Crf Rifles Encountered While Hunting?

[mark-hunter]

@CoElkHunter
Yes, it is matter of local imports, and today also a matter of average standard.
In past, in my coutry, most imports were from eastern european countries (like CZ) plus local prolific production from zastava, and both of these very affordable.

Then, once the rifle comes to average family it stays there for next generation - it is not consumer market. So, this explains present numbers on the ground, locally

This is nothing when compared to consumer market, and hunting culture in USA, and today this is flooded with various push feed platforms, or ar15 - recently. So, CRF of older continetal and eastern european production can not compete in such environment. Only few (wise) men are actually looking for those.

 

[Professor Mawla]

Too many to count . During the 1970s ( when I first visited the United States ) , I recall seeing practically no control round feed action rifles in the United States . There were a handful of pre 1964 Winchester Model 70 rifles and some custom made rifles , which were built on either military surplus Mauser Model 98 or Springfield Model 1903 or Enfield Model 1917 actions . One close American friend of mine own(ed) a BRNO ZKK - 600 in .30-06 Springfield . He told me that BRNO arms could not be imported into the United States ( although they could be imported into Canada ) , due Czechoslovakia being a communist country at the time . There were also a few old mail order rifles ( invariably chambered in either .270 Winchester or .30-06 Springfield ) , which were built on the old pattern FN ( Fabrique Nationale ) Mauser Model 98 actions .

Today ; whenever I go to live in the United States ( once every alternate year ) , I see my fellow American hunters use plenty of control round feed action rifles . The most popular variety is ( without a doubt ) the new Winchester Model 70 rifles . You also have a dusting of Dakota Model 76 rifles . And of course , there is the ( recently discontinued ) CZ Model 550 ( which has invariably been “ touched up “ by a gunsmith in order to enhance reliability ) . Then of course , you have custom pieces which are usually built on Granite Mountain Arms Mauser Model 98 actions .

The most popular amongst these , is ( hands down ) the Winchester Model 70 . And with good reason . Reliable as tanks , budget friendly and an American company .

 

[CoElkHunter]

@CoElkHunter
Yes, it is matter of local imports, and today also a matter of average standard.
In past, in my coutry, most imports were from eastern european countries (like CZ) plus local prolific production from zastava, and both of these very affordable.

Then, once the rifle comes to average family it stays there for next generation - it is not consumer market. So, this explains present numbers on the ground, locally

This is nothing when compared to consumer market, and hunting culture in USA, and today this is flooded with various push feed platforms, or ar15 - recently. So, CRF of older continetal and eastern european production can not compete in such environment. Only few (wise) men are actually looking for those.

Well, maybe I’m a little wise or maybe more stupid, but I have an AR on consignment at a local gun shop, so I can buy another CZ 550. Wise or stupid? Time will tell. Ha! Ha!

 

[Scott CWO]

In our elk, deer and pronghorn camps, we see a lot of Winchester M70s but the push feeds definitely outnumber them. I doubt the majority of US hunters even know the difference. A lot of them buy junk and go hunting.

 

[WAB]

@WAB correct me if I am wrong. You spent a lot of your hunting life in Alaska where larger caliber rifles were/are common due to many large game animals. This in itself would make the use of crf rifles more common. Yes or no?

Yes, good point. However I also spent 9 years in Wyoming. Pre ‘64 Model ‘70’s were definitely represented although not in the numbers of Remington 700’s. I can recall two in .264 Win Mag that were used to the point of almost being in the ‘white’. What I find interesting is the almost complete lack of mausers I’ve come across. To read the old writers, O’Connor, Carmichael, etc., you’d think every other rifle you’d come across would be a Mauser or a Model 70.

 

[Deleted member 53080]

A friend of mine is wanting to build a rifle and we were discussing what action to use. I started talking about PF and CRF. His response was ‘what’s CRF?’. He counted the bolt guns in his safe and out of around 12 (I think) rifles two were CRF.

All this is to say that in my area and in my experience, the vast majority of hunters and gun owners in general don’t even know what CRF means, or the difference in PF versus CRF. Also if you let them shoot your CRF rifle with a claw extractor they will try and single feed it every time! Very irritating

The wide spread use of the Rem M700 is amazing. I would venture a guess that 9/10 rifles here are PF and probably 6/10 of them are 700s. Savage is well represented also.

PFs are more affordable than CRFs for the most part and given the “everyman” nature of hunting here it makes sense that use of cheaper PFs is so prolific.

 

[WAB]

The 700 design is not just popular because it’s cheap. It has an incredibly fast lock time, stiff action and beds very well. This makes it an excellent precision rifle platform. This is why so many custom precision rifles are 700 variants. If you want a rig that will put 5 shots in one hole at 200 every time or ring steel at 2400 you’re likely going with one.

 

[BeeMaa]

Hunting in the US...7 out of 10 are PF.
Most of them being the R700 or clone action.
For CRF, mostly see the Win M70's & Ruger.

Hunting in Africa...9 out of 10 are CRF.
Equal mix of CZ/BRNO and Win M70 mostly.
If it wasn't CRF, it was a double.
Only PF's I saw belonged to other clients, not natives.

I believe I was in my teens when I learned about CRF/PF.
I've owned way more PF's than CRF rifles.

 

[fourfive8]

For the period from about 1970 to early 2000s, I looked at thousands in the field during big game season or at the range, prior to hunting season - mostly western US in NM, CO and WYO. Hard to put a percentage on it by memory. But best guess would be most brands and designs represented by at least a few examples. The custom or modified, sporterized types rifles were usually Mauser or Springfield based. Quite a few lever rifles noted with the Winchester 94 and Marlin 95 (M336) dominating along with a few Savage 99s. The most common bolt rifles were plain, unmodified factory Winchester M70s, Remington M700s, along with some Savage barrel nut varieties, a few Weatherbys, a few Mossbergs and a few various British and Continental factory bolts. IIRC by rough estimate, Remington 700s were more common than Winchester 70s by a factor of maybe 2or3 to 1. A very wide range of calibers were represented. The most common calibers were probably 30-06, 30-30, 308, 7mm Rem Mag, 270 Win and 338 Win Mag.

As to an over-all percentage CRF vs PF... hard to say but I imagine heavily biased toward push feed especially considering the number of Remington 700s and all the lever actions in the sample.

I'm certain more recently, in the last 20 years or so, these stats have shifted some and a few more rattle battles are showing up.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

With several of my hunts in Africa, I used rental guns from the PH. They were a Win Mod 70 in 30-06 (CRF), Rem 700 in 375H&H (PF), Ruger M77 (tang safety PF), sporterized Mausers in 300 WM (CRF) and Sako 85 in 7mm mag and 375 H&H (PF.....sort of). I actually liked the Sako the best.

When I asked the PH about PF, he replied "They just work."

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Don’t really know, I’ve never owned one, except my M77 in .220 Swift? But, from what some of the M77 experts have said here, is the Ruger RSMs are CRF and the others are not? Don’t know for sure?

The tang safety Rugers are push feed with a claw extractor. I think the rest are CRF.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Back in the '60s, the Depression era WW2 vets used a lot of sporterized and straight military rifles, Mausers, Springfields, and Enfields. As time went on and Remington made some decent rifles, their offspring (baby boomers) opted for push feed rifles.

This is what's most prevalent at the ranges now:

Ruger Precision® Rifle

ruger.com

 

[jduckhunter]

At this point in this thread I am pretty well embarrassed, in the last 35 years or so I have helped hundreds of hunters get their mule deer and antelope in Wyoming. I can't say that I guided them cause I am not a guide, I only hunt with people and try to steer them in the right direction. Any way out of all of those hunters I couldn't tell you honestly what brand of gun they were using, let alone what type of actions they were. My main concern was their safe handling of the weapon and their ability to hit what they were aiming at. Personally I own several CRF rifles and have learned the hard way not to let just any one borrow them, they inevitably try to single feed a round at some point and have jammed some bullets in the chamber pretty tightly requiring a cleaning rod to extract them.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Do not forget, once upon a time Remington produced a very good and then very fine rifle with controlled feed the Model 30 (the good one), then the Model 720 ( a very fine rifle) on par with a Model 70 Winchester in every way!

 

[Professor Mawla]

Do not forget, once upon a time Remington produced a very good and then very fine rifle with controlled feed the Model 30 (the good one), then the Model 720 ( a very fine rifle) on par with a Model 70 Winchester in every way!

@Tokoloshe Safaris
Ah yes , the Remington Model 30 Express . Built on Enfield Model 1917 actions .
The very first push feed Remington rifles , were actually the Remington Model 725s . They featured Enfield Model 1917 actions , with push feed bolts .

 

[IvW]

I only use crf the two pushfeeds I have left are up for sale.....

I lie my 22 is pushfeed....

 

[mdwest]

All of my big game rifles are CRF or Semi Autos (AR variants for hog hunting)... but I have owned plenty of PF in the past..

I recently sold a Ruger American to a friend that wanted it more than I did... that was my last PF in the safe...

For NA hunting I see nothing wrong with a PF of decent quality.. I just happened to go on a custom build kick a while back and built myself a bunch of rifles ranging from 270 to 416 Taylor, all on Mauser actions.. and bought a couple of rifles built on Enfield P14 actions (300 HH and 585 HE).. and the only remaining "factory guns" left in the safe are a Win 70, Ruger 77 FTW, and a Kimber (all CRF)..

Im certainly the exception among most of the guys I hunt with here in the US.. the vast majority of the guys I hunt with have either a Rem 700 or a Savage 110 variant if they hunt with a bolt gun... A couple of them use TC Pro Hunters (single shot) or lever guns though..

I actually only hunt with 1 other guy with any regularity here in the US that uses a CRF (he has a Win 70 CRF in 7 RM he likes)

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

@Tokoloshe Safaris
Ah yes , the Remington Model 30 Express . Built on Enfield Model 1917 actions .
The very first push feed Remington rifles , were actually the Remington Model 725s . They featured Enfield Model 1917 actions , with push feed bolts .

I may be incorrect. Did the Model 720 precede the 725? I believe the 720 was a little "thrown together", then they refined the stock and offered many different options. I believe the 725 had a free floating barrel or made contact just at the tip. Then there was the Model 30 very few "Civilian" models were ever sold to the public. I believe the rest of 2,000+ were divided into two equal lots and were split between the Navy and Marines and all or part became "trophy award rifles". I think all were in 30-06. I have never seen one. I believe they can be identified by crossed cannons stamped on the receiver or barrel?

 

[meigsbucks]

I’ve seen Winchester M70’s, various Mauser actioned rifles, Kimber, and Ruger 77/Hawkeye’s. My PH in Zim carried a .416 Rem mag Winchester M70. In Namibia the loaner rifle my brother used was a Kimber .30/06.

 

[gbflyer]

Great discussion. Didn’t read all the replies. My observations are from 25 years in CO and nearly another 25 in Alaska (damn I’m getting old).

A lot of what we see out West today is driven by the notion that game animals are only taken at extreme ranges and one needs a precision rifle with Hubble telescope mounted atop. Stalking is for bow hunting. Most of these actions are of the push feed variety as they are easier to manufacture to tight tolerances for the major and boutique manufacturers. Little thought is put into reliability in extreme environmental conditions encountered in many other places. 9 out of 10 of those things won’t work in the dust or wet freezing weather. Most of these rifles see 10 rounds a year and the average shot is still 150 yards or less. Dads and Grandads Winchester 94 or 70 got traded off in order to finance their “builds”.

In my small corner of Alaska I have seen a lot of everything. Seems like everyone owns a Mini-14. The Winchester Model 70 is the state firearm. I also see a lot of Ruger M77 or Hawkeye. There are either stainless, or rusty. Not many in between. One Sitka based bear guide packed a rusty post-64 push-feed model 70 in .458.