Double Rifle caliber question for those with first hand knowledge

[Backyardsniper]

Is the 500 scoped??

I have a set of QD mounts. I plan to run it primarily with iron sights but I will have the scope on hand and can pop it on in the event that it becomes necesarry

 

[ActionBob]

The double won't be for this trip. This is R&D for a rifle to be purchased for future hunts. This trip will be a 500 Jeff bolt gun with a 416 rigby as well. Both the same rifle just in different calibers. The double is for future plans, provided I ever actually save up enough money. LOL

That's great to hear. My 505 Gibbs was awesome on buffalo, rhino, and giraffe shooting 525 grain TSX at somewhere between 2300 and 2350 fps. Those big TSX opened up great at those speeds. Of course rhino was with solids per rules, although I suspect the TSX would have performed magnificently.

If your PH has multiple trackers, as is often the case on that type of hunt, get one to carry your second rifle with a scope just in case you want it. Never know what you run into out in the bush.

On the first morning of my elephant hunt (and buffalo), my PH said "It's very unlikely, but what do you want to do if we see a good male leopard on this hunt?". I asked if he had quota, he said yes. So I replied that then I would like to shoot it, pay the trophy fee and add considerably to his tip! He just smiled and said "ok".

We did see a lot of sign but alas no leopard sighted.

Have a really great hunt! Best of luck Looking! Looking forward to reading the report and visiting again at SCI or DSC.

 

[Backyardsniper]

That's great to hear. My 505 Gibbs was awesome on buffalo, rhino, and giraffe shooting 525 grain TSX at somewhere between 2300 and 2350 fps. Those big TSX opened up great at those speeds. Of course rhino was with solids per rules, although I suspect the TSX would have performed magnificently.

If your PH has multiple trackers, as is often the case on that type of hunt, get one to carry your second rifle with a scope just in case you want it. Never know what you run into out in the bush.

On the first morning of my elephant hunt (and buffalo), my PH said "It's very unlikely, but what do you want to do if we see a good male leopard on this hunt?". I asked if he had quota, he said yes. So I replied that then I would like to shoot it, pay the trophy fee and add considerably to his tip! He just smiled and said "ok".

We did see a lot of sign but alas no leopard sighted.

Have a really great hunt! Best of luck Looking! Looking forward to reading the report and visiting again at SCI or DSC.

You gonna be at the SCI next year? We decided on that one instead of the DSC only because it is so close to home since it is going to be in Nashville. We really enjoyed the DSC but with the safari coming up we could only really justify/afford to go to one or the other so we figured we would go with SCI since we had not been to it yet and it is closer to home. I already purchased the tickets and reserved a room. I missed the ActionBob after party in Dallas after the AH dinner. I plan to attend if it happens in Nashville we really had a good time at the AH dinner and enjoyed meeting every body. I'm a member on a few forums and honestly none of them have the same kind of camaraderie and atmosphere like this one. It is a big plus to have a chance to meet up at these conventions and actually hang out in person and have a beer with the same guys that you chat with on the forum.

 

[Backyardsniper]

@Backyardsniper I would like to share a couple other scenarios with you regarding shooting dangerous game and double rifles. I don't shoot my double rifles with anywhere near the precision accuracy that I can my bolt guns. I honestly doubt I ever will.

We all dream of being presented with and making the perfect one shot kill with a brain shot on elephant or a perfect high heart/lung shot on a buffalo. However that is not always an option presented. And as much as we want to tell ourselves that we wait for that perfect shot presentation, it does not always come. We pay a lot of money, travel a long ways, burn up vacation time... And you never know just how the hunting will go and your PH also is under pressure to deliver and may ask if you can make a shot at a difficult angle or thread a bullet through a small opening. Or take a shot in severely waning light.

For those shots you just cannot beat an accurate bolt gun with a good scope. Now there are guys who can make those shots with a double but they are few and far between. They also may have a scoped double with them. (As in two rifles) And they have years of practice and practical hunting with their doubles.

I had my 470 double with to Tanzania and carried it most of the hunt and for sure when pursuing buffalo. Also has a tracker carrying my wife's 404 Jeffrey which is pushing 12 pounds but shoots like a dream with very little recoil and well under 1" patterns. The only shot I had on a buffalo was to thread through a group and shoot a bull behind the ear. So swapped guns and shot him with that scoped 404. It can happen with elephant also.

I want very much to kill the animals on my list, but I have been on unsuccessful hunts before and I will say that it's not the end of the world for me if I have a good hunt and I don't end up killing whatever the intended target is. I am a hunter of unique experiences. Don't get me wrong, this ain't no photo safari, but if I undertook a hunt with the plans of hunting with a double or iron sights only, or a pistol, or fill in whatever handicapping limitation you wish and I didn't kill the intended animal then that's all right. To travel to another country and eat the local food, meet the people, learn a little of the language and be able to enjoy the whole experience then I will still definitely count that as a successful trip.

 

[ActionBob]

You gonna be at the SCI next year? We decided on that one instead of the DSC only because it is so close to home since it is going to be in Nashville. We really enjoyed the DSC but with the safari coming up we could only really justify/afford to go to one or the other so we figured we would go with SCI since we had not been to it yet and it is closer to home. I already purchased the tickets and reserved a room. I missed the ActionBob after party in Dallas after the AH dinner. I plan to attend if it happens in Nashville we really had a good time at the AH dinner and enjoyed meeting every body. I'm a member on a few forums and honestly none of them have the same kind of camaraderie and atmosphere like this one. It is a big plus to have a chance to meet up at these conventions and actually hang out in person and have a beer with the same guys that you chat with on the forum.

Yes! God willing we plan to be there. Likely drive down and do a week before or after doing touristy things.

Ummmm, the only one who was at the ActionBob After Party was @Just Gina and it was really great

 

[Backyardsniper]

Yes! God willing we plan to be there. Likely drive down and do a week before or after doing touristy things.

Ummmm, the only one who was at the ActionBob After Party was @Just Gina and it was really great

 

[Rare Breed]

As I stated, a chart doesn't kill animals. It is however very interesting and I think quite telling. If you have not looked it over, it's worth a few minutes. 416's seem to be great balance bring a lot to the table

As to Joe, I've had several conversations with him in person as well as PM's and feel honored to call him a friend. Although I'm aware of his mitary background, I don't have that type of background but can relate much more to his civilian career experience leading a team. From what I know of the man, you could not be farther off in your generalization. I gather his great success in the private sector was garnered through empowerment of his team. There is a very caring, intellegent, experienced, practical, thoughtful, and good natured head riding on Joe's shoulders and this Forum is much better with his involvement.

Things tend to get out of hand with black and white text or type vs. personal communication where body language and tone often say as much or more than words. You just don't get that in text.

+1 on @redleg. I am honored to call him a friend and his advice has helped me so very much. In particular his advice on my John Rigby in 275 Rigby has been guided by his advice which I am so very grateful! You seem to be a good person backyardsniper and I am enjoying your posts. Ease up on Joe though he always has nothing but good intentions on his posts

 

[spike.t]

That is my biggest hold back on buying a double.

Why....you either want to hunt with a double rifle or not.....not exactly a difficult question.....you get on and accept the limitations or not....this subject comes around so many times its ....well to be blunt boring....

 

[Inline6]

Why....you either want to hunt with a double rifle or not.....not exactly a difficult question.....you get on and accept the limitations or not....this subject comes around so many times its ....well to be blunt boring....

Call it a high expectation I hold my rifles to. Many people are happy with MOA rifles. I'm not happy with that, my back ground comes from where I have pulled sub 1/2 MOA barrels off and replaced them. Right or wrong that is my mindset. So given that a double would probably be the most expensive rifle I would own and not my most accurate, I full admit I have a mental block. Yes I know we need to be close enough to hit them with the barrel and accuracy should make no difference. That is where I'm stuck...it is in my head.

 

[Backyardsniper]

Call it a high expectation I hold my rifles to. Many people are happy with MOA rifles. I'm not happy with that, my back ground comes from where I have pulled sub 1/2 MOA barrels off and replaced them. Right or wrong that is my mindset. So given that a double would probably be the most expensive rifle I would own and not my most accurate, I full admit I have a mental block. Yes I know we need to be close enough to hit them with the barrel and accuracy should make no difference. That is where I'm stuck...it is in my head.

That is the catch for me as well. I have always equated price=accuracy. With all my precision rifles I paid more to have a rifle that was more accurate. In the long range game the difference, theoretically, between a 1MOA rifle and a .5 MOA rifle is the difference in a 10" group at 1K yards and a 5" group at 1K. The more accurate the rifle the more room for error on a wind call or ranging error. It is a hard change to make, to wrap your mind around spending the most money you have ever spent on a rifle and for it to also be the least accurate rifle you own it is a paradox for some of us.

 

[ET1775]

That is the catch for me as well. I have always equated price=accuracy. With all my precision rifles I paid more to have a rifle that was more accurate. In the long range game the difference, theoretically, between a 1MOA rifle and a .5 MOA rifle is the difference in a 10" group at 1K yards and a 5" group at 1K. The more accurate the rifle the more room for error on a wind call or ranging error. It is a hard change to make, to wrap your mind around spending the most money you have ever spent on a rifle and for it to also be the least accurate rifle you own it is a paradox for some of us.

My mental work around is that I just remind myself that I have ultra precise rifles for ultra precise work. I want a double to exemplify the hunt, and I consider it as a rifle version of my longbow. It will kill with ease, but I have to be absolutely on my game for the hunt and stalk. It will not be yet another investment in superb accuracy, but an investment in my own betterment that forces me to be honest in my hunting pursuits, diligent in the work I put in, and giving the utmost respect and admiration to the game I seek to best on it's own playing field. I have weapons with which I can showcase how well I can shoot; a single shot or double speaks unflinchingly to how well I hunt (or aspire to.)

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Don't discount the 450/400. I hear it called the '375 plus' and also the perfect buffalo calibre. The double is light too with manageable recoil.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

I have always equated price=accuracy. With all my precision rifles I paid more to have a rifle that was more accurate. In the long range game the difference, theoretically, between a 1MOA rifle and a .5 MOA rifle is the difference in a 10" group at 1K yards and a 5" group at 1K. The more accurate the rifle the more room for error on a wind call or ranging error. It is a hard change to make, to wrap your mind around spending the most money you have ever spent on a rifle and for it to also be the least accurate rifle you own it is a paradox for some of us.

Accuracy is relevant to the rifle’s intended use. I also find accurate rifles interesting, per Colonel Askins, but sometimes “minute of buffalo” is accurate enough!

A double rifle in dangerous game chamberings is to me, close range life insurance. As reassuring as the push of 80+ foot pounds of energy against one’s shoulder is, it is NOT conducive to accuracy. Remember a shooter must present consistent opposition to the recoil to achieve accurate shots on target. That isn’t always possible for the quick, follow-up shot. If a quick follow-up shot is probably not necessary, then why carry a double rifle?

If a hunter shooting a .500 caliber double off sticks can group two shots from each barrel in the size of one’s fist (about 4”) at 50 yards, it is accurate enough for its designed purpose. Shots at an elephant would likely be closer that that! I am sure there are some people that can consistently shoot a .500 double with fist size accuracy at 100 yards. Honestly, I don’t know if that would be me.

Yesterday I dusted off my Heym 88B in .458 Win. This is far from a .500 Nitro but with a little practice, I shoot it well enough. With a Trijicon 1 MOA SRO sight affixed to the rib thanks to JJ Perodeau’s gunsmithing, it is a handy 11-pound rifle. Off the sticks at 100 yards I managed a couple or 4” 2x2 groups with 470 gr Cutting Edge Bullet Raptors averaging 2160 fps per a LabRadar. Younger eyes might have done better but my 20/10 vision is long gone. Recoil with that .458 definitely gets my attention with each and every practice shot, but it is not painful. Anyway, I consider this double with the SRO dot sight and my eyes to max out on range at about 100 yards for plains game. If it were set up and regulated for a scope, I could probably shrink the groups, but it shoots accurate enough for a .458 Win double. This is a good 50 yard double that can in a pinch, hit at 100 yards for non-dangerous game.

Don't discount the 450/400. I hear it called the '375 plus' and also the perfect buffalo calibre. The double is light too with manageable recoil.

The .400 or .416 caliber doubles offer manageable recoil and with good shot placement, effective stopping power. If one desires an “accurate” double for longer than 50 yards, look towards these calibers. Liking accurate rifles, I did just that... Someday my scoped Merkel .416 Rigby will depart Holt’s in England and arrive in the USA. I hope that without the scope, it will be an accurate 50 yard dangerous game rifle, and with the scope, I hope it will with at least on barrel, be fist sized accurate to 200 yards. If it and me can do this, I will consider a very accurate double rifle! If I need more accuracy, I will shoot a bolt action.

 

[93marlin]

Both of my doubles will do 2" +/- at 50yds with the proper loads.
If I NEED more accuracy, I can use my my scoped Ruger RCM in 375R.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

A quality 300gr bullet from a .375 has killed decisively everything (including four buffalo) that it has been aimed at. Three of the four were shot twice as insurance, but all were dead with the first round. Carries like a 30 06. accurate to 300 yards on PG, and lethal on DG. Can not imagine why a client going on their first DG hunt would want to burden themselves or their PH with a .500.

Not sure about burden, I think how much someone shoots/practices to ensure they are proficient with the rifle is probably even more important than calibre/cartridge/rifle selection, given the selection of calibre/cartridge/rifle is deemed suitable for the game being hunted.