Can you save having taxidermy work done in South Africa

[billc]

I thought I would give a run down on my cost from mounting/crating/shipping/import fees. The numbers are all based on 2014 pricing when I got quote for work to be done. At the time I also got catalogs from 2 well know places. One is a hour from my house and who I believe does some of the best work in my eyes. The other is someone we all know well.

As of 2014 all the studious had different pricing for pedestal mounts. My local studio had them figured out in there price guide. The other studio said in catalog 30% more based on shoulder mount. I did not use the 30% and did go with a lower %.The place I use in SA does also charge more for pedestal and my prices are based on if shoulder or pedestal mounts.

My amount of work I had done was a lot and not everyone may save as much. I did not only base my choice on prices as there is cheaper places in SA. I myself think the place I use does the best work in SA. Is there better maybe but the difference from the studio I use here was not enough to make me say no to picking the place I did in SA. First nunbers are SA place second is the one we all know and the 3 row of pricing is my local place.

Giraffe ped. 2250 6500 4750
kudu wall ped 840 1500 1525
impala shoulder 415 725 695
impala shoulder 415 725 695
eland ped 1025 2000 2250
eland ped 1025 2000 2250
lioness lifesize 3500 5000 4850
bushbuck shoulder 435 725 695
bushbuck shoulder 435 725 695
bushbuck ped 475 850 825
black wildebeest ped 810 1050 1165
orbi wall ped 530 495 585
4 springbuck wall ped 1840 2380 3100
nyala ped 650 1000 1085
zebra ped 780 1200 1275
blesbuck shoulder 450 725 715
blue wildebeest ped 850 1050 1035
blue wildebeest ped 85o 1050 1035
steinbuck ped 430 495 595
red hartebeest ped 675 1000 1025

total animal mount 18,680 34,695* 28,520 [added by @AfricaHunting.com: (* see @PHOENIX PHIL calculation of $31,195 at the following post below: http://www.africahunting.com/thread...-work-done-in-south-africa.30060/#post-282445)]

real shipping fee I paid 4900
for 2 crates

guessing on just fees/ shipping 1500 1500

dip/pack none 2200 2200
crating 1400 300 300
clearing fees 850 300 300
total 25,830 38,995 32,82o


I did get a 5% discount from the place in SA that would come off the total of animal pricing but that was based on the amount of animals. Maybe the other places would have done a discount also but I do not know. It is easy to say they would now after seeing the pricing they need to match or beat. So I did not take the 5% off of my total and the SA prices are based on catalog just like the others.My clearing fees were more because I had the order shipped in two stages because I wanted to get the lioness out when all the bs with lions started or it would have been 450 but I wanted to show all I paid out.

Everyone can say all they want about quality but this was based on my choice so and I am very happy with the quality of work. I did not do this to say mine are better or your cost to much but to show the facts on my order. Prices could be different now as it is 2016.

 

[billc]

I did forget one thing must add 600 to my SA cost as I had to ship stuff down from the northwest to the cape.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

@billc

Thank you for providing some numbers. A few initial thoughts:

1) On another forum someone started a thread about "a well known booking agent" without actually naming who it was, but of course busy minds will figure it out. To me that's lame. Rather than doing that just say who it is, we're all grownups here. I'll presume the "someone we all know well" is Dennis @The Artistry of Wildlife.

1) I concur with your total animal amount of $18680 for what you paid in RSA, this after adding up all the amounts you listed using Excel spreadsheet.

2) I do not concur with the $34,695 amount you're attributing to Dennis' charges. Using the same spreadsheet I come up with $31,195*.

3) On Dennis' charges, I think he already mentioned in the other thread that his listed prices are now not correct, perhaps I'm wrong. Furthermore, I know he also offers a discount on volume. So Dennis, please show us what you would have charged for this work in 2014 so we have an accurate comparison. Even if it's 2016 prices, I'd guess that would be close enough to get a reasonably accurate comparison.

4) Shipping from RSA: $4900 for 2 crates to your door? With one crate being a lion and the other crate amongst all those other critters holding a giraffe? This seems quite low.

5) Dennis' Shipping: I assume you meant shipping of hides/horns to his place, correct? Presuming so I'd rather not have guesses, though I understand you're doing the best you can there. Perhaps Robert SSI can give an accurate estimate?

 

[harden]

Well Biil if your talking about me just use my name I am NOT ashamed of it at ALL or my WORK !
And your addition is WAY OFF by thousands...I mean thousands !! That's misleading, But it must me you even posted this post on mine so I would come here. I have no idea if you priced my studio and what column I am because your addition of off those columns is off by thousands and misleading....You types it, I didn't I just added them 3 times and they are not right on my calculator.

over 20K 5% discount . Over 30K 10% discount
Delivery within 800 miles -----500 to your door any big safari
I have Royals Physical receipts and my prices are posted on my website , And your other guy near your is that Wes?

Been looking round the forum lately and don't see your taxidermist in Africa Supporting AH in any way shape or form with sponsorship or banner ads??? but sure gets a lot of free advertising by you.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

One other question, where did the $2200 fee for dip/pack come from? I'm not doubting the number as I really have no idea. Was that from the taxidermist in RSA?

 

[harden]

Phil, Later I'm mounting a lion right now...I's be close probably within about 5k. maybe 20% more , I'd like to see the BOL and Invoice on shipping. I have Royals.
Support advertisers that SUPPORT AH i/e $4,000 a year banner ads on this site and support american companies and american workers that are your fellow hunters and guys like you that live for hunting and fishing !

 

[harden]

One other question, where did the $2200 fee for dip/pack come from? I'm not doubting the number as I really have no idea. Was that from the taxidermist in RSA?

Real close I'm guessing but that about for that size safari. haven't look at PAUL sheet yet

 

[billc]

Maybe I fat fingered that total so if you say 31,195 that works for me. Yes the one total is dennis from his catalog and I was nice with the numbers if you go by the 30% for ped mount. The other is wildlife studious.

That shipping is to jfk which is 1 1/2 hours away so I pick them up. At this point it is all guessing at what shipping would be for others but I feel I was more then fair with what I figured.

The prices on shipping were better then I ever thought they would be. That is from rex freight and what I have out of pocket.

The shipping to the other guys was based really as far as jfk could be more I guess but again what I think is fair.

It will be easy now for anyone to say what they want but everything I did on my list was current prices by there pricelist in 2014. Like I said maybe they would give a discount maybe not.

dip/pack was figured at 90 per animal and a little more for the giraffe and full skinned lioness.

 

[billc]

Phil, Later I'm mounting a lion right now...I's be close probably within about 5k. maybe 20% more , I'd like to see the BOL and Invoice on shipping. I have Royals.
Support advertisers that SUPPORT AH i/e $4,000 a year banner ads on this site and support american companies and american workers that are your fellow hunters and guys like you that live for hunting and fishing !

How many of the sponsor have you hunted with in Africa or have you hunted with non sponsors to. When I planned on my taxidermy I do not believe you were a sponsor yet. Could be wrong not sure. I guess with that logic we should all just hunt in the united states we have stuff to hunt.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Like I said maybe they would give a discount maybe not.

As mentioned, I have no dog in this fight. I'm interested only in knowing the real numbers for myself, fellow AH'ers and anyone who asks me. So I want to make sure I understand you, are you suggesting that Dennis would not honor the discount that he's advertised here and I would guess also on his website?

 

[harden]

Bill at this point I no longer wish to communicate with you in any manner, or further waste my time on your posts.
Good day.

 

[billc]

I am saying I do not know what they would do. I will not speak for them but my point it is easy to say they would now. When this stuff was priced out by me in 2014 I cant say if dennis had that mount special were you get one free or not.

I am not trying to make this about anything but helping others also. If people are taking it personal then that is on them. I just get sick of all the so called facts that guys put out when each case can be different. That goes for taxidermy, hunting, food. lodging price in general.

I have helped more then one person on here and it has nothing to do if they hunt with paw print or use relive taxidermy. I try and pass on the info I have learn and help anyone I can.

 

[harden]

Bill any of your taxidermy posts lately you talk and hawk Pauls place like you work for it. It not a secret that you rave about it ..
That's cool. Would like to see some close up faces of these mount, not from 10 feet away.
Just a PS A great taxidermist USED to work for Paul, He no longer does far as I know, he is on his own, I know a few people that have worked for relive. no longer there. One works now for my freind Rudi and Travis is in his own studio now.
At the Artistry of Wildlife you know who is mounting your trophy, me.

 

[Wheels]

I thought I would give a run down on my cost from mounting/crating/shipping/import fees. The numbers are all based on 2014 pricing when I got quote for work to be done. At the time I also got catalogs from 2 well know places. One is a hour from my house and who I believe does some of the best work in my eyes. The other is someone we all know well.

As of 2014 all the studious had different pricing for pedestal mounts. My local studio had them figured out in there price guide. The other studio said in catalog 30% more based on shoulder mount. I did not use the 30% and did go with a lower %.The place I use in SA does also charge more for pedestal and my prices are based on if shoulder or pedestal mounts.

My amount of work I had done was a lot and not everyone may save as much. I did not only base my choice on prices as there is cheaper places in SA. I myself think the place I use does the best work in SA. Is there better maybe but the difference from the studio I use here was not enough to make me say no to picking the place I did in SA. First nunbers are SA place second is the one we all know and the 3 row of pricing is my local place.

Giraffe ped. 2250 6500 4750
kudu wall ped 840 1500 1525
impala shoulder 415 725 695
impala shoulder 415 725 695
eland ped 1025 2000 2250
eland ped 1025 2000 2250
lioness lifesize 3500 5000 4850
bushbuck shoulder 435 725 695
bushbuck shoulder 435 725 695
bushbuck ped 475 850 825
black wildebeest ped 810 1050 1165
orbi wall ped 530 495 585
4 springbuck wall ped 1840 2380 3100
nyala ped 650 1000 1085
zebra ped 780 1200 1275
blesbuck shoulder 450 725 715
blue wildebeest ped 850 1050 1035
blue wildebeest ped 85o 1050 1035
steinbuck ped 430 495 595
red hartebeest ped 675 1000 1025

total animal mount 18,680 34,695 28,520
real shipping fee I paid 4900
for 2 crates

guessing on just fees/ shipping 1500 1500

dip/pack none 2200 2200
crating 1400 300 300
clearing fees 850 300 300
total 25,830 38,995 32,82o


I did get a 5% discount from the place in SA that would come off the total of animal pricing but that was based on the amount of animals. Maybe the other places would have done a discount also but I do not know. It is easy to say they would now after seeing the pricing they need to match or beat. So I did not take the 5% off of my total and the SA prices are based on catalog just like the others.My clearing fees were more because I had the order shipped in two stages because I wanted to get the lioness out when all the bs with lions started or it would have been 450 but I wanted to show all I paid out.

Everyone can say all they want about quality but this was based on my choice so and I am very happy with the quality of work. I did not do this to say mine are better or your cost to much but to show the facts on my order. Prices could be different now as it is 2016.

Bill,

It would be helpful if you:

1. Post a copy of your invoices

and

2. Post a copy of the price lists you are getting your numbers from.


That makes it much easier for us to see, and for Phil to post to Excel.

Thanks

 

[billc]

dennis when you realize I am ok to talk about who I do just like you can you may not take this stuff so personal. I have not started a thread putting you down or talking badly about you. I join on threads were I am able to give my side and that is what I do. You are the one who comes up with the apple vs orange bs or I am better. You the only one who ever won the world championship. If not I guess there are others who can say they are the best to.

Your stuff is amazing and I never said other wise. It is art work just like you say it is. My choice is not to have MY stuff mounted to look like it just came out of getting a make over and better then it did in the wild. That again is MY choice as per what I like others love your stuff and that is there choice.

I am not saying my stuff from them is perfect but is right for ME the CUSTOMER who is picking at the time. We all have are likes and dislikes and thankful free to have that.

I do not keep track of his staff and as long as I am happy I will use them. If I feel I am not getting what I like I will look else were.

If you feel like not joining in on my post that is your right. I am still going to be me and say my thoughts. Yes they differ from a lot of people but that is who I am.

 

[Royal27]

Just make it fair and equal Bill. That's all - same work, same costs added up. That's what Dennis did in his comparison with my work. So.... Since you added the discount to Paul's it is only fair to add it to @The Artistry of Wildlife . Dennis states his discount over $30k is 10%. I'll use Phil's corrected number of $31,195 since you agree that is the right number. The new number for Dennis is now $28,076.

I don't have time to refigure the shipping costs right now and don't have all of your invoiced numbers anyway, but suffice it to say the totals are much closer than in your original estimate. Looks like Dennis was right - on your shipment 20% delta tops to his numbers. Still a savings with Relive, n0 doubt, in your particular case. But, not the savings you have talked about. I'm sure you still would have made the same decision, not questioning that at all.

I stand by what I've stated. The difference in getting taxidermy done in the States or Africa isn't as big as many think (and that I thought), and in some cases (mine at least) would have been less here. I also want to be VERY clear here. I don't regret using Relive at all. Once my stuff gets here I'll post up pictures and finish that report too. It will be positive I assure you.

I do want to share my experience with others and make sure they have more information than I had at the time. That's where all of this started. I had done all the math, but I didn't use all of the right numbers.

 

[billc]

. The numbers maybe higher on this form as this is the 2016 pricelist not the 2014. I lost that pricelist and invoice from relive on my other laptop when it crashed a few month ago. As you will see if you look at the pricelist my numbers are right there and I have no reason to make them up.

You will see the first invoice which is my crate with the lioness and plains game. It is 3899.00 which 2500.00 is mine the rest is for lees crate which you will see noted on the invoice.

The second one I do not have the invoice yet as the crate is just shipping but there is the quote from rex. That has the giraffe and other plains game in it. The bill is 2321.00 to ship crate and the last quote was to the penny.

 

[harden]

No I just mount things and finish them back the their original condition after being drug the salt, soaked in acid baths and pickle and tans and get faded from all those things, it's scientific fact. It takes all the vivid colors to dull...Plus airbrushing hair loss from bad skinning and salting and tanning and knife cuts from skinners that sharpen their knives on rocks. That's all. It's out of my respect for the animal and people do love it. It can be done without doing anything and then they look kinda drap, and not as bright vivid and as beautiful as they were walking around alive. That's all I don't fake anything, it is the essence of the animal and it's true life beauty...Here is an examle of a LIVING NYALA....I would like to know Bill, is a makeover? and looks better than it did in the wild? This is what a nyala should look like and what I try to give back to clients not one that has been out thru salt, acid, tan and all the other things a skin goes thru dip pack big proofing etc. Look at the COLORS The orange the white the markings the brilliance of the fur and coat, Do you know what happens to a skin that is soaked in acid for dip pack and for every kind of tanning? I give my client the best of their trophies not a drab look unless they want it. You guys see me post nyala and I have mounted quite a few for many of you , very Realistic...

 

[billc]

Just make it fair and equal Bill. That's all - same work, same costs added up. That's what Dennis did in his comparison with my work. So.... Since you added the discount to Paul's it is only fair to add it to @The Artistry of Wildlife . Dennis states his discount over $30k is 10%. I'll use Phil's corrected number of $31,195 since you agree that is the right number. The new number for Dennis is now $28,076.

I don't have time to refigure the shipping costs right now and don't have all of your invoiced numbers anyway, but suffice it to say the totals are much closer than in your original estimate. Looks like Dennis was right - on your shipment 20% delta tops to his numbers. Still a savings with Relive, n0 doubt, in your particular case. But, not the savings you have talked about. I'm sure you still would have made the same decision, not questioning that at all.

I stand by what I've stated. The difference in getting taxidermy done in the States or Africa isn't as big as many think (and that I thought), and in some cases (mine at least) would have been less here. I also want to be VERY clear here. I don't regret using Relive at all. Once my stuff gets here I'll post up pictures and finish that report too. It will be positive I assure you.

I do want to share my experience with others and make sure they have more information than I had at the time. That's where all of this started. I had done all the math, but I didn't use all of the right numbers.

Royal did my numbers more then fair. I did not take the 5% off the relive total as posted just wanted it known I did get a break. I also did not use dennis's 30% for peds like his catalog said and did a way smaller %. Eland 1695 plus 30% = 2203 I figured it at 2000. Giraffe I did at 6500 when it clearly shows in his catalog 5995 plus 30% or 7500 for a straight up ped. which I have a turned neck which took time to do and sure would cost more. There is still extra hardware for a ped mount so I would think some fee.

I did a fair dip/pack using pauls numbers when some charge more dennis has said. There will be some guessing being done no matter what because we will never know what the real freight would be because this order will never be shipped as a dip/pack so no way to weigh or measure size. Again I think my figures are fair for shipping and all paperwork or on the low side.

See I am not trying to make one look bad the other great. I am showing what my facts are and I don't care if it is 1000 different it is cheaper like I said plain and simple. To many guys like to say the difference is not enough or you get what you pay for when some guys are happy with getting what they pay for. That thousand may mean more to some then others. I work with and help a bunch of people who that thousand means the world to. So let me try and spell it out to be clear.

this is not directed at anyone person but the point I am trying to make. USE WHO EVER YOU LIKE AND PAY WHAT EVER YOUR WILLING TO. Just do your homework and get a few quotes and pick the one that works for you.

So I was more then fair with all my math and more so towards it favoring dennis by what his own catalog reads. I could have saved more by shipping all at once on shipping and import fees but I picked to ship the lioness right away.That cost me about 1000 extra with shipping and fees. So my saving could have been more but I wanted to show my numbers on what the order cost me. I also over figured my coppersmith fee it was only 350 and 350 this time so 700 not 850 like I said. I always went high with my numbers and did lower for the others.

 

[harden]

How many of the sponsor have you hunted with in Africa or have you hunted with non sponsors to. When I planned on my taxidermy I do not believe you were a sponsor yet. Could be wrong not sure. I guess with that logic we should all just hunt in the united states we have stuff to hunt.

NO.....Billc my logic, and I think I can make my point real clear also....Support Americans where and when I can and even if it hurts a little. Why because i'm tired of this BS about loving america and then DO NOTHING ABOUT IT ! Hunt Africa all you want and every time you can. I think everyone should experience it .IT"S FANTASTIC ! BUT you CAN support American Business and Fellow Americans, Don't wave your flag at me and then buy the cheapest foreign made stuff you can find. Even when I buy appliances I look for American made. I would walk before buying a car not made by americans. I TRY really hard to do it, even when it costs me a few more dollars...WHY because I'm supporting The United States, Families in MY COUNTRY , so if your just watching out for your own checkbook. Don't talk to me about patriotism or how great your country is....Support your own ! And the quality is better in taxidermy I know something about that...
Here are south african wages, your supporting this......below. PS. For a reference 5000 rand a month is $340.00 a month for a salary. My two employees make more than that in one day and our work as you see it still competitive in any the market. Yes I raise my flag high for my country, a lot of others also.....for show, do but with no conviction.....Yes I'm going to hear it now, like Billc stated he can talk about what he wants to talk about , so can I.
I don't care, I am proud to support american businesses. Bring the work back HOME !!!

KNOW who is mounting your trophy, Even here in the states big box taxidermy studios have many many many employees,who has your stuff laid on there workbench by the foreman? the new guy? The guy that's kinda okay? disgruntled employee? Burned out employee? Guy looking to make his weekly quota and is behind? Lots of things to think about....I am NOT your typical studio I MOUNT EVERY TROPHY MYSELF and Jamie finished every one himself . The other helps me with forms and salts skins and sews.....


LINK some make as little as 1.00per hour
http://www.mywage.co.za/main/salary/minimum-wages