Best make for Doubles

[spike.t]

Spike T I know a couple good archers that would be willing to do a (William Tell) of the monkey off your shoulder. Would be more interesting than a simple apple

kinda like the monkeys on each shoulder ......have ended up with the odd rifle etc when the naughty one wins out he possibly has just recently..... but will have to wait a bit to see if it comes off..............

 

[Philip Glass]

I know virtually nothing about doubles but thought I'd share this experience from SCI. While there I stopped by the Winchester booth to ask a few questions. At first it seemed that neither of the two reps were even going to acknowledge my presence and I was the only one there. Well after a minute or two checking out there display, one of the reps introduced himself. I mentioned I owned a few Winchesters and then started to explain about a feeding issue I'm havining on my new .375 Safari Express. Now I am a Winchester fan, this feeding issue I'm sure is solvable one way or another and this was in no means meant to be a gripe session. I was only looking to see if he had heard of any of the new .375's with this issue and if so what he'd recommend. Well he sat back down in his chair and it was quite evident he wanted nothing to do with this conversation and offered me nothing useful.

Now in contrast to this, a few moments later I found myself wandering the Krieghoff booth to checkout their doubles. One of the reps made his way over in short order and politely asked me if I had any questions. I confessed to my ignorance of doubles and that really at this time it was not in the budget, but perhaps someday and that I was just taking a look around. His response was something along the line of no problem, if you'd like I'd be happy to take the time to explain the gun and caliber choices. The next 10 minutes or so was in my opinion the definition of good customer service with no pressure.

Now if that "someday" ever comes around where I become serious about owning a double, guess who will make my short list. I sure hope the quality of their rifles reflect the professionalism of at least this one particular rep.

Phil,
I had the exact same experience! They were so nice. I prefer the Kgun after looking at many of them. It fits me pretty well. Still just a wish at this point. I guess my only question about doubles concerns the double triggers. I've been told stories of guns doubling especially with inexperienced shooters. I understand there are a few double guns that can be ordered with a single trigger. I would really like to hear from those that have experience with this.
Regards,
Philip

 

[spike.t]

Can I get in on that? I didn't draw archery elk this year so need the practice.....

yeah right phil................

 

[AZDAVE]

For doubles a friend let me shoot his 500 NE Merkel and boy did the double bug bite hard. I started with one of those rem/bakils in 45/70 it had all the lines and grace of a railroad tie but the funny this is the ugly thing shot decent. Traded it and picked up a non-dremeled Sabatti 45/70 that was a major step up. A buddy of mine fell in love with it the first two shots down range and bought it from me. I had saved enough to buy my friends 500NE but a 450NE Sabatti (Used on my last two safaris) came up and that allowed me to get the Sabatti and Chapuis 9.3x74 both for the same money. I was raised buy a farmer-railroader-horsetrader and I will trade a couple decent rifles/shotguns to get a nice one and then trade a couple nice ones to get a double, trade a double on a better double (Sabatti and Old woodward 500BPE). So currently I have The Chapuis (my favorite rifle) Simson 405 Win (between the wars production), SIACE 45/70, and a Verney Caron 450/400 O/U double. They are all well regulated. On the VC still trying to wrap my head around only looking down one barrel and turning my head sideways to figure if the bullets are crossing but it shoots great. At DCS and SCI I handled most all of the double manufactures products. I like the feel of the Heym. Depending on ones budget will drive the selection of the double for most people. Nice english double for those that have the money. Go for it. But bear in mind like many have pointed out there are NO DEALs on Brit double. If you find what you think is a deal have a DOUBLE rifle gunsmith check it out in detail for you. From those that I have experience with my favourites that are still in production would be 1st VC, 2nd Chapuis, tied 3rd Sabatti and Merkel. last if all you want to do is have a double that you throw on a atv and hunt hogs on a budget the rem/bakil. Now if Heym, Purdey, H&H,Westley Richards, F.LLI PIOTTI would like me to field test one of their bespoke guns for say 20years, I would be willing to take on the tasking Guess I need to win the lottery. Shoot often, shoot straight, shoot more than you can afford, Live life on your terms

 

[sierraone]

For doubles a friend let me shoot his 500 NE Merkel and boy did the double bug bite hard. I started with one of those rem/bakils in 45/70 it had all the lines and grace of a railroad tie but the funny this is the ugly thing shot decent. Traded it and picked up a non-dremeled Sabatti 45/70 that was a major step up. A buddy of mine fell in love with it the first two shots down range and bought it from me. I had saved enough to buy my friends 500NE but a 450NE Sabatti (Used on my last two safaris) came up and that allowed me to get the Sabatti and Chapuis 9.3x74 both for the same money. I was raised buy a farmer-railroader-horsetrader and I will trade a couple decent rifles/shotguns to get a nice one and then trade a couple nice ones to get a double, trade a double on a better double (Sabatti and Old woodward 500BPE). So currently I have The Chapuis (my favorite rifle) Simson 405 Win (between the wars production), SIACE 45/70, and a Verney Caron 450/400 O/U double. They are all well regulated. On the VC still trying to wrap my head around only looking down one barrel and turning my head sideways to figure if the bullets are crossing but it shoots great. At DCS and SCI I handled most all of the double manufactures products. I like the feel of the Heym. Depending on ones budget will drive the selection of the double for most people. Nice english double for those that have the money. Go for it. But bear in mind like many have pointed out there are NO DEALs on Brit double. If you find what you think is a deal have a DOUBLE rifle gunsmith check it out in detail for you. From those that I have experience with my favourites that are still in production would be 1st VC, 2nd Chapuis, tied 3rd Sabatti and Merkel. last if all you want to do is have a double that you throw on a atv and hunt hogs on a budget the rem/bakil. Now if Heym, Purdey, H&H,Westley Richards, F.LLI PIOTTI would like me to field test one of their bespoke guns for say 20years, I would be willing to take on the tasking Guess I need to win the lottery. Shoot often, shoot straight, shoot more than you can afford, Live life on your terms

Great Post, Really enjoyed reading that one!!!

 

[PaulT]

If anything, I think the market in used doubles has cooled a little bit.
In fact I would venture to say it is less expensive to buy a good used (modern) double now than it was 5 years ago.

If you seek diligently you can be lucky.

I saw a little used Merkel .500 N.E. go for $6500 U.S a little while ago.

It's a buyers market in an ever shrinking Dangerous game safari scenario.
There are many doubles in the hands of those who contemplated safaris and who can now no longer justify/afford the expense, and for many of those, hanging on to a $5-$10k double doesn't seem sensible anymore.

 

[Philip Glass]

Where is the best place to find good used doubles?
Regards,
Philip

 

[Velo Dog]

Hi Philip Glass,

Have a look into:

www.gunsinternational.com

Cheers,
Velo Naughty Minkie with no li-saunce.

PS:
Regarding the possibility of firing both barrels of a double by "strumming" the triggers during recoil, just get into the habit of always using the rear trigger (left barrel) first and you will never experience a slippery finger inspired "doubling."

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Where is the best place to find good used doubles?
Regards,
Philip

These guys are in my backyard, strangely I've never been to the shop. They usually have a booth at DSC or SCI, maybe both. Seem to keep a large inventory.

http://williamlarkinmoore.com

 

[PaulT]

Champlins also has a number of new/near new Chapuis in .470 for around the $10k mark.

 

[CAustin]

I have a friend who just sold his Merkel and got a VC. He is one happy man for sure. Frankly, I would love to have a Merkel or a Blaser in a 470 or 500 NE. You guys that have a double should consider yourselves lucky!

 

[PaulT]

I have a friend who just sold his Merkel and got a VC. He is one happy man for sure. Frankly, I would love to have a Merkel or a Blaser in a 470 or 500 NE. You guys that have a double should consider yourselves lucky!

It's not quite as clear cut as that Charlie, at least it wasn't for me.

I found making the transition from the bolt-rifle platform to the double rifle platform very difficult.

In principal it seems all too easy.
Raise the gun, align the sights and let it go, reach for the second trigger and repeat, then reload.

In practice it is quite different.

I found it difficult to match my efficiency, speed and accuracy that I know I am capable with my favourite bolt gun.

I'm not talking about just shooting the gun here, i'm talking about matching a level of proficiency that you would be comfortable with going in to a back-up situation with, and I had to be brutally honest with myself and admit I was not a double rifle shooter.

I do envy those with the natural ability to make the transition seamlessly, unfortunately I was not one of them, and from what I saw over a period of years guiding hunters to buffalo in Australia, there are many others that would be better served with a comfortable and familiar bolt-gun.

 

[HeinrichH]

I've personally have quite a bit of experience with double rifles from Krieghoff, VC, Searcy, Hyem, Rigby, H&H, Merkel, Blaser and so the list goes on. I use a merkel 470 as my backup/work rifle, and i would gladly choose it over and aver again if i had to.

My reason for prefering the Merkel above any other is that its got a nice thick and solid action, very acurate, and its built for tough and hard conditions. As a professional hunter, the rifle of choice should be the one that you will have the least amount of problems with, over many years, of using it every day, and to me personally nothing could compare..

I do however like the Heym and VC a lot, but still prefer the merkel. and if I get the chance in my life i'd like to have a Rigby, but I would use it for my personal hunts then, and not as a working rifle.

In the end it all comes down to what you prefer when it comes to looks, the way it feels and fits you, we all have different likes and dislikes. I for one like the cocking mechanism on the Krieghoff, purely because your double is constantly on your shoulder pointing in all directions. With the cocking mechanism on the Krieghoff, it makes it real safe for those reasons.

But without a doubt I am a Merkel guy, never had any problems, and its been spot on since day one.

 

[CAustin]

It's not quite as clear cut as that Charlie, at least it wasn't for me.

I found making the transition from the bolt-rifle platform to the double rifle platform very difficult.

In principal it seems all too easy.
Raise the gun, align the sights and let it go, reach for the second trigger and repeat, then reload.

In practice it is quite different.

I found it difficult to match my efficiency, speed and accuracy that I know I am capable with my favourite bolt gun.

I'm not talking about just shooting the gun here, i'm talking about matching a level of proficiency that you would be comfortable with going in to a back-up situation with, and I had to be brutally honest with myself and admit I was not a double rifle shooter.

I do envy those with the natural ability to make the transition seamlessly, unfortunately I was not one of them, and from what I saw over a period of years guiding hunters to buffalo in Australia, there are many others that would be better served with a comfortable and familiar bolt-gun.

Had not looked at this side of the double. Thanks Paul

 

[CAustin]

I've personally have quite a bit of experience with double rifles from Krieghoff, VC, Searcy, Hyem, Rigby, H&H, Merkel, Blaser and so the list goes on. I use a merkel 470 as my backup/work rifle, and i would gladly choose it over and aver again if i had to.

My reason for prefering the Merkel above any other is that its got a nice thick and solid action, very acurate, and its built for tough and hard conditions. As a professional hunter, the rifle of choice should be the one that you will have the least amount of problems with, over many years, of using it every day, and to me personally nothing could compare..

I do however like the Heym and VC a lot, but still prefer the merkel. and if I get the chance in my life i'd like to have a Rigby, but I would use it for my personal hunts then, and not as a working rifle.

In the end it all comes down to what you prefer when it comes to looks, the way it feels and fits you, we all have different likes and dislikes. I for one like the cocking mechanism on the Krieghoff, purely because your double is constantly on your shoulder pointing in all directions. With the cocking mechanism on the Krieghoff, it makes it real safe for those reasons.

But without a doubt I am a Merkel guy, never had any problems, and its been spot on since day one.

And your double Heinrich is a beauty. I epically like the story of how you came to purchase it!

 

[AZDAVE]

Phoenix Phil you need to go visit them they have a great gun room, and very good people to deal with.

 

[spike.t]

If anything, I think the market in used doubles has cooled a little bit.
In fact I would venture to say it is less expensive to buy a good used (modern) double now than it was 5 years ago.

If you seek diligently you can be lucky.

I saw a little used Merkel .500 N.E. go for $6500 U.S a little while ago.

It's a buyers market in an ever shrinking Dangerous game safari scenario.
There are many doubles in the hands of those who contemplated safaris and who can now no longer justify/afford the expense, and for many of those, hanging on to a $5-$10k double doesn't seem sensible anymore.

very true paul from what i heard talking to other paul yesterday, and for ones more expensive than those prices you have quoted........

 

[spike.t]

It's not quite as clear cut as that Charlie, at least it wasn't for me.

I found making the transition from the bolt-rifle platform to the double rifle platform very difficult.

In principal it seems all too easy.
Raise the gun, align the sights and let it go, reach for the second trigger and repeat, then reload.

In practice it is quite different.

I found it difficult to match my efficiency, speed and accuracy that I know I am capable with my favourite bolt gun.

I'm not talking about just shooting the gun here, i'm talking about matching a level of proficiency that you would be comfortable with going in to a back-up situation with, and I had to be brutally honest with myself and admit I was not a double rifle shooter.

I do envy those with the natural ability to make the transition seamlessly, unfortunately I was not one of them, and from what I saw over a period of years guiding hunters to buffalo in Australia, there are many others that would be better served with a comfortable and familiar bolt-gun.

so paul is the VC for sale then?........

 

[PaulT]

so paul is the VC for sale then?........

When I closed my buffalo hunts down I could no longer justify keeping all three big-bores.
It was tough deciding, but, in the end, the double had to go down the road.

I had to sell it as there is not a very large market for .500 doubles here in Australia and if I held on to it for too long I would have lost a lot of money on it, so it went first.
My custom .458 Lott is currently on the market and I will always keep my .500 MDM Ultra mag, a rifle I have explicit faith, tremendous familiarity and complete confidence in.
I have been in many "battles" with the MDM and am still here to talk about it so it will be buried with me !
I never grew that much of an attachment to the double.

I must be a simpleton bolt-trash shooter

 

[spike.t]

When I closed my buffalo hunts down I could no longer justify keeping all three big-bores.
It was tough deciding, but, in the end, the double had to go down the road.

I had to sell it as there is not a very large market for .500 doubles here in Australia and if I held on to it for too long I would have lost a lot of money on it, so it went first.
My custom .458 Lott is currently on the market and I will always keep my .500 MDM Ultra mag, a rifle I have explicit faith, tremendous familiarity and complete confidence in.
I have been in many "battles" with the MDM and am still here to talk about it so it will be buried with me !
I never grew that much of an attachment to the double.

I must be a simpleton bolt-trash shooter

thats depressing having to choose which had to go......but as for your last sentence ....well you are an upside down person .... so we wont hold it against you for confessing........dont depress me by telling me what your vc went for.......it was the perfect double weight and barrel length wise.....