Double Rifle: Ejectors vs Extractor

[petrusg]

Hi I have ejectors on my double rifle and they are truly amazing! have never had any issues and you should see the look on your mates faces with extractors when your shells go flying through the air.

 

[Foxi]

Auto safety is not going to make for a safer guest gun that comes from unsafe and incompetence from the user. Guns don't kill, incompetent people handling the guns kill other people.
Auto safety will get somebody killed sooner or later but is more importantly a no no for a PH.

Sorry ,I disagree.
You can't rule out everything,sure
But a gun, safe-guarded too often hasn't shot anyone.

"Practice makes perfect!"
thats exactly the point.
What do you think, how often the people are practizing their .450 double and up in reality ,when they come from America or Europe ?
I've not the best meaning of my marksmen colleagues.
Since years I see always (mostly) the same faces at the shootingrange.
Regards.

 

[norfolk shooter]

The Merkel I just obtained is an extractor and manual safety. I am fine with both.
A PH demonstrated to me how one quickly reloads an extractor double. While holding the two new rounds between the fingers of the non trigger hand fire both barrels. Break and rotate the rifle up and to the side and the spent shells fall out. Quickly rotate the rifle to a level brak position and reload and close. I watched him do this twice and it was faster than I could cycle the bolt on my Ruger.

With my extractor double the shells dont just drop out! Mind you the chambers are still a wee bit tight as I have only put about 15 shots through each barrel

 

[IvW]

With my extractor double the shells dont just drop out! Mind you the chambers are still a wee bit tight as I have only put about 15 shots through each barrel

Wow, that is strange. What caliber is it chambered for? I can only imagine that this will be with a rimless or belted cartridge.

 

[cbvanb]

The Merkel I just obtained is an extractor and manual safety. I am fine with both.
A PH demonstrated to me how one quickly reloads an extractor double. While holding the two new rounds between the fingers of the non trigger hand fire both barrels. Break and rotate the rifle up and to the side and the spent shells fall out. Quickly rotate the rifle to a level brak position and reload and close. I watched him do this twice and it was faster than I could cycle the bolt on my Ruger.

That same process will be faster with ejectors. I think the key is practice, no matter which gun you use. From my experience most shooters focus on shooting much more than reloading.

 

[norfolk shooter]

Wow, that is strange. What caliber is it chambered for? I can only imagine that this will be with a rimless or belted cartridge.

416 rigby but I can’t see how it would make a difference before you start. As rimed or rimless the extractor mechanisms is the same apart from the big hefty pawls

 

[stug]

The rounds designed for break open rifle have a lot more taper on the case, so once the extractor has pulled the case back a small amount the case sides are no longer in contact with the chamber walls. My 7x65R fired cases fall out when I tilt my barrel up.
For a rimless case the extractor will probably hook into the extractor groove and won't release them easily

 

[norfolk shooter]

The rounds designed for break open rifle have a lot more taper on the case, so once the extractor has pulled the case back a small amount the case sides are no longer in contact with the chamber walls. My 7x65R fired cases fall out when I tilt my barrel up.
For a rimless case the extractor will probably hook into the extractor groove and won't release them easily

Sounds like I might have to engineer a solution

 

[stug]

Sounds like I might have to engineer a solution

I wouldn't worry about it. You will be backed up by a PH. Just practice reloading with the rifle as it is.

 

[norfolk shooter]

I wouldn't worry about it. You will be backed up by a PH. Just practice reloading with the rifle as it is.

The 500ne has straight walls from what I remember how does it work with that?? I’m going to keep telling myself that I just need to shoot in my rifle

 

[IvW]

416 rigby but I can’t see how it would make a difference before you start. As rimed or rimless the extractor mechanisms is the same apart from the big hefty pawls

It is not so much the mechanism(they function the same but the extractor claw is different) but rather the case design that causes this. When looking at the Rigby case the extractor claw needs to fit into the recessed extractor groove. Once you have opened the double chambered for such a cartridge the extractor claw prevents the empty case from falling out when you tilt the rifle because it is still in the recess and contacts the case ahead of the extractor groove, preventing it from falling free of the chambers.

With a rimmed cartridge designed for doubles the extractor fits under(just ahead) of the rim and when you tilt the double after opening the extractor in no way impedes the case and it falls free of the chamber easily.

Rimmed cartridges are best suited for double rifles due to this and it is the best design for reliable
extraction/ejection.

In 416 caliber the 500/416 NE is the best choice for a double rifle and the 450/400 3" probably even better as it operates at much lower chamber pressures.

The 500ne has straight walls from what I remember how does it work with that?? I’m going to keep telling myself that I just need to shoot in my rifle

Chamber pressure.

416 Rigby operates at 325 MPa/47137 psi
500 NE 3" operates at 280 MPa/40600 psi

This is 16% lower chamber pressure although the 500 NE is firing a bullet that is 39% heavier than the bullet fired from the 416 Rigby.

Although the 500 NE is referred to as a "straight walled" case(mainly this term is used for cases that do not have a distinct bottleneck) the case actually does taper quite a lot. From the base to the neck it actually tapers 1.1 mm, which at the operating pressure and making use of a rim, ensure absolute reliable extraction.

 

[Shootist43]

IvW, once again you are spot on. I saw a very attractive add to purchase a double rifle cheap. Since I know nothing about them I contacted Rookhawk. Thankfully I did, he talked me out of the purchase in less than a minute citing the exact reasons you did. That conversation was private, thankfully this one is public. Perhaps this will help others decide which calibers are best used in double rifles and why.

 

[norfolk shooter]

It is not so much the mechanism(they function the same but the extractor claw is different) but rather the case design that causes this. When looking at the Rigby case the extractor claw needs to fit into the recessed extractor groove. Once you have opened the double chambered for such a cartridge the extractor claw prevents the empty case from falling out when you tilt the rifle because it is still in the recess and contacts the case ahead of the extractor groove, preventing it from falling free of the chambers.

With a rimmed cartridge designed for doubles the extractor fits under(just ahead) of the rim and when you tilt the double after opening the extractor in no way impedes the case and it falls free of the chamber easily.

Rimmed cartridges are best suited for double rifles due to this and it is the best design for reliable
extraction/ejection.

In 416 caliber the 500/416 NE is the best choice for a double rifle and the 450/400 3" probably even better as it operates at much lower chamber pressures.



Chamber pressure.

416 Rigby operates at 325 MPa/47137 psi
500 NE 3" operates at 280 MPa/40600 psi

This is 16% lower chamber pressure although the 500 NE is firing a bullet that is 39% heavier than the bullet fired from the 416 Rigby.

Although the 500 NE is referred to as a "straight walled" case(mainly this term is used for cases that do not have a distinct bottleneck) the case actually does taper quite a lot. From the base to the neck it actually tapers 1.1 mm, which at the operating pressure and making use of a rim, ensure absolute reliable extraction.

Point made about the pawls thinking about it the do hold the case there