering their cars and reduced the quality, only to find that they were driving their customers away.

I suspect that Kahles and Meopta are the way to go, although they are a step down from Swarovski.

van der Walt's African Small Game Cartridges discusses riflescopes at Chapter 5 - some 36 pages. Interesting excerpt below:

View attachment 668114

8x56 scope is one very good all rounder that don’t have much to compromise when it comes to light gathering and weight .

 

[Ontario Hunter]

8x56 scope is one very good all rounder that don’t have much to compromise when it comes to light gathering and weight .

8x56 would be mounted too high and too much magnification to be useful as a quick shooter for stalking up close. Shooting things at last light is dicey enough, especially if no snow. In my experience trying to take animals long range at that time of day should be reserved for varmints.

 

[375er]

8x56 would be mounted too high and too much magnification to be useful as a quick shooter for stalking up close. Shooting things at last light is dicey enough, especially if no snow. In my experience trying to take animals long range at that time of day should only be reserved for varmints.

How much experience do you have at it?

 

[NDWoods]

I tried to like the Zeiss with 36MM tube but had to let it go. I see they are back to a 1-8x with a 30MM tube. I will have to check those out for the rifle I am waiting on.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I think Schwaro is making a big mistake chasing the tactical long range crowd. That market is already saturated with mid to low end manufacturers. Long range wannabe tactical shooting is a niche that is more attractive to those with mid to low end incomes. Shooting gongs at ranges is much more affordable than hunting Africa or paying for trophy nonresident hunts in North America. The former also has higher net showoff value. Weigh the impact per cost of making fantastic long range shots in front of a herd of man-buns every week vs having a buddy or two over for drinks to ogle the mounts on the wall ... which is one-&-done for impact effectiveness. Schwaro should have stayed where they were. I cannot believe they didn't have a solid lucrative market base. Why risk messing with it?

 

[WAB]

8x56 would be mounted too high and too much magnification to be useful as a quick shooter for stalking up close. Shooting things at last light is dicey enough, especially if no snow. In my experience trying to take animals long range at that time of day should be reserved for varmints.

I don’t think you understood his point. The 8x56 is a fantastic low light scope, nothing was said about long range. It would mount high on a classic bolt, but can be perfectly mounted on an R8 or similar with an adjustable comb. The Schmidt & Bender Klassik 8x56 may be the finest low light scope made. Excellent glass, excellent coating, and no extra lenses for variable magnification to reduce light transmission. When you look through one at last light you will understand.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

How much experience do you have at it?

Sixty years. Here's my first elk, October 1971. Shot at seventy yards twice and still had to run him down for a third shot going away in the head at maybe forty yards.

This one was followed by twelve more in as many years. Seven moose and well over a hundred deer plus more than thirty African animals. One long range elk at 300+ yards that I was very lucky to track down with no snow (lightly hit but unique terrain made it possible to catch up to him). Nearly lost one of my horses getting him out of that hellhole.

Last bull elk also at about 350 yards just before dark. I would never have taken that shot except I had just witnessed three flock shooting douche bags from PA hit it in the ham. My shot hit him low and I had to track him for about an hour and a half in the dark with a flashlight. He almost got me in the end. Shoot or die.

Here's what I hunted with. WWII Springfield 30-06 wearing 3x Weaver.

 

[mdwest]

Swarovski Optik is a very profitable company.. In 1993 their revenue was about $31M Euros.. in 2024 they brought in roughly $195M Euros.. their margins arent published (they get rolled into the Swaro mothership.. and they arent publicly traded) but on average from what I can tell 15% is about normal for a true bottom line for most optics manufacturers..

The key thing to note however is where all of that growth is coming from... as already discussed, hunting as a sport is in decline globally.. and "high end" hunting is in rapid decline... the number of people willing to invest in top shelf rifles and optics for the purpose of hunting is getting smaller and smaller each year..

Swaro Optik has had huge growth in its sales of binos and spotting scopes (lots of people other than hunters purchase these items).. while scopes (depending on the model) are largely in steady state or in decline..

If they want to keep selling scopes.. they have to find ways to appeal to a much larger target audience.. .DG hunters and even hunters that appreciate fine optics paired with fine rifles are a shrinking market..

Swaro is also still a family owned business... they are not publicly traded.. with family owned businesses the interests and the passions of the owners are generally the direction that companies tend to move (as opposed to traded companies where bottom lines and stock values are often the only things that matter)..

There is also a well documented feud that has been going on internal to the Swarovski family about the management and the direction of the company thats lasted for years (you can find articles dating back to at least 2019.. I'm sure the problems arose well before then).. Most of their internal fighting has been related to the crystal side of the business.. but it certainly impacts the entire enterprise at large..

Long and the short of it is... if the family members cant get work out their differences and communicate properly about ideas and initiatives... and there arent any dyed in the wool hunters among them that are closely listening or paying attention to the hunting market.. and they arent worried about growth or making money (they are clearly doing both without being concerned much about scopes).. and the tactical market is growing while the hunting market is declining.. and.. and.. and...

expecting them to care about whether a small, niche hunting group is pleased with their decisions and direction.. is sorta unrealistic don't you think?

 

[375er]

I don’t think you understood his point. The 8x56 is a fantastic low light scope, nothing was said about long range. It would mount high on a classic bolt, but can be perfectly mounted on an R8 or similar with an adjustable comb. The Schmidt & Bender Klassik 8x56 may be the finest low light scope made. Excellent glass, excellent coating, and no extra lenses for variable magnification to reduce light transmission. When you look through one at last light you will understand.

That was my point. Unless you have looked through the exact scope and rifle combo, judgements are nothing more than theoretical.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I don’t think you understood his point. The 8x56 is a fantastic low light scope, nothing was said about long range. It would mount high on a classic bolt, but can be perfectly mounted on an R8 or similar with an adjustable comb. The Schmidt & Bender Klassik 8x56 may be the finest low light scope made. Excellent glass, excellent coating, and no extra lenses for variable magnification to reduce light transmission. When you look through one at last light you will understand.

Maybe you didn't understand my point. An 8x scope at 75 yards or less is going to show a bunch of hair no matter how much light it gathers. I don't consider a fixed 8x to be a particularly useful "all rounder" scope. I also don't consider shooting at last light to be particularly useful either. I have done it a couple of times but very close range and, with one exception, all were follow up on wounded animals. Had I been using an 8x scope I think it would have been hopeless. Too close.

It is interesting that all my PHs in Africa insisted on wrapping up plains game hunts WELL before last light. Had I been on my home turf I would have kept hunting longer. However, when approaching last light here, I typically unload and disable my rifle for the walk out. Removes any temptation to shoot too late. It's also illegal to have an unsheathed operational rifle in the field (or vehicle) after dark so I remove the bolt to make it dysfunctional. In Montana I kept the rifle loaded and ready during walk out in the dark. That's grizzly country.