Double rifle shooting - good or not at 50 meters?

[Excessexpress]

I think in this context the concern MAY be;

That a 458 doesn’t suit a double rifle due to the belted rimless setup whereas a 450 Nitro has that rim to make extraction reliable.

Or I may be wrong, I’ve disagreed with IVW enough in here but if that is his concern, it is one I agree with. I know others have had no trouble but I have had issues with belted magnums sticking and having extractor pawls riding over the rim.

 

[Foxi]

I have never had an extraction problem with the case, despite the large number of shots.
I still shoot a tip up gun (Blaser K 95) in .308, never a problem and the shots from it, I can not count any more.
All this with rimless cartridges.

Here a pic from the weekend at the range.
My Ferlach double, o/u .458 480 gn Degol bullets.

Good or not ?
at 100 m .
Red dot sight(Burris fastfire) ,shot on the table.

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

I have never had an extraction problem with the case, despite the large number of shots.
I still shoot a tip up gun (Blaser K 95) in .308, never a problem and the shots from it, I can not count any more.
All this with rimless cartridges.

Here a pic from the weekend at the range.
My Ferlach double, o/u .458 480 gn Degol bullets.
View attachment 315153

Good or not ?
at 100 m .
Red dot sight(Burris fastfire) ,shot on the table.

Foxi
This is very acceptable for all practical purposes . Are you eventually planning to secure a buffalo with your .458 Winchester magnum calibre double barrel rifle ?
If so , then you will not have a problem going for a double lung shot with your rifle at this range ( or preferably closer ) as the lungs are the widest target presented on a bison or buffalo from the side. A good 510 grain soft nose cartridge that will open up nicely inside the lungs of the beast ( making sure that both lungs are pierced ) will make short work of that Buffalo.
In our time , Hornady used to be very popular for their 510 grain soft nose cartridges. An excellent modern equivalent will do nicely .

 

[Foxi]

With my .375 I've already shot a few.Now it's time for something else.
If the speed's right from the .458, I'll take it for buff.
Only our chronograph broke and at the moment there is no possibility to measure it in the house.

Kwashik,
at two things you have to be careful here in the forum :
the .458 for good to find
and
Hornady projectiles to praise

This is a bit difficult here.
Similar to Custers Last Stand
Regards
Foxi

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

With my .375 I've already shot a few.Now it's time for something else.
If the speed's right from the .458, I'll take it for buff.
Only our chronograph broke and at the moment there is no possibility to measure it in the house.

Kwashik,
at two things you have to be careful here in the forum :
the .458 for good to find
and
Hornady projectiles to praise

This is a bit difficult here.
Similar to Custers Last Stand
Regards
Foxi

Foxi
Do keep us updated. With an impact velocity of 2100 feet per second to 2150 feet per second , and correct aim to ensure that both the lungs are pierced and the bullet opens up inside the lungs , you will be fine .
Regards
Sgt. Kawshik Rahman ( Retd )

 

[edward]

View attachment 305319
View attachment 305320
Is that good or not?
50 m with a three leg stick,500 gn and 480 gn bullets, .458 Win. Mag.
I admire AH members very much, the excellent shots from double rifles in caliber .400 up supply.
It's not quite so given to me.
The following.
I once bought a double rifle,over and under,used .
Franz Sodia, Ferlach, Austria, in cal. .458 Win Mag.
One day I will hunt buffallo with it(open sight I thought) .
Now it is in such a way, that I do not bring all this any more with my eyes together.
Therefore a red dot sight came on it.
It is a Burris Fast Fire III
For security reasons, I deliberately didn't want a scope
(few minutes before I was in, a marksman came from the stand, with a heavy,bloody cut between his eyes,given by his scope and a .404 ).
Unfortunately the dimmed light spot is frayed and not sharply cut.
So I can't clearly see the desired target point and have to guess a bit.
Is the result satisfactory or not?
I ran out of ammo to start a new lap.
Does anyone have similar experiences with the Burris Fast Fire ?

By the way, at the lower barrel the CCI 250 primer does not ignite from time to time.
The normal one (no Magnum) does.
Best regards
Foxi
p.s. I was told last week by a shot,that his Tikka o/u double,9,3x74 R, goes hole in hole on 100 m (envious )

my 9x374r with a srs1 and 1 and 3/4 dot

is not that good but good enough id say.this is a 50 yrd target.

 

[Jfet]

Similar to Custers Last Stand

Can't pass up on commenting on U. S. History. For the first time I toured the Little Big Horn Battle Field this summer in short Custer was an idiot. To paraphrase Sgt. Plumley from the movie "We Were Soldiers." "You sir are not."

This quote from Lt. General Puller when surrounded by the Chinese on the Chosin Reservoir in Korea may fit your situations on this thread better.


“All right, they’re on our left, they’re on our right, they’re in front of us, they’re behind us…they can’t get away this time”

Either way enjoy your rifle and your hunt! The evidence says you are quite competent with the rifle.

 

[Foxi]

Custer was an idiot.

Yes Sir.

But here one of the best pics of him .

I fear, the Grizzly he shot with his .458 Win Mag and Hornady DGX bullet

 

[Foxi]

great shooting
wonderful girl
and I make me sorrow at 50 meters

 

[Shootist43]

You are right Foxi, I could watch that gal miss all day long. But as they say "even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while."

 

[Foxi]

.458 Win .Mag -- .480 gn Degol sn---100 meter,red dot sight (burris fastfire)
under 3 centimeters with my Ferlach o/u double.
But all the upper barrel, the lower one worries me a little today.

 

[Major Khan]

View attachment 319983

.458 Win .Mag -- .480 gn Degol sn---100 meter,red dot sight (burris fastfire)
under 3 centimeters with my Ferlach o/u double.
But all the upper barrel, the lower one worries me a little today.

It will improve , Mr. Foxi . Do not worry . Did you try 500 grain Hornady metal covered solid bullets ?
Most of the .458 Winchester magnum calibre double barreled rifles from the 1960s were ( to my knowledge ) regulated with Hornady , Winchester or Remington ammunition .

 

[Luvthunt]

JFET,
Sorry to be anal but Chesty was a Bird colonel at the reservoir and did not get his first star until early 1951 (Jan.?)
I served under Gen Puller as a Pfc and a Cpl. (1951)

 

[Newboomer]

This maybe a little off topic but I have had a question about double rifle accuracy. Rifle is regulated for a specific load. You get to Africa, rifle is there but no ammo. Now what. Can you shoot another load with any kind of accuracy? Do you shoot Kentucky windage and hope you hit somewhere close? Do you end up with a very expensive club sitting in your room and use the outfitter's rifle? Will a double shoot any good with a different load?
This has always made me quite leery of doubles for that reason. A bolt gun will shoot whatever you put in it and with a few sight in rounds you're usually good to go.
Thoughts and comments?

 

[Major Khan]

This maybe a little off topic but I have had a question about double rifle accuracy. Rifle is regulated for a specific load. You get to Africa, rifle is there but no ammo. Now what. Can you shoot another load with any kind of accuracy? Do you shoot Kentucky windage and hope you hit somewhere close? Do you end up with a very expensive club sitting in your room and use the outfitter's rifle? Will a double shoot any good with a different load?
This has always made me quite leery of doubles for that reason. A bolt gun will shoot whatever you put in it and with a few sight in rounds you're usually good to go.
Thoughts and comments?

You have raised a very sensible concern , New Boomer . This had actually happened to a client of our's . He had a .375 Holland & Holland magnum calibre double barreled rifle , regulated for ICI Kynoch cartridges . He wanted to hunt a royal Bengal tiger , but had exhausted his stock of ICI Kynoch soft point cartridges by then . We ( who did not know any better at the time) managed to acquire a dozen Winchester Silvertip soft point 300 grain cartridges from an American client ( who had brought along a Winchester Model 70 in similar calibre ) for him to use in his double barreled rifle . The groupings which the rifle then started producing were extremely poor , compared to the groupings produced previously by the old ICI Kynoch cartridges . This is 1 of the biggest advantages of the bolt rifle over the double barreled rifle . The bolt rifle is far less of a " picky " eater of ammunition than a double barreled rifle . This can be a God send in those far off places , where 1 some times must make do with whatever ammunition they can get their hands on . A bolt rifle is better equipped to handle such an unfortunate set of circumstances by accurately shooting any cartridges ( within reason , of course ) which the shooter may get his hands on .

As a comparison :
A .375 Holland & Holland magnum calibre double barrel rifle may be regulated for ICI Kynoch cartridges only. However , a Winchester Model 70 bolt rifle can fire ICI Kynoch , Winchester Silvertip and Hornady cartridges accurately ( as well as most other brands of cartridges )

Even though l am an avid fan of double barreled rifles , l recognize that this is an extremely big disadvantage of a double barreled rifle .

 

[Newboomer]

Major Khan,
Being caught without ammo is what concerns me. If I am hunting dg I want a rifle I am intimately familiar with. I don't want to have to use a strange gun in a touchy situation. There is an old addage in skiing that might relate: A good skier can ski any ski. Therefore one might say a good rifleman can shoot any rifle. That is so but what about his markmanship? He can shoot but can he hit? Thank you just the same but I will stick to my good old bolt gun.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Say what you want about that instant second shot, but lose that ammo supply and you've got mated muskets praying for minute of barn door.

 

[grand veneur]

Major Khan,
Being caught without ammo is what concerns me. If I am hunting dg I want a rifle I am intimately familiar with. I don't want to have to use a strange gun in a touchy situation. There is an old addage in skiing that might relate: A good skier can ski any ski. Therefore one might say a good rifleman can shoot any rifle. That is so but what about his markmanship? He can shoot but can he hit? Thank you just the same but I will stick to my good old bolt gun.

With your good old bolt gun you are on the safe side and you don't have to adapt your hunt to your rifle.

I also have 2 DR in my gun safe and years of hunting experience in Africa and Asia. That's the reason why I have allowed myself several times to give my opinion on the use of a DR for hunting DG and generally. This rifle is coming from a time that no longer exist. The hunting conditions are changing increasingly so that this kind of rifles may only be suitable for the backup by hunting DG or by drive hunting , ...and with the right ammunition for your rifle. There is still a market for such rifles because it is a kind of rifle with an aura and because books are read about hunting in Africa and Asia from earlier and past times.

 

[Major Khan]

With your good old bolt gun you are on the safe side and you don't have to adapt your hunt to your rifle.

I also have 2 DR in my gun safe and years of hunting experience in Africa and Asia. That's the reason why I have allowed myself several times to give my opinion on the use of a DR for hunting DG and generally. This rifle is coming from a time that no longer exist. The hunting conditions are changing increasingly so that this kind of rifles may only be suitable for the backup by hunting DG or by drive hunting , ...and with the right ammunition for your rifle. There is still a market for such rifles because it is a kind of rifle with an aura and because books are read about hunting in Africa and Asia from earlier and past times.

There is also another point which just came to my mind . In the " Golden Age " of double barreled rifles , the only (or main) manufacturer of British sporting ammunition was ICI Kynoch . Therefore , a double barreled .450/400 Nitro Express calibre rifle ( for example) would in all probability be regulated for Kynoch cartridges . This would not be so much a problem in the old days ( in regards to regulation ) , because the only .450/400 Nitro Express cartridges available would be those made by ICI Kynoch . However , after ICI Kynoch stopped manufacturing centre fire cartridges , that was when it began to dawn upon hunters that the regulation problem is actually more serious than they thought . The problem was even more apparent in double barreled rifles chambered in .375 Holland & Holland magnum , but regulated for the old ICI Kynoch cartridges . While there was plenty of .375 Holland & Holland magnum calibre ammunition available from Winchester , Remington , RWS or Hornady , they could not produce accurate results in those double barreled rifles without having the makers re regulate their point of aim with the new ammunition brands and loadings .
Sometimes , even 2 batches of ammunition from the same company will not produce the same results in a double barreled rifle . For example , a 9.3 × 74 R calibre double barreled rifle regulated for 1960s era RWS ammunition may not produce accurate results with modern era RWS ammunition ( which may be loaded to different specifications ) .

 

[grand veneur]

@Major Khan

It's true about Kynoch , nevertheless , at that time there were also problems with unsuitable ammunition for DR that was delivered to Africa and India.

If you own a very old DR , of course you have a problem finding the right ammunition for it. They were all regulated for cartridges loaded with Cordite , which makes finding the right load nowadays sometimes very difficult. I have shot old 577NE Kynoch cartridges in very good shape. Accuracy was good , however , they are not safe and can no longer be used for hunting and also shooting. Cordite ages badly. Those who are not reloaders sometimes have problems , but luckily modern Kynoch ammunition can often be shoot accurate in some old DR.