Experience & Value Versus Cost

[siml]

@Clayton , I would pay to see you do shoulder mount..........

 

[KAROO WILD Safaris]

We just finished the show season and while I still have some bit of liver function, I thought I would do sort of a soapbox thread.

One disturbing trend that I'm seeing is guys passing on great hunts and experiences and opting for a quick cheap hunt instead. Not all of us are wealthy and we cant afford to travel the world chasing women and buffalo with no regard for cost, sanity or STD's. But, I think there are very well priced hunts out there that offer an amazing experience and are overlooked based on price alone.

Ranch hunting is fun and the experience is great, but comparing a ranch hunt to a hunt in Tanzania, is frankly just silly. Ive been lucky enough to do a lot of hunting all over the world and the truth is if, you cant afford to buy what you want, then you are better off saving another year and get exactly what you want. Hang onto your car one more year, buy one less gun/scope this year, you really don't need a 90" TV, stop kidding yourself the youngest child will never go to college. Take that money and put it in your hunting account instead.

I'm using buff as an example, as it comes up so much. I had a couple guys pass on hunts we had put together, they instead book with shady outfitter X offering super cheap buff, no daily rates, plane fare, strippers, etc on his 200 acre farm. Guess what they were unhappy with the result. So instead of spending a bit more money or saving another year, it cost them a lot more in the end. They got an immature buff that was a pot shoot on the first day and then the outfitter drove them in circles shooting PG.

Hunts in Zim with first class outfitters are running $12-15k, TZ $17k, MOZ $13-15K, RSA free range hunts can be a had for $14-16K. Don't get me wrong there are some great ranch hunts and some legit operators doing proper hunts on big properties, use them. But please stop giving advice and telling us your outfitter is the best and his 500 acre farm is as good as Zim or TZ, I'm really tired of hearing it.

Save another year and book the hunt you really want don't just book because its cheap or choose a different outfitter because he is $100 cheaper. Im not the cheapest guy neither is Aaron at @Global Hunting Resources we offer quality hunts and great experiences at fair prices. We are also a resource on the site for you guys who are new and have questions about hunts.

Fully appreciate what you're saying especially re dangers game hunting. A ranch hunt in SA doesn't compare to Zim, Mozambique or Tanzania.

But for numbers and variety of plains game available in SA on ranch or otherwise they simply can't compare. And for variety of habitats, SA is rated within the top 12 of countries ranked in biodiversity and highest in Africa.

For some guys hunting different animals in different habitats by different means is an attraction.

All of Africa is amazing when you consider the variety of experiences each country offers.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Fully appreciate what you're saying especially re dangers game hunting. A ranch hunt in SA doesn't compare to Zim, Mozambique or Tanzania.

But for numbers and variety of plains game available in SA on ranch or otherwise they simply can't compare. And for variety of habitats, SA is rated within the top 12 of countries ranked in biodiversity and highest in Africa.

For some guys hunting different animals in different habitats by different means is an attraction.

All of Africa is amazing when you consider the variety of experiences each country offers.

Agree with you Victor. Not even mentioning the diversity of the different areas within South Africa.

 

[Clayton]

@Clayton , I would pay to see you do shoulder mount..........

I've heard "The best things in life are free". Problem is this one would come riddled with hidden costs that wouldn't show up for some time after the event.

 

[enysse]

I will politely state that I have never hunted cape buffalo in RSA, just because I wanted to hunt them in the wild, either Tanzania or Mozambique. If I can't afford it then the dream will never happen and I'm okay with that sequence of events.

I think hunting has really skyrocketed in prices. I'm at the point were I have to say no to a lot of bucket stuff items. That is just reality. My wages are not keeping up with the cost of hunting. I worked over 3500 hours last year and really don't have much to show for my efforts.....which in some ways sounds stupid on my part. I have to re-evaluate everything right now and see what my options are to make my dreams happen. But I'm not going to work my ass off to pay for a leopard hunt that is skyrocketing through the roof due to demand.

I think the plains game hunt of RSA and Namibia are great value hunts, you will see nothing better in North America for the dollar. I think this is where my budget is at and what I can afford without putting my financial future in jeopardy.

I think the wild hunts of North America, Africa......anywhere for that matter are great experiences and will create great memories but most have skyrocketed out of control in costs due to desire and the expenses to run an operation there too.

 

[siml]

@enysse , I think the prices have come down, not skyrocketed.

 

[enysse]

Simon, less than 12 years ago, I could have hunt leopard in Zimbabwe for $400 a day for a 14 day hunt. Trophy fee was reasonable, so were the plains game prices. Now people are charging $1300+ a day plus higher trophy fees. My wages doubled in that time not tripled or quadrupled.

I will say your prices are EXCELLENT for the hunts you offer. I think the plains game hunting in Mozambique is probably something in the future for me.

 

[rookhawk]

@James Jeffrey - HuntingAgent.com Well done. Best thing written on the Internet all day!

 

[Royal27]

Fully appreciate what you're saying especially re dangers game hunting. A ranch hunt in SA doesn't compare to Zim, Mozambique or Tanzania.

But for numbers and variety of plains game available in SA on ranch or otherwise they simply can't compare. And for variety of habitats, SA is rated within the top 12 of countries ranked in biodiversity and highest in Africa.

For some guys hunting different animals in different habitats by different means is an attraction.

All of Africa is amazing when you consider the variety of experiences each country offers.

I think you're spot on with this post Victor.

In this case you've qualified the customer that wants to hunt in SA for a particular reason. No one is saying that SA, or farm hunts, have no value. They do. they aren't the only value though, nor are they for every situation.

It's the square peg in a round hole approach that drives me nuts. And that approach happens way too often.

 

[Shootist43]

Could it be that there are multiple different hunting styles that cater to hunters with diverse expectations? I'm 73, I'm physically challenged in that I cannot walk very far, my reaction time is slower than it once was, my eye sight isn't what it used to be. Yet on my first and maybe only PG hunt resulted in 5 of the 6 animals rated as SCI trophies. We hunted a number of different concessions generally 10,000 acres each (roughly 15.5 square miles) for different species. All totaled the outfitter had access to almost a quarter million acres of huntable land. While not exactly free range it wasn't a "pen" either. Was I a happy camper, you bet. My needs and expectations were met at a price that I could afford. As a result of my safari, would I be ashamed to share a beer and swap hunting stories with a fellow hunter that went on a free range DG hunt. Absolutely not. From a free range outfitters perspective it is probably a sheer waste of time talking to most first time PG hunters. But here is the dilemma, quite a number of the first time PG hunters will be going back for more. Once the expected African trophies are on the wall, hunters tend to be more selective about the animals taken and hunting style. We all prefer to do business with someone we know, even if only a little bit, like from talking to outfitters at a show. At the same time most working folks have a budget. I'm not cheap, but I like to get good value for my money. At the same time I cannot unrealistically have "champagne tastes on a beer budget." I bare no ill will towards the hunters/outfitters that can go on hunts that I can only dream about. That would be foolish, in fact I envy them.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Having read this thread, I had a number of thoughts I would like to put into a reply. But I'm awfully busy here at work today, so on a somewhat lighter note, this is one thing that came to mind. I'm not inclined to tell people how or where to spend their money. And I realize that price and bargaining are part of the process, but there comes a point when that crosses over to the ridiculous and becomes stupid. So on that note, just for you @James Jeffrey - HuntingAgent.com......

 

[enysse]

Phil, I had that speech with my employer last month.....it didn't go over that well as I expected. My simple reply back was it you don't show me the $$$$, I will take my skills elsewhere. They were fine with it, as I expected them to say...............which leaves me packing my bags.

But you are right Phil, never tell people how to make their money and how to spend it.

 

[JamesJ]

@Karoo Wild Safaris @KMG Hunting Safaris guys, I'm certainly not knocking RSA, and im not singling anyone out. The diversity there is almost unmatched, the job the South Africans have done for conserving and growing the wildlife is amazing. I've hunted there before and will again. I am however singling out guys who hunt tiny properties and as a blanket statement say you should hunt RSA for everything. if a client calls me and asks me to hunt in Mozambique with @Traditional Mozambique Safaris that's the hunt I sell them. I would probably make more on a RSA hunt, but that's not what they are asking for. Along the same vein, if a client says I want to hunt a huge property, we don't sell them a hunt in 500 acres.

My main gripe is really, the guys doing put and take on these small places. @Karoo Wild Safaris hunts 160,000 acres and Marius @KMG Hunting Safaris hunts some very big properties as well, up to 60,000 acres. Is that fair chase yes, hell yes, I don't disagree with that. For many of the other small outfitter hunting there, don't piss on me and tell me its raining, the tire tracks are still in the road and the dust has not even settled from the lorry delivering animals.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

@Karoo Wild Safaris @KMG Hunting Safaris guys, I'm certainly not knocking RSA, and im not singling anyone out. The diversity there is almost unmatched, the job the South Africans have done for conserving and growing the wildlife is amazing. I've hunted there before and will again. I am however singling out guys who hunt tiny properties and as a blanket statement say you should hunt RSA for everything. if a client calls me and asks me to hunt in Mozambique with @Traditional Mozambique Safaris that's the hunt I sell them. I would probably make more on a RSA hunt, but that's not what they are asking for. Along the same vein, if a client says I want to hunt a huge property, we don't sell them a hunt in 500 acres.

My main gripe is really, the guys doing put and take on these small places. @Karoo Wild Safaris hunts 160,000 acres and Marius @KMG Hunting Safaris hunts some very big properties as well, up to 60,000 acres. Is that fair chase yes, hell yes, I don't disagree with that. For many of the other small outfitter hunting there, don't piss on me and tell me its raining, the tire tracks are still in the road and the dust has not even settled from the lorry delivering animals.

Never once took it that you were knocking RSA. I think you have hit the nail on the head with this one.

 

[JamesJ]

Thx Marius

 

[KAROO WILD Safaris]

James

I never took it that way either. My post was just a reminder of what SA has to offer hunters. I represent what I have to offer not what a few unscrupulous outfitters choose to offer.

 

[JamesJ]

Thx Victor, there are hunters who appreciate what you do.

 

[BRICKBURN]

.......... all about marketing and promising tons of BS stuff that you cant deliver or never intended to and people swallow it down. then they whine and complain after they got what they asked for and I have NO SYMPATHY FOR THEM! ...........

The problem becomes an industry issue in the aftermath. When the loud bitching and moaning starts.
"I went to Africa and got screwed. I'll never go back."

 

[Wheels]

We just finished the show season and while I still have some bit of liver function, I thought I would do sort of a soapbox thread.

One disturbing trend that I'm seeing is guys passing on great hunts and experiences and opting for a quick cheap hunt instead. Not all of us are wealthy and we cant afford to travel the world chasing women and buffalo with no regard for cost, sanity or STD's. But, I think there are very well priced hunts out there that offer an amazing experience and are overlooked based on price alone.

Ranch hunting is fun and the experience is great, but comparing a ranch hunt to a hunt in Tanzania, is frankly just silly. Ive been lucky enough to do a lot of hunting all over the world and the truth is if, you cant afford to buy what you want, then you are better off saving another year and get exactly what you want. Hang onto your car one more year, buy one less gun/scope this year, you really don't need a 90" TV, stop kidding yourself the youngest child will never go to college. Take that money and put it in your hunting account instead.

I'm using buff as an example, as it comes up so much. I had a couple guys pass on hunts we had put together, they instead book with shady outfitter X offering super cheap buff, no daily rates, plane fare, strippers, etc on his 200 acre farm. Guess what they were unhappy with the result. So instead of spending a bit more money or saving another year, it cost them a lot more in the end. They got an immature buff that was a pot shoot on the first day and then the outfitter drove them in circles shooting PG.

Hunts in Zim with first class outfitters are running $12-15k, TZ $17k, MOZ $13-15K, RSA free range hunts can be a had for $14-16K. Don't get me wrong there are some great ranch hunts and some legit operators doing proper hunts on big properties, use them. But please stop giving advice and telling us your outfitter is the best and his 500 acre farm is as good as Zim or TZ, I'm really tired of hearing it.

Save another year and book the hunt you really want don't just book because its cheap or choose a different outfitter because he is $100 cheaper. Im not the cheapest guy neither is Aaron at @Global Hunting Resources we offer quality hunts and great experiences at fair prices. We are also a resource on the site for you guys who are new and have questions about hunts.

Excellent post James!

Anybody who has the financial and physical ability to hunt wild Africa, should take advantage of it. You owe it to yourself, if only once. Wild Africa may not be around to hunt indefinitely. Unfortunately, the associated costs of hunting wild Africa will probably rise as well. Possibly at exponential rates as supply dwindles.

It is not just the experience. Since we are talking about buffalo, buffalo aren't all equal. I bet virtually all of the PH's and most of the experienced hunters can go through photo after photo of buffalo trophies posted in the buffalo trophy section and tell 80% and probably well over 90% of the time if the buff is free range or farm raised. If a guy posts that he wants a free range buffalo, don't tell him that a farm raised one is just the same. It is not.

Nothing against farm buffalo. There is a market for everything. But before you put down a deposit, just ask your self. Is the experience and trophy worth $2,000-$5,000 less, just to get a buffalo?

There are some people that only want to hunt a farm. That is fine. There are others like @Red Leg who will never hunt inside a fence, even if that means going home empty handed.(Please correct me if I am misstating you) I believe this would include Bubye and Save, which I would consider virtually free range. I will hunt both free range and farms. Over time I have developed mental requirements on what is an acceptable farm size for myself. The animals may all be self sustaining, but it is still a farm.

The great thing is we can all pursue our passion at whatever level and price point we desire!

Happy Hunting.

 

[JamesJ]

Well said @Wheels