Here we go again - tipping question

[Hogpatrol]

The PH/Owners I've hunted with, refused personal tips. As advised by them, I paid approximately 15% divided between the skinner/trackers and kitchen/laundry help, Always brought extra new clothing or other goodies like knives, mini-leathermans, or other items not usually available, like hot hands or food items not sold in country. Always left behind clothing, socks, etc.

 

[JOHN GRENZ]

My question is hunting with the owner/ PH. My family 6 people are hunting a family farm in June of 26 in Namibia. Will be myself and Mrs. probably hunting with the farm owner. My son and grandson will be hunting with owners son. Daughter in law and granddaughter will split time between camp and going along on hunts especially in sits at waterholes, etc. Owners wife and daughter in law do cooking and take care of some camp chores. They do have limited staff for skinning, room cleaning, etc. I know tipping for staff but how about the farm owners? Will be in the 25k range for total package.

 

[Muskox]

I’m sorry but I can’t see justifying tipping a white cook more than a non-white cook for the same work.

Agree with you on hating tipping culture and I live in it daily.

I have only been places where the cook was one of the PH's wives. Maybe that is a better analogy.

 

[CamoManJ]

On my first safari, I followed Jerome’s advice in addition to AH member’s advice on various threads in aggregate and came up with my own ballpark average. I did end up adding to my 3 categories of tip. The service was exceptional beyond expected and easily warranted such increases. The outfitter nor PH never suggested or got involved in how much to tip. Based on personal experiences throughout the safari getting to know the outfitter and from previous client references on AH, I knew I could trust the family operation with being more than fair, 100%.
I handed the outfit office manager 2 envelopes to be distributed based on Seniority & one to my PH. They all did a great job as a Team. My PH and hunting team were gifted US quality shirts, socks, boots & lights. The kids at staff camp got candy.

Yea, I admit I did stress about this before the safari, glad I brought extra cash and gifts and I was happy with the experience.

The 3 categories were:
1-PH
2-Hunt Team (Trackers & Driver)
3-Camp Team (Cook/Skinners/Maids)

To the OP…I’m reluctant to take advice on tipping amount or percentage from the service provider, that’s my money and job to decide. How to distribute tips is tricky, I focused on conversations that naturally built trust & feel 100% about my decision. Trust your gut as I did, the AH community will help us with being in the ballpark with average tipping guidelines. Good luck.

 

[Nyati]

Heard from a friend, Europeans don't tip. Also heard from a friend, some outfitters won't deal with Europeans.

Certainly not my experience, I fact, when I asked, I was told that tips were not "required", I could tip if I wanted to, and whatever I felt like.

Only on my buffalo hunt, there was this suggestion of what american hunters tipped, to which I replied, too bad, I am not american

 

[UKHunter]

Heard from a friend, Europeans don't tip. Also heard from a friend, some outfitters won't deal with Europeans.

As a European (or ex one after Brexit) I can assure you everyone I know tips. However, its a tip for excellent work or effort and not inline with US 'norm'.

I also know of outfitters who have 'rest of the world price lists' and 'American price lists'.. I cant tell you how many times I see on here people saying they got a 'steal' and stating the fees on a European hunt and believe me they didnt. Maybe compared to the cost of hunting back in the US but not for European norms.

 

[Flbt]

I am European, and we have snake in the pocket.
So what I will write take with a grain of salt.
Yes, overly generous.

There are variations:
If you hunt plains game on farm or ranch, smaller tipping. If you hunt in communal area or hunting area concession higher tipping.
I would stick to 10% (to avoid American forum members killing me), as a general rule. I say this, understanding American tipping culture, not speaking for European standard. (much less to be excepted)
I found somewhere Craig Boddingtons recommendation of 10% for tipping, but I can not recall was it in some of his books, or in some of internet articles he wrote. I memorized this before my first safari.

All American don’t go in for the tip coultur so to speak. In a farming community I was all ways told the tip was for excellent service
But most places were ate at were mom and pop type place
It became a way for bar and restaurant owners not to pay there staff
Back when I had a inside look
I was told the servers made 2.10$ the tips were to make it get to minimum wage if not the. Owner had to make up the difference to minimum wage ( early 90s)
I ask why we’ll it keeps cost of the drink- meal down
I am like no not when you add tip
I rather just pay what ever to get you up to minimum
That’s where I was told flat out by all the girls hell no
We use enough tip money to hit minimum wage where the owners don’t pay.
But every one here when it’s broken down make about 20$ Hr
And we only clam mw if I remember right was some where close to 4.10$ a hr
So with tips there making a tax free bacilly 16$ over there mw pay
They don’t want to lose that extra tax free money
At the time that was better pay than what most state employees were making

 

[Flbt]

Outfitters who complain their staff disappear after receiving tips is a sign of an unprofessional outfitter to me. There is a difference between professional trackers and skinners and random farm hands that got the title that week.

You need to check out the southern us
It’s tax return time
There a group of people that will get earn income tax credit
A lot for them will get sick, change jobs or get fired from laying off from work
Just saying

 

[Hogpatrol]

All American don’t go in for the tip coultur so to speak. In a farming community I was all ways told the tip was for excellent service
But most places were ate at were mom and pop type place
It became a way for bar and restaurant owners not to pay there staff
Back when I had a inside look
I was told the servers made 2.10$ the tips were to make it get to minimum wage if not the. Owner had to make up the difference to minimum wage ( early 90s)
I ask why we’ll it keeps cost of the drink- meal down
I am like no not when you add tip
I rather just pay what ever to get you up to minimum
That’s where I was told flat out by all the girls hell no
We use enough tip money to hit minimum wage where the owners don’t pay.
But every one here when it’s broken down make about 20$ Hr
And we only clam mw if I remember right was some where close to 4.10$ a hr
So with tips there making a tax free bacilly 16$ over there mw pay
They don’t want to lose that extra tax free money
At the time that was better pay than what most state employees were making

It's not tax free anymore. I have a neice that's waits tables in a $$$ eatery. The wait staff get a W2 with a certain percentage of their customer receipts.

Tip recordkeeping and reporting | Internal Revenue Service

Provides information and resources dealing with reporting tip income for all industries that deal with tipping of employees.

www.irs.gov

 

[Flbt]

Back then most pe

It's not tax free anymore. I have a neice that's waits tables in a $$$ eatery. The wait staff get a W2 with a certain percentage of their customer receipts.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tip-recordkeeping-and-reportin

http://

It's not tax free anymore. I have a neice that's waits tables in a $$$ eatery. The wait staff get a W2 with a certain percentage of their customer receipts.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tip-recordkeeping-and-rep

http://

Well that was back in 90 where most still used cash
And even if you get

It's not tax free anymore. I have a neice that's waits tables in a $$$ eatery. The wait staff get a W2 with a certain percentage of their customer receipts.

Tip recordkeeping and reporting | Internal Revenue Service

Provides information and resources dealing with reporting tip income for all industries that deal with tipping of employees.

www.irs.gov

a w2 report if it’s in cash well

 

[375Fox]

You need to check out the southern us
It’s tax return time
There a group of people that will get earn income tax credit
A lot for them will get sick, change jobs or get fired from laying off from work
Just saying

In US a business owner can’t find help. In Africa there is no shortage of workers to hire and find the good ones. I see no excuse.

 

[Flbt]

In US a business owner can’t find help. In Africa there is no shortage of workers to hire and find the good ones. I see no excuse.

There are places where there really is no good help in the south
Remember when we grew tobacco big time down here?
They would hire out convict time
Put them in camps/ Comuity what ever
The owners payed the man a 50$ bounty for every boy child he fathered and 20 $ for every girl
Didn’t matter if they were married or not
There is big time remanice of that coulture here today
When I went back to a public school my last 2 years of high school most girls had a kid or 2 a few had a lot like 12
Working the farms if you had a man you actually payed a bonus to
You knew who would be at work tomorrow and who you would see in a few days.
Seriously it is in all forms of work here
My cousin is a low level boss at one of the bigger city’s city work departments
He has crews worth of people that will call in sick at income tax time
When the stimulus money came in they did the exact same thing

In theses county’s if you fire them you still have to deal with the same behavior when you rehire

I have a buddy that moved here from alanta ga really not that far away
He could not believe what we had to work with
Well his crew are all Latin now where he does not have to deal with the locals

 

[375Fox]

There are places where there really is no good help in the south
Remember when we grew tobacco big time down here?
They would hire out convict time
Put them in camps/ Comuity what ever
The owners payed the man a 50$ bounty for every boy child he fathered and 20 $ for every girl
Didn’t matter if they were married or not
There is big time remanice of that coulture here today
When I went back to a public school my last 2 years of high school most girls had a kid or 2 a few had a lot like 12
Working the farms if you had a man you actually payed a bonus to
You knew who would be at work tomorrow and who you would see in a few days.
Seriously it is in all forms of work here
My cousin is a low level boss at one of the bigger city’s city work departments
He has crews worth of people that will call in sick at income tax time
When the stimulus money came in they did the exact same thing

In theses county’s if you fire them you still have to deal with the same behavior when you rehire

I have a buddy that moved here from alanta ga really not that far away
He could not believe what we had to work with
Well his crew are all Latin now where he does not have to deal with the locals

Not sure how that applies to Africa. The unemployment/under employment rate is greater than 90%. Asking how long staff has worked for an outfitter tells me a lot about their operation. Professional outfitters find and retain quality help. Amateurs pick up random farm hands as needed.

 

[Flbt]

Not sure how that applies to Africa. The unemployment/under employment rate is greater than 90%. Asking how long staff has worked for an outfitter tells me a lot about their operation. Professional outfitters find and retain quality help. Amateurs pick up random farm hands as needed.

I was thinking more of a culture thing than the number and % of workers type thing
I very well could be wrong
I definitely do not know of first hand info on Africa just some stuff I have read and what others have said
I am just pointing out that it is very common to have some people taking days when money in hand happens
And personally I would think keeping a well payed fairly easy government job that pays more than the private sector would be more important than a few days playing hooky
So if they do it why wouldn’t the people there pull the same thing?

Like I said I very well could be completely off on this

 

[375Fox]

I was thinking more of a culture thing than the number and % of workers type thing
I very well could be wrong
I definitely do not know of first hand info on Africa just some stuff I have read and what others have said
I am just pointing out that it is very common to have some people taking days when money in hand happens
And personally I would think keeping a well payed fairly easy government job that pays more than the private sector would be more important than a few days playing hooky
So if they do it why wouldn’t the people there pull the same thing?

Like I said I very well could be completely off on this

Having a job in hunting industry is a privileged position. They stand to make much more than the average worker because of tips. There are a large number of people readily available to take their position if work isn’t a priority for them. The last PH I hunted with has had his 2 trackers and driver something around 10+ years. It’s because they show up when the hunt starts, hunt 10-21 days, then are ready again when the next hunt starts. If a PH’s trackers don’t show up when the hunt starts that’s a not a sign of a professional PH, outfitter, or staff. There is a major difference of an operation that finds farm hands and assigns the title of tracker for 10 days vs those that employ professionals who understand their job. All the outfitters and PHs I’ve hunted with want me to hand staff tips directly at the end of the hunt. If an outfitter or PH wants to hold their money, I’d also question where that money truly goes. If they don’t trust their team why would someone expect to have a quality hunt with that outfitter?

 

[Tusker]

I hesitate to post this in the Tipping Guide section because I'm afraid that it will never be seen.

Over the years, my rule of thumb that I have followed for the sake of simplicity has been this: 10% for most hunts; 20% for dangerous game hunts or for exceptional results (e.g., Boone & Crockett animal in North America). That's the total amount to be spread among everyone. It has actually worked well and even maps fairly well to the tipping guides that I have seen. Only once have I deviated from that. That was a case in Canada where the guide was terrible - bordering on incompetent, to the point of putting both of our lives in danger. Then the tip was much less.

Here is my question. My next safari is for plains game. The outfitter has a suggested a tipping structure (mainly $/day for the PH) that would be equivalent to 25% - 33% of the total cost of the safari. That seems to be extremely generous. Is there something wrong with how I am looking at this? Thoughts?

F**ck! Never in my 22 years in the industry I’ve seen this! And much less for a fenced safari!!
Unless you are doing a 1 or 2 day safari where you are spending less than $2,000 and obtaining a great result. Then the % might be above 10%.
I would actually ask the outfitter if he is even realizing what he is asking for

 

[Flbt]

Having a job in hunting industry is a privileged position. They stand to make much more than the average worker because of tips. There are a large number of people readily available to take their position if work isn’t a priority for them. The last PH I hunted with has had his 2 trackers and driver something around 10+ years. It’s because they show up when the hunt starts, hunt 10-21 days, then are ready again when the next hunt starts. If a PH’s trackers don’t show up when the hunt starts that’s a not a sign of a professional PH, outfitter, or staff. There is a major difference of an operation that finds farm hands and assigns the title of tracker for 10 days vs those that employ professionals who understand their job. All the outfitters and PHs I’ve hunted with want me to hand staff tips directly at the end of the hunt. If an outfitter or PH wants to hold their money, I’d also question where that money truly goes. If they don’t trust their team why would someone expect to have a quality hunt with that outfitter?

Ok you been there so I will take your word for it
But one more question if there main guys stay and are dependable.
What about the guys that do the less glamorous jobs?
What if they took off because of money?
Ok there easy to replace. One hunter leaves the next group is there tomorrow.
If any of the little workers leave how quickly can they be replaced and with 0 effecti on the next hunters hunt?

As far as money goes I have went with what the person I was dealing with said

I got help from other buddy farm workers I payed them what he said to and the day he said to pay them


Like I said I have no experience over there
And what was said about help going on a bender seems reasonable to what I have seen here
But I will happily take your experience and hope to see for myself one day

 

[375Fox]

Ok you been there so I will take your word for it
But one more question if there main guys stay and are dependable.
What about the guys that do the less glamorous jobs?
What if they took off because of money?
Ok there easy to replace. One hunter leaves the next group is there tomorrow.
If any of the little workers leave how quickly can they be replaced and with 0 effecti on the next hunters hunt?

As far as money goes I have went with what the person I was dealing with said

I got help from other buddy farm workers I payed them what he said to and the day he said to pay them


Like I said I have no experience over there
And what was said about help going on a bender seems reasonable to what I have seen here
But I will happily take your experience and hope to see for myself one day

I hunted a camp where The waiter (a good one until this) decided to drink an entire bottle of the camp’s whiskey on my final night and then failed to wake up next morning. He was immediately fired and sent on first vehicle several hours to town.