Can you save having taxidermy work done in South Africa

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I've got a hunt scheduled in 2017.. For now I only intend on having a couple of European mounts on shields and a few rugs made... and have thought about having a soft rifle case done up out of a hartebeest hide as well.. I do not intend on doing any shoulder or full body type mounts.. no pedestals.. etc..etc..

I understand there is some controversy and debate over the quality of work done by some African taxidermists vs the quality of work that can be acquired from a taxidermist in the US..

But when we're talking skulls and rugs.. I'm wondering if there is typically that much difference in quality? (I'm sincerely asking.. I don't know the answer..)..

My experience in Africa with leather work (not taxidermy) is that there are some extremely good artisans out there and high quality is available if you know where to look for it.. Ive got a leather belt that I had made in Tanzania in 2008 (I paid about $15) that still looks as good today as it did the day I bought it.. Its outlasted a similar belt made by Columbia that I bought around the same time period ($40)... I've also got a Sandstorm leather briefcase ($400) that was made in Kenya that is equally (if not better) constructed than the Coach briefcase ($595) I used to carry.. there are several threads on this board that tout the quality of Courtney boots (made in Zimbabwe)...

Surely there are African taxidermists that can produce a quality rug, rifle case, and euro mount?

The difference in pricing I have seen from a couple of local area taxidermists in the US that are known to do good work (DFW area) vs the price list I have on hand from 1 African taxidermist that seems to have a decent reputation (Capricorn) seems pretty significant.. for example:

DFW area Taxidermist - Kudu Euro Mount on Shield = $375
Capricorn - Kudu Euro Mount on Shield = $230

DFW area Taxidermist - Hartebeest Euro Mount on Shield = $345
Capricorn - Hartebeest Euro Mount on Shield = $165


Whether I use a US taxidermist or an African taxidermist I am going to be paying shipping costs, export permit fees, etcc.. I assume those are going to be roughly the same whether the items are shipped from Africa to a taxidermist in the US or if they are shipped to my home as completed trophies?

And if I use a US taxidermist I am going to have to pay for dip and pack services... whereas if I have the work done in Africa those costs are avoided?

With Euro mounts, I would think your shipping costs will be pretty similar whether they're done here or over there. The volume of the shipping crate can't really be that much different, nor the weight.

Having said that, cleaning a skull isn't necessarily as much a slam dunk as you'd think. Boil the skulls too long or too high a heat and they become brittle from what I understand.

 

[harden]

Well here is where you can save, With a dip pack the skulls are cleaned and bleached pretty much already when they ship so you pay 90-100 on the dip pack for a Kudu...even less of no cape is involved and when it arrives at my studio it's 90% complete....I just report any damage fix it if needed make sure it white and attach to a euro panel.......125.00-150.00
Nuf said? Your going to a pay shipping on that skull either way you do it....

You are right on the leather products... EXCELLANT TANNERIES FOR LEATHER PRODUCTS !!!!


SEE U S taxidermists can also take advantage of you not knowing how clean dip and pack skulls come in yes , very clean....

 

[billc]

phil great post but also remember if I am taking the 10% for a discount from dennis some of the numbers would have been higher. I did kind of figure in a discount with the pricing by using a smaller % for ped mounts instead of the 30% he has in the catalog. Plus at 6500 for the giraffe that was even cheaper then the 7500 shown again in his catalog. Plus I never took the 5% off my relive total so my saving are another 985. I was really not trying to show to the penny and on ever item I listed. I went on the high side or the real numbers on my stuff from relive and less by the catalog on the two here in the states.

The trophy clearance got brought in because in the one case dennis used coppersmith which is cheaper then the service royal used. Can't be a fair dennis vs relive pricing when one gets to pick the service they want but the other gets the cost figured in from royal picking the place that charges more. After all it is part of the cost and if we do this so people can see the truth all cost should be shown.

I went in figuring on this order I was going to save around 8000 after all was done. I can tell you with out a doubt I have done that.Guess what that saving is going towards in july. Best of all I picked a place I wanted to work with and had great service by them. Was taken care of and had all done to what I wanted. From a custom pose lioness to eland peds made to what I thought they should be.

It all comes down to what animals and how many on what you will save if anything at all. Figuring out taxidermy cost on my next trip now. If I get what I am planning I again will save by doing over there. Life size baboon, life size bushpig , half mount nyala and bushbuck , maybe life size kilspringer maybe just a shoulder that one is up in the air yet. Then also maybe a genet lifesize to. Then shoulder mounts of red hartebeest and black wildebeest and who knows what else. I need to get them in the salt first but I will save thousands again using the place I pick.

I do want everyone to understand this was not done to put anyone down. It was to show the other side of getting work down over in SA. Each case will be different and should be looked at by each hunter to see if it is worth looking at there option.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

phil great post but also remember if I am taking the 10% for a discount from dennis some of the numbers would have been higher. I did kind of figure in a discount with the pricing by using a smaller % for ped mounts instead of the 30% he has in the catalog. Plus at 6500 for the giraffe that was even cheaper then the 7500 shown again in his catalog. Plus I never took the 5% off my relive total so my saving are another 985. I was really not trying to show to the penny and on ever item I listed. I went on the high side or the real numbers on my stuff from relive and less by the catalog on the two here in the states.

The trophy clearance got brought in because in the one case dennis used coppersmith which is cheaper then the service royal used. Can't be a fair dennis vs relive pricing when one gets to pick the service they want but the other gets the cost figured in from royal picking the place that charges more. After all it is part of the cost and if we do this so people can see the truth all cost should be shown.

I went in figuring on this order I was going to save around 8000 after all was done. I can tell you with out a doubt I have done that.Guess what that saving is going towards in july. Best of all I picked a place I wanted to work with and had great service by them. Was taken care of and had all done to what I wanted. From a custom pose lioness to eland peds made to what I thought they should be.

It all comes down to what animals and how many on what you will save if anything at all. Figuring out taxidermy cost on my next trip now. If I get what I am planning I again will save by doing over there. Life size baboon, life size bushpig , half mount nyala and bushbuck , maybe life size kilspringer maybe just a shoulder that one is up in the air yet. Then also maybe a genet lifesize to. Then shoulder mounts of red hartebeest and black wildebeest and who knows what else. I need to get them in the salt first but I will save thousands again using the place I pick.

I do want everyone to understand this was not done to put anyone down. It was to show the other side of getting work down over in SA. Each case will be different and should be looked at by each hunter to see if it is worth looking at there option.

Whatever the case, the percentage would still come out to around 20% less than what Dennis would have charged you, taking 20% off Dennis' charges. Dennis never challenged that and just eyeballing figured that's what it would be.

As far as what you say you'll save in the future.......well I'm an engineer Bill. I work in an office full of other engineers and with managers who are also engineers. My daily work life involves numbers, including statistics to a great degree. We have a saying, "In God we trust, all others bring data." The point being is while I'll give more deference to engineers who have more experience or established credibility and are even good friends, in the end they all still have to show the numbers. It's nothing personal, just how we are.

So how about this, send your list of what you expect to do on this next safari to Dennis and let him work up a quote. Give Dennis, you know another working man like yourself and AH sponsor, a chance to earn your business. Dennis I'm sure would be willing to have it posted here on this thread. In the end if you still want to use Relive, by all means do. But if that's the case then please post your totals by going that direction. Deal?

 

[billc]

I am not sure if dennis would want to give me a quote at this point. If he does I posted above in the thread of what I hope to have mounted from my next trip.

Thanks for checking the math on this post and writing what you did. I hope it will help and few hunters maybe understand more about there trips.

 

[Royal27]

I went on the high side or the real numbers on my stuff from relive and less by the catalog on the two here in the states.

No offense Bill, but this right here kind of makes me not even want to look at your numbers. They aren't real either way it appears. I said this in the other thread, but will say it here for those who read this in the future. I wanted to put REAL numbers out there because we so rarely see them. We always hear that guys saved tons, but nothing to back it. Thats human nature, and also human nature not to come out publicly when you're on the other side of the savings. Also realize that this started as challenge to me from Dennis over a year ago way before I knew the real costs. He told me it would be a heck of a lot closer than I thought and he was right.

We, myself included, keep throwing around that 20% number too, but take out the savings on the giraffe and that goes down significantly, as I think Phil said (sorry doing this on phone while on way to airport, then SA). Point of that is not that you didn't save money, but that the decision is much closer for most people unless you shoot an animal or animals that is really expensive to mount.

. Can't be a fair dennis vs relive pricing when one gets to pick the service they want but the other gets the cost figured in from royal picking the place that charges mor

We will have to disagree on this point Bill. The entire point of the exercise was to look at the decisions that I made versus what would have happened with Dennis. It is totally fair to compare real numbers, not guesstimate, in total. Plus, easy enough to take those costs out if you want. You know mine and you know Coppersmith. Again, I wanted to show total cost to get finished trophies from the salt room to the wall.

 

[harden]

Royal, HAVE A GREAT TIME !!!
ENJOY !!

 

[Wheels]

(sorry doing this on phone while on way to airport, then SA)..

Have a blast. Looking forward to hearing all about it.

Royal armed to the teeth riding MARTA. Was very uncomfortable wishing I was armed on MARTA once.

 

[Royal27]

Have a blast. Looking forward to hearing all about it.

Royal armed to the teeth riding MARTA. Was very uncomfortable wishing I was armed on MARTA once.

Will do Bob and thanks!!!

I had a horrifying experience in Marta once. It was a Saturday night and the Brittany Spears concert had just let out. Every 12 year old screaming girl and their mothers all dressed like Brittany got on my train. Still gives me night sweats.....

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Have a blast. Looking forward to hearing all about it.

Royal armed to the teeth riding MARTA. Was very uncomfortable wishing I was armed on MARTA once.

Will do Bob and thanks!!!

I had a horrifying experience in Marta once. It was a Saturday night and the Brittany Spears concert had just let out. Every 12 year old screaming girl and their mothers all dressed like Brittany got on my train. Still gives me night sweats.....

I guess it's a good thing I didn't ask out loud who MARTA is and if Nancy knows anything about her......

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I am not sure if dennis would want to give me a quote at this point. If he does I posted above in the thread of what I hope to have mounted from my next trip.

Dennis @The Artistry of Wildlife, you game?

 

[CAustin]

I have ridden MARTA myself and been none too comfortable! I never told my wife either!

Royal when you headed over again?

 

[billc]

Royal my numbers are real and there to been seen by those who care to look. If rounding my shipping from 4821 to 4900 makes my numbers no good I guess someone was looking to hard in to what I was trying to show. I just did some low ball guessing on Dennis's numbers as you can plainly see the prices I used are all lower. Did not want to do them all on the high side then be told I was not fair to him. Even the way I did them I saved what I think is a lot of money and would only be more.

As I have said plenty of times in my post not everyone will save doing them in SA. The fact is I did and that is my point. You did not and it is what it is at this point.


Go have fun hunting with bossie and have a safe trip. You take a bushpig before I do I am driving down to Ga when you get back and getting your ### ! LOL

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I have ridden MARTA myself and been none too comfortable! I never told my wife either!

Royal when you headed over again?

I'd guess wheels up sometime in the next 3-4 hours.

 

[Wheels]

I'd guess wheels up sometime in the next 3-4 hours.

No, Royals up in the next 3-4 hours.

Wheels, stuck on the ground this summer.

 

[billc]

No, Royals up in the next 3-4 hours.

Wheels, stuck on the ground this summer.

Now that is funny. We have a heat wave here in PA I can not even think how stinking hot it is in GA.

 

[CAustin]

No, Royals up in the next 3-4 hours.

Wheels, stuck on the ground this summer.

You are too funny man!

 

[wesheltonj]

Here’s another:

Highveld Dennis:

Blesbok 598 795

Gemsbok 872 1100

R Harteb. 805 1050

Impala 601 795

Springbok 574 695

Pack & C 668

C Permit 65
5192 4435

Add 540 to Dennis for Dip and pack @ 90 each. That now puts Dennis @4975. Dennis is still cheaper. Plus Dennis, as a first time customer will give the cheapest one free with 7 or more. How when you add shipper to Dennis and then to my home in Texas the shipping might be a wash. The bottom line is, even if Dennis was somewhat more expensive, its still cheaper to deal with problems here in the USA then in the RSA.

 

[Lee M]

Mdwest - For just skins and simple skulls I think getting done in Africa is cheapest and the quality is not really an issue or differentiator. As you mention, No D&P fees so that adds to a potential cost difference and shipping cost the same. I think Dennis also may have stated this earlier in the post? Not sure if any SA outfits specialize or make decent quality items such as rifle cases, belts, etc. I would be interested in this info as well. I did get flatskins and back skins of Zebra, Impala and blue wildebeest in 2014 and they are all good. I used some to reupholster a chair and it looks good. I suppose you could send tanned skins to someone in US to make special items if you don't find a good place in SA. Not sure of cost in US? If you get this info let me know. Thx

 

[billc]

Mdwest - For just skins and simple skulls I think getting done in Africa is cheapest and the quality is not really an issue or differentiator. As you mention, No D&P fees so that adds to a potential cost difference and shipping cost the same. I think Dennis also may have stated this earlier in the post? Not sure if any SA outfits specialize or make decent quality items such as rifle cases, belts, etc. I would be interested in this info as well. I did get flatskins and back skins of Zebra, Impala and blue wildebeest in 2014 and they are all good. I used some to reupholster a chair and it looks good. I suppose you could send tanned skins to someone in US to make special items if you don't find a good place in SA. Not sure of cost in US? If you get this info let me know. Thx

I have info on places that makes stuff out of skins already. You just need to ask better question when you make your plans. LOL Just think we are down to under 3 weeks now and I will be backing you up on your giraffe hunt. For your protection.