Double rifle in .405 Winchester

[crs]

Thanks Al,
The stock design and 10 pound weight of my Simson double make 300 grain recoil easy and the 400 grain recoil less than the 1895 300 grain recoil - Sweet! Both are pleasant to shoot from a bench rest.

BTW, a while back, a friend on this forum mentioned selling his Simson .405 double so I will tell him to read this thread again.

 

[Savannah AL]

Thanks.
On a separate note I just posted a new thread on Heym O/U Double Rifles under the double rifle forum.
I've discovered two that I'm very interested in and would buy one this week.
But I cannot find hardly any information on the models/products/spec's.
More is written about the company than what they make, which I found odd.

AL

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

.... and enough ammunition!!!

.405 Winchester at the reloading bench.

View attachment 212245


HWL

@HWL
Looks like you will be doing one of a few things with that amount of ammo.
A lot of practice
A lot of hunting
Or a,lot of missing
I hope it's the first 2.
When I was rebarreling my SMLE NO4 ACTION it sounds like I should have gone with the 405 instead of the 444 marlin. Oh well live and learn.
Bob

 

[Sarg]

Bob the 405Win is very cool round but at the time you did yours & where you live the .444 Marlin was a great idea & round, with today's bullets even better I would think ?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob the 405Win is very cool round but at the time you did yours & where you live the .444 Marlin was a great idea & round, with today's bullets even better I would think ?

@Sarg
It was a toss up mate brass was expensive for both, the modification to the mag and ejector the same. Projectile for both were easy to get but the decision came down to who had a,reamer and I could only find a Smith with a 444.
The No4 action c as n stand a lot more pressure than the m Arlington so it was fun working up loads for it .I could get the 280grain woodleigh going @ almost 2,400 fps. I had a 1 in 20 barrel fitted so it would have been fun to play with 350 or 400 grainers as I had no feeding issues with a box mag.
Oh well we live and learn. That rifle went down the road to fund my Whelen project. Should have kept it but I love the Whelen.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Very good instructions and illustrations- thank you.
I skimmed over the German language instructions and some of my college German came back to me. If needed, I could break out my German/English dictionary (still have it) and translate.
I also have hunting friend that is fluent in the language .
I will save the link to show to W. Ellis Brown October 5 when I meet him at the last day of his course on Building Double Rifles On Shotgun Actions that he is teaching at a gunsmith school the first week of October; he may be familiar with the product.
http://www.ellisbrowncustomshop.com/gunsmithing/
Ellis will be having a" show and tell" session before he lets the class shoot a few of his double rifles that he has made. I am to demo my Hynden-made .405 and .45-70 doubles also.
The following day, Ellis will join me at the Boars Nest for some shooting double rifles at game rather than paper targets. Should be fun! If we take some good pix, I will post them here.

BTW, I just read your footnote about relying on Mauser M98 and thought maybe I should add something like that about my Pre 64 Winchester M70 Featherweight.

@

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Very good instructions and illustrations- thank you.
I skimmed over the German language instructions and some of my college German came back to me. If needed, I could break out my German/English dictionary (still have it) and translate.
I also have hunting friend that is fluent in the language .
I will save the link to show to W. Ellis Brown October 5 when I meet him at the last day of his course on Building Double Rifles On Shotgun Actions that he is teaching at a gunsmith school the first week of October; he may be familiar with the product.
http://www.ellisbrowncustomshop.com/gunsmithing/
Ellis will be having a" show and tell" session before he lets the class shoot a few of his double rifles that he has made. I am to demo my Hynden-made .405 and .45-70 doubles also.
The following day, Ellis will join me at the Boars Nest for some shooting double rifles at game rather than paper targets. Should be fun! If we take some good pix, I will post them here.

BTW, I just read your footnote about relying on Mauser M98 and thought maybe I should add something like that about my Pre 64 Winchester M70 Featherweight.

@crs
A good friend of mine and fellow forum member ( I won't mention his name, he will hopefully write a story on it) is in the process if building what I consider will be the cutest little double ever to come down the turnpike.
He as a 410 shotgun with a spare set of barrels he is having sleeved and chambered for the little 25/20.
I think it will be the ideal small game and close range whitetail rifle.
I look forward to seeing it finished.
A few may laugh at his choice but only because they didn't think of it.
Bob

 

[Professor Mawla]

Good evening @crs , @AZDAVE and @HWL

I have a small question regarding your .405 Winchester calibre double rifles . Were they originally regulated for Winchester ammunition or ICI Kynoch ammunition ? I do know that Winchester ceased manufacturing .405 Winchester calibre factory ammunition in 1947 , while ICI Kynoch ceased manufacture of .405 Winchester calibre factory ammunition in 1958 .

 

[crs]

Mine was regulated for Hornady 300 grain ammo at 2000 fps by the previous owner. Hornady Factory 300 grain .405 ammo claims to be 2250 fps and since I shoot that in my Winchester 1895 .405, I had the double rifle re-regulated with Hornady factory 300 grain ammo.

 

[Professor Mawla]

Mine was regulated for Hornady 300 grain ammo at 2000 fps by the previous owner. Hornady Factory 300 grain .405 ammo claims to be 2250 fps and since I shoot that in my Winchester 1895 .405, I had the double rifle re-regulated with Hornady factory 300 grain ammo.

But @crs ,
Hornady factory loaded ammunition was not even manufactured when your .405 Winchester calibre double rifle originally manufactured . Only Winchester and ICI Kynoch used to manufacture .405 Winchester factory ammunition back in those days . Unless I am very mistaken , I believe that all of the .405 Winchester calibre double rifles were regulated for ICI Kynoch ammunition .

 

[crs]

Prof,
I know nothing of the ammo originally used when the Winchester 1895 .405 rifles were first made and sold. I know even less about what ammo may have been used with other .405 rifles made by other makers. Therefore, I am happy to accept your information on the ammo makers for the original .405 WCF rifles. All that interests me is the here and now.

Sorry if my earlier response was confusing.

 

[AZDAVE]

@Professor Mawla There was no information on my double when I purchased it. It was built between the wars and proofed in 1933. So my guess is that it was with ICI Kynoch. If it could talk and tell the story of how it came from Germany to the United States and all the adventures it went on before I became the caretaker of it would be interesting. It shoots the hornaday 405 loads very well and I have worked up load data that shoots to the sights with Hawk, hornaday, woodleigh, northfork, and CEB bullets. It is one of the best regulated doubles I have ever shot. It is currently getting restocked after the butt stock broke at the wrist last year, it should be finished in the next month or so. wish I had so definitive information but at best it is and educated guess on the original ammo it was regulated with as the record from the factory didn't survive WWII.

 

[Tucketed]

I saw this today on Guns International. It was under a listing from doublegun headquarters Whitworth Arms for a Chapuis double in 30-30. This caught my eye. “These are no longer available but later this year we will have an 8.5lb double in 405 3" NE that is a better all round light double, regulated for 350gr Swift A Frame at 2300 fps, 4000 ft-lb plus, legal for DG in every African country but not too heavy for North American use, at under $6K).”

 

[sestoppelman]

I saw this today on Guns International. It was under a listing from doublegun headquarters Whitworth Arms for a Chapuis double in 30-30. This caught my eye. “These are no longer available but later this year we will have an 8.5lb double in 405 3" NE that is a better all round light double, regulated for 350gr Swift A Frame at 2300 fps, 4000 ft-lb plus, legal for DG in every African country but not too heavy for North American use, at under $6K).”

.405 3" NE?? Thats a new one on me!

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I saw this today on Guns International. It was under a listing from doublegun headquarters Whitworth Arms for a Chapuis double in 30-30. This caught my eye. “These are no longer available but later this year we will have an 8.5lb double in 405 3" NE that is a better all round light double, regulated for 350gr Swift A Frame at 2300 fps, 4000 ft-lb plus, legal for DG in every African country but not too heavy for North American use, at under $6K).”

I’ve seen those ads for a while now but I haven’t seen an actual listing. Probably due to everything going on in the world I’m sure. I’ve been curious about it myself. I don’t think he ever named the maker though

 

[sestoppelman]

I saw this today on Guns International. It was under a listing from doublegun headquarters Whitworth Arms for a Chapuis double in 30-30. This caught my eye. “These are no longer available but later this year we will have an 8.5lb double in 405 3" NE that is a better all round light double, regulated for 350gr Swift A Frame at 2300 fps, 4000 ft-lb plus, legal for DG in every African country but not too heavy for North American use, at under $6K).”

You have a link for that listing?

 

[sestoppelman]

I found it. Wonder if the 405 is a typo., or maybe a custom round.

Chapuis RGEX Round Action "Deer Hunter" Double Rifle cal 30-30 or 7x57R

Chapuis RGEX Round Action "Deer Hunter" Double Rifle cal 30-30 or 7x57R for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

 

[Tucketed]

The listing, down in text you will find reference to the .405 double. https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...rifle-cal-30-30-or-7x57r.cfm?gun_id=101971921

 

[Tucketed]

I guessed a typo, hope someone checks it out and reports back

 

[Jgarner197]

I guessed a typo, hope someone checks it out and reports back

I agree I am assuming this was to be 450 NE, because of the 3” reference, instead of 405. Just to be sure I sent them a message via that listing. I have been considering the purchase of an 1895 Winchester in 405 but if this is real and a possibility I’d sell a few pieces out of the collection to fund this little experiment.