I don't bring this up lightly...

[375Fox]

I don't see why this is on a public post. Report it to the moderators and let them decide it. If you have a dispute (and this is a small dispute), find a way to work it out without demeaning the reputation of another in public.

Moderators don’t act as middlemen on sales here. It’s only member to member.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Incorrect…there were two…one in the cheek piece, you can see it did not 100% come out but certainly not what zfranz showed then the other side where it came out so well you are saying there must be another side missing…the two pictures are of both sides of the stick after linseed oil wipe and iron over a moist cloth

Here's the images you posted of the FORE END after "fixing" it. I have reoriented images to north and south.

Here's Franz's image of damaged fore end.

Your side view of the fore end is from the opposite side. Your top view does not show that side completely.

 

[Quest#1]

Interesting. After making a deal with him a fews years ago on a double i learned about his word…

 

[wyosteve]

My question is: why would a seller use photos taken a year earlier in his ad? Seems questionable to me.

 

[bohannon]

IMO @Rare Breed made it right by immediately refunding the money and some of the shipping costs. We're talking about a discrepancy of ~1% being argued over here regarding the additional shipping cost. I personally would just chock it up as one of the risks of buying something sight unseen and be thrilled I got my $20k+ back without any hassle if I wasn't happy with the purchase.

 

[Rare Breed]

Sorry Ontereo you are out of control…as I said this was never represented as NIB. There will be scratches if a DR is used to hunt elephant and buff in heavy thorn jess. The gun with all reloading supplies will be going back on sale on GB and GI now that my wipe and iron work is done. Try buying this rifle with my supplies new and see the cost.
My apologies to all members for Frantz thinking this merited a public discussion. However each member has the freedom to do so which makes AH great. I am not losing a once of sleep over this given I have explained my side, sent todays pictures and a copy of JJs invoice showing the inspection. Some members might side with Frantz on the out bound ship and insurance costs which is absolutely fine and is their opinion…it just is not mine. Should we unconditionally guarantee products we sell…YES!!!!! I did that no questions asked

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Sorry Ontereo you are out of control…as I said this was never represented as NIB. There will be scratches if a DR is used to hunt elephant and buff in heavy thorn jess. The gun with all reloading supplies will be going back on sale on GB and GI now that my wipe and iron work is done. Try buying this rifle with my supplies new and see the cost.
My apologies to all members for Frantz thinking this merited a public discussion. However each member has the freedom to do so which makes AH great. I am not losing a once of sleep over this given I have explained my side, sent todays pictures and a copy of JJs invoice showing the inspection. Some members might side with Frantz on the out bound ship and insurance costs which is absolutely fine and is their opinion…it just is not mine. Should we unconditionally guarantee products we sell…YES!!!!! I did that no questions asked

I don’t think you’re in one way wrong in your thinking but from my limited experience selling at gunshows and online through gunpost here in Canada it’s generally better in the long run to just pay them the shipping rather than take the negative publicity.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Sorry Ontereo you are out of control…as I said this was never represented as NIB. There will be scratches if a DR is used to hunt elephant and buff in heavy thorn jess. The gun with all reloading supplies will be going back on sale on GB and GI now that my wipe and iron work is done. Try buying this rifle with my supplies new and see the cost.
My apologies to all members for Frantz thinking this merited a public discussion. However each member has the freedom to do so which makes AH great. I am not losing a once of sleep over this given I have explained my side, sent todays pictures and a copy of JJs invoice showing the inspection. Some members might side with Frantz on the out bound ship and insurance costs which is absolutely fine and is their opinion…it just is not mine. Should we unconditionally guarantee products we sell…YES!!!!! I did that no questions asked

Out of control is normal for Ontario hunter if he started acting like a gentleman I’d assume he was having a stroke.

 

[Quest#1]

Or just post accurate details and pics in the for sale ad and avoid the hassle and making public. Kinda simple. You sell a used car you post pics of the day you purchased it off the showroom floor?

 

[Rare Breed]

While you are right, I did feel Frantz threaten me to do just what he did during our phone call which left a very bad taste in my mouth. Call it principle to me… could I have avoided this by just giving into him…yes but I am just not built that way. I know I did not in any way intentionally misrepresent anything to him shown by my immediate take back no further explanation needed

 

[Flipper Dude]

Not sure what the point of the OP was. Was he attempting to paint @Rare Breed as a less than honest guy to do business with? Was he hoping public pressure from peers on the forum would compel @Rare Breed to kick in the shopping costs in dispute? Was it an attempt to smear since they disputed the costs and it wasn’t rectified to his satisfaction? Curious as to the expected outcome.

 

[DIRTYHARRYBALLISTICS]

You are not correct and in our phone discussion I made clear that I would reimburse the return shipping cost of the rifle since that was the issue nothing else. I made very clear to Franz I did not think it fair for me to reimburse my shipment cost and insurance out. I want to see if Frantz is honest enough to admit my point here. I obviously should have recorded our phone call. In all my transactions I have had zero problems. I always end up providing more than is in my ad without charging extra. I do not appreciate whatsoever Frantz saying I on purpose misrepresented to him the gun. I freely admit I should have wiped down the scratches and used and iron before shipping…my bad. I have just never bought anything used that has been hunted with that did not have some scratches/dings that easily are fixed. One more time I IMMEDIATELY agreed to take back the gun and supplies no questions asked

I dont have a dog in this fight, but i will say, that if a gun is represented as being perfect, it should be as new, no scratches or dings of any sort. However, the condition you sent the rifle in, (in my own personal opinion) is just fine, if not represented as perfect. It is clearly serviceable and in excellent used condition. The dings and scratches appear to be very minor and should be expected from hunting in heavy brush. I see that reference to it being perfect, as the only real fault in this argument. I owned a business for 15 years, and shipping costs on goods are generally split. You buy a turbo and return it, you pay return shipping and typically a restocking fee. So return shipping of any sort being covered is more than honorable in my opinion. I think this could be chalked up to a difference in responsibility for costs, and some miscommunication. I believe both parties want to be honorable in this without being pushed over. It can be a difficult line to walk.

 

[LWPhunt]

Thank you to you both, it feels a bit lopsided, as the seller really has the responsibility of satisfaction of what was proposed. But what is bothersome, that for many of us, regardless of the outcome, and even a scam on gun broker. Don't want to buy on line, which limits access to guns that may trip our trigger.
Sorry anyone has to go thru the hassles, buyer or seller.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

While you are right, I did feel Frantz threaten me to do just what he did during our phone call which left a very bad taste in my mouth. Call it principle to me… could I have avoided this by just giving into him…yes but I am just not built that way. I know I did not in any way intentionally misrepresent anything to him shown by my immediate take back no further explanation needed

But your immediate take back was on your terms not the dissatisfied buyer's. On your terms is hardly "unconditional."

 

[CBH Australia]

I’m surprised you refunded a 20k purchase.
I understand there will be one party with their nose out of joint but the 20k is considerable and if it’s been refunded in good faith I would be thankful that was agreed.
I’m gonna leave it at that.

 

[BJH65]

Not sure what the point of the OP was. Was he attempting to paint @Rare Breed as a less than honest guy to do business with? Was he hoping public pressure from peers on the forum would compel @Rare Breed to kick in the shopping costs in dispute? Was it an attempt to smear since they disputed the costs and it wasn’t rectified to his satisfaction? Curious as to the expected outcome.

I can only conclude the OP felt he was performing an altruistic service to AH members because he felt Rare Breed misrepresented the double rifle although I and others are not in agreement with his conclusion.

 

[RR 314]

If there could be a “do-over”, I’m quite certain that Rare Breed would have utilized pictures contemporaneous with the listing rather than those prior to the last trip. When asked by Rare Breed in a phone call if the buyer/buyer’s representative had any questions, I also think that they would like a do over and ask about any scratches/imperfections. Hell, we all screw up from time to time. I could see utilizing old pictures simply because I have them on my phone, lighting was good, etc. and I didn’t recall picking up substantial dings etc. since. I certainly do understand the angst from the buyer as well as the post hunt(s) condition is substantially degraded.

Let’s just keep this in mind. All of this could’ve been avoided if everyone of utilized “plastic/tupperware” stocks and kept a can of black Krylon handy. Laugh at trivial Shiite, boys, it brings down the temperature.

 

[Rare Breed]

Not sure what the point of the OP was. Was he attempting to paint @Rare Breed as a less than honest guy to do business with? Was he hoping public pressure from peers on the forum would compel @Rare Breed to kick in the shopping costs in dispute? Was it an attempt to smear since they disputed the costs and it wasn’t rectified to his satisfaction? Curious as to the expected outcome.

My take is all the above without question which as I told him left a very bad taste in my mouth. But it’s over as far as I am concerned. I am not changing my position whatsoever and given how many years I have been on here and how many very successful transactions always with very high praise from members I will just trust our members to consider all things

 

[pilar]

Rare Breed made it very clear the rifle had wear and scratches. IMO he certainly didn’t downplay this. The photos by franzfmdavis are extreme closeup photos which certainly amplify the scratches, small dents, wear and tear, etc. I do not believe there was any intent to mislead by Rare Breed. So this is an argument over shipping costs, unnecessary to post IMO. If I had the money I’d buy this double scratches and all.

Sour grapes over shipping? Imo it’s not worth the effort it took to write it
I don’t have a clue what that double is worth, but I assume it and the extra goodie’s it came with were fairly priced accordingly? And I would have kept it and used it as received ( beautiful and magnificent work of art BTW )
I recently got a Winchester M70 pre64 from a collection and it definitely doesn’t look like the pictures ( same serial number but has a little bit of stock damage and a small scratch on the blueing on the barrel) but I bought it for a hunting rifle and wasn’t expecting a museum quality piece. RB seems like a stand up guy and promptly returned the $$$$$ , it’s a internet gun deal count your blessings you are dealing with a person that you didn’t have to pay a attorney to resolve the main issue

 

[sureshot375]

Where do I send the bill for the last 20 minutes of my life I spent reading this??

I don’t think the cosmetic issues were out of line for a used hunting rifle.

Refunding and paying return shipping seems like a reasonable resolution.

What’s the take away?? Maybe sellers need to be hyper vigilant about disclosing dings and dents? Maybe buyers should specifically ask about minor cosmetic flaws on used hunting rifles if it’s important to you???

All I know is there is zero chance I would make a post like this over the amount of money at issue.