Crf Rifles Encountered While Hunting?

[CoElkHunter]

I don’t own a Remington 700. But it’s interesting according to your chart, the Remington is preferred to the subsequent listed rifles. How much more do those rifle brands cost? Significantly more I’m sure!

 

[HuntingGold]

It was just a chart put together by the author while doing a survey at a long range match. Nothing scientific, just what he encountered at these matches.

It should also be noted that some of these matches are timed. I'm not sure if the matches the author surveyed were timed or not. Therefore if a certain brand or type of action had a reputation for regularly, or even irregularly having a feeding problem, you probably wouldn't see it on the list. Just a thought to consider.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Your right, the chart has nothing to do with hunting, but which of those rifle brands listed are push feed vs. CRF actions? Just curious.

 

[Tanks]

This is mainly a quasi survey for U.S. hunters, but how many CRF actioned rifles have you seen while hunting? In thirty plus years of hunting in Colorado and Wyoming, I've seen one (unless the Ruger M77 counts as semi?) after observing and talking to many, many other hunters. Just interesting.

All the bolt rifles I own, even the .22, are CRF.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I do not know how pre-64 M70s were made, but I would guess that of the ones that were hunted better than 95% were hunted in the U.S. and never saw Africa. That is a helluva lot of rifles, not to mention all of the converted military Mausers.

 

[HuntingGold]

Your right, the chart has nothing to do with hunting, but which of those rifle brands listed are push feed vs. CRF actions? Just curious.

To my knowledge, most of those represented in the chart are push feed.

It's just a snapshot of what is going on in that circuit... Not a complete answer and certainly not the definitive answer to the question in this thread.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

They’re nice actions, but heavier and not generally as smooth as push feeds. And maybe, generally more expensive?

Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles and stutzen have controlled round feed actions and are renowned for their lightness.

The smoothness of a Mannlicher Schoenauer action is second to none.

 

[CoElkHunter]

All the bolt rifles I own, even the .22, are CRF.

There’s something to be said about consistency! Same actions using muscle memory when manipulating the same type rifles. That’s great!

 

[HuntingGold]

As a retired game warden who encountered many hunters in the field and one who seized many firearms from criminals, it was a smattering of actions across the board. Bolt actions (mostly push feed), lever actions, slide (pump) actions, single shots and quite a few semi-autos were seen. I had to handle them all.

Of note, action types encountered often could be associated with age-class or generation of hunter. For example, the younger crowd likes the AR-15 platform and plastic while the older crowd likes something more traditional and in wood. I can go deeper than this.... It's just a generalization.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles and stutzen have controlled round feed actions and are renowned for their lightness.

The smoothness of a Mannlicher Schoenauer action is second to none.

Well, I guess I was mistaken. Sorry. My only experience with CRFs are Interarms Whitworths and CZ 550s. I LOVE both actions, but they are a little rougher and the rifles heavier than my Browning .338?

 

[CoElkHunter]

As a retired game warden who encountered many hunters in the field and one who seized many firearms from criminals, it was a smattering of actions across the board. Bolt actions (mostly push feed), lever actions, slide (pump) actions, single shots and quite a few semi-autos were seen. I had to handle them all.

Of note, action types encountered often could be associated with age-class or generation of hunter. For example, the younger crowd likes the AR-15 platform and plastic while the older crowd likes something more traditional and in wood. I can go deeper than this.... It's just a generalization.

No, it’s a great historical observation and relevant to this thread. I created this thread to explore the “why” push feed rifles are maybe more common in the U.S. than CRFs? I believe it’s generational and passed down to new hunters?

 

[Alistair]

Very interesting! I would have thought in the UK and Europe, Mauser actioned rifles would be more prevalent? But I agree, there is no advantage to having a CRF actioned rifle for non DG. They’re nice actions, but heavier and not generally as smooth as push feeds. And maybe, generally more expensive?

I don't think there's many of them around at a reasonable price point though.

I mean, you can buy a proper Mauser 98, but that's a very different market to say a Tikka or a Rem 700. Even the Win 70 is slightly more than the Euro guns or the R700 in the UK, plus it just doesn't seem to have much of a sales network. There's always CZ, but they're still more than most PRF options and rightly or wrongly they have a reputation for needing fettling to be reliable. Plus there's basically no support network for bits vs the bog standard Tikka or R700 either.

As far as Winchester bolt guns go, if I wanted to buy one new, I'd have to travel 200+ miles to one of only a handful of dealers. If I wanted a Tikka, I could nip to my local shop 10 miles away.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I don't think there's many of them around at a reasonable price point though.

I mean, you can buy a proper Mauser 98, but that's a very different market to say a Tikka or a Rem 700. Even the Win 70 is slightly more than the Euro guns or the R700 in the UK, plus it just doesn't seem to have much of a sales network. There's always CZ, but they're still more than most PRF options and rightly or wrongly they have a reputation for needing fettling to be reliable. Plus there's basically no support network for bits vs the bog standard Tikka or R700 either.

As far as Winchester bolt guns go, if I wanted to buy one new, I'd have to travel 200+ miles to one of only a handful of dealers. If I wanted a Tikka, I could nip to my local shop 10 miles away.

So, if the Tikka would do everything you want with a non DG rifle, why would you go through the hassle for the CRF Winchester? I’m just playing the “devils advocate “ here, because I’ve been contemplating replacing my mid ‘70s Winchester .270 with a Browning X Bolt .270 vs. a CRF actioned .270? I don’t see the advantage of the CRF in this caliber?

 

[HuntingGold]

There clearly is a generational thing going on, not only with actions but with stock types. It also goes for clothing, foot wear, optics, etc.

When I was at a gun stock maker delivering a new project to him, he told me I was the youngest client he's had in decades. Im 52. He went on to say he just cant seem to interest the millennial group in a wood stock of any type. Synthetic is what the trend is there.

 

[Alistair]

To my knowledge, most of those represented in the chart are push feed.

It's just a snapshot of what is going on in that circuit... Not a complete answer and certainly not the definitive answer to the question in this thread.

I'd be very surprised if any competitive shooter at any 'precision' discipline is using a CRF rifle, especially for long range shooting.

It's not a fair comparison though because a CRF is a major PITA for target shooting because you can't easily single feed without cycling through the mag. This is a problem because it's fiddly to do, because you risk damage to your round (which may not have much neck tension or any crimp, for a start), and also because a lot of LR target rounds using ELD bullets seated to the lands simply don't fit into many magazines. No body manufactures a true 'precision' CRF action for this reason and so even if you did want to inconvenience yourself, you can't find one that'd be competitive.

As for the R700, it's popular because it's cheap and prevalent enough to have lots of aftermarket parts. Simple as that. Based on what I see here in the UK for LR shooting (Precision, F class, Benchrest etc), it's pretty much the only entry level option before you go full custom. I suspect most of the R700s used stateside are similar - R700 actions, blueprinted and with an aftermarket barrel, trigger and stock fitted. Looks like you guys do have a couple other options in that space however.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I do not know how pre-64 M70s were made, but I would guess that of the ones that were hunted better than 95% were hunted in the U.S. and never saw Africa. That is a helluva lot of rifles, not to mention all of the converted military Mausers.

I’ll bet a BUNCH bought after ‘63 were never hunted! They’ve been in somebody’s gun safe as an “investment “. I’ve seen two personally that were never hunted. Kind of sad actually, as a quality built rifle like that should be hunted no matter what! I guess that’s why I’m not a collector?

 

[HuntingGold]

Some of these investments are showing up on web based sales platforms such as gunbroker and guns international.

 

[CoElkHunter]

There clearly is a generational thing going on, not only with actions but with stock types. It also goes for clothing, foot wear, optics, etc.

When I was at a gun stock maker delivering a new project to him, he told me I was the youngest client he's had in decades. Im 52. He went on to say he just cant seem to interest the millennial group in a wood stock of any type. Synthetic is what the trend is there.

No maintenance with synthetic or stainless steel, more time for partying and sitting in line at the fast food restaurant? I guess I need to catch up! Ha! Ha!

 

[CoElkHunter]

Some of these investments are showing up on web based sales platforms such as gunbroker and guns international.

I’ve seen them advertised. I think many of them are still a good value as they’re one of the finest rifles ever made. But, being the cheap bastard that I am, I continue looking and sometimes buying CZ 550s and Whitworths. They’re cheaper, rougher, heavy, unrefined beasts, kind of like me! Ha! Ha!

 

[CoElkHunter]

I'd be very surprised if any competitive shooter at any 'precision' discipline is using a CRF rifle, especially for long range shooting.

It's not a fair comparison though because a CRF is a major PITA for target shooting because you can't easily single feed without cycling through the mag. This is a problem because it's fiddly to do, because you risk damage to your round (which may not have much neck tension or any crimp, for a start), and also because a lot of LR target rounds using ELD bullets seated to the lands simply don't fit into many magazines. No body manufactures a true 'precision' CRF action for this reason and so even if you did want to inconvenience yourself, you can't find one that'd be competitive.

As for the R700, it's popular because it's cheap and prevalent enough to have lots of aftermarket parts. Simple as that. Based on what I see here in the UK for LR shooting (Precision, F class, Benchrest etc), it's pretty much the only entry level option before you go full custom. I suspect most of the R700s used stateside are similar - R700 actions, blueprinted and with an aftermarket barrel, trigger and stock fitted. Looks like you guys do have a couple other options in that space however.

I think your right about the Remington 700. It’s legendary accuracy, price point and availability for parts/upgrades, morphed into one of America’s favorite hunting rifles, despite it’s original trigger issues. At the time of it’s hiatus in the ‘60s through the ‘80s, not much else available for the value?