Is this normal behavior by a Safari outfitter?

[Scott CWO]

With all due respect (I really mean that) @Scott CWO, you don’t have to gate keep for the outfitter just because you are one.

Someone clearly misquoted and the OP has already said that he didn’t realize that due to his inexperience. The misquoting could have easily been explained but the person didn’t handle it appropriately. Hopefully the owner will take care of the situation.

Also, if $180 a day is a problem for one day perhaps they shouldn’t have offered hunts at that day rate in the first place. The guys are probably hunting 2:1 anyway. The PHs will be taken care of. The owner may have to eat a little but this is not the end of the world.

If the outfitter is the one who has been suspected then they have enough hunters coming through every year to make this a non issue for them financially speaking.

That’s all well and fine but who the outfitter is has nothing to do with my points about real costs and hunters trying to get things as cheap as possible with no regard for an outfitter, especially when the OP is the one who asked for an additional day. If the OP decides to do some sightseeing instead, a hotel room, meals and other activities will likely be more expensive than $180 each unless they just sit around.

On another note, it’s interesting that everyone criticizes the suspected outfitter for being a cheap outfitter and not providing a higher quality experience but then thinks he shouldn’t raise his fees to be more inline with other SA outfitters and hopefully provide a better service.

 

[dchum]

At this point most people commenting have not read the whole thread and are just shouting into the void

(Understandable as it is 7 pages).

 

[Scott CWO]

I would walk away from this entire situation. Even if they confirm that prices for game will not increase above the fee on the price list, and they honour the $180 for the last day you are going to constantly wonder if there are going to be surprises, up to the time that your trophies arrive back in the States. There are so many well priced honest South African outfitters that will accommodate you on this site that you do not have to be taken hostage by the current outfitter.

I have on multiple occasions guided a hunt where a “loss” is made on fuel for a long drive, accommodating a spouse/child, a change in a singe animal’s price etc.

If a quality hunt is offered, the outfitter still makes a profit on the rest of the package, whether sold as a package or broken down in day rates and animal prices, plus you send a happy client home who’s word of mouth is worth ten fold more than the few bucks you end up not having made on that last day rate.

They’ve already made a commitment. Contracts are a commitment on both sides. Hunters should honor commitments as well as outfitters plus they have airfare, etc… already paid. There is no walking away at this point without losing way more than $420.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

That’s all well and fine but who the outfitter is has nothing to do with my points about real costs and hunters trying to get things as cheap as possible with no regard for an outfitter, especially when the OP is the one who asked for an additional day. If the OP decides to do some sightseeing instead, a hotel room, meals and other activities will likely be more expensive than $180 each unless they just sit around.

On another note, it’s interesting that everyone criticizes the suspected outfitter for being a cheap outfitter and not providing a higher quality experience but then thinks he shouldn’t raise his fees to be more inline with other SA outfitters and hopefully provide a better service.

Did you not see the screenshot? He was quoted what he was quoted. The admin could have easily caught their mistake and corrected it and I’m sure the OP would have understood. Instead they gave a lazy answer that didn’t solve the issue. I’m sure the owner will iron it out. Nobody is saying $180 isn’t far too low. They’re just saying it hasn’t been handled properly. Also, I think it’s perfectly understandable for a company to raise their rates but again that is not the issue here.

Obviously the solution here is for the owner to either apologize profusely for the misquote, make his case to the hunters and ask for the full day rate or for him to honor the misquote and eat a little bit of dough.

I’ll also reiterate that if $180 per hunter for four hunters for one day is such a monumental issue then the outfitter really needs to reevaluate his business model.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Boo Boos happen.
The Admin side stepping responsibility with the " tough banana's quote" of price are subject to change, is actually not a proper answer.

"Sorry about that I screwed up and quoted the wrong number rate. The actually daily rate for extra days is $420 1:1. Because I screwed up we can offer you $350 and I keep my job!
I appreciate your understanding and please let me know how you would like to proceed"

Sorted.

 

[dchum]

Boo Boos happen.
The Admin side stepping responsibility with the " tough banana's quote" of price are subject to change, is actually not a proper answer.

"Sorry about that I screwed up and quoted the wrong number rate. The actually daily rate for extra days is $420 1:1. Because I screwed up we can offer you $350 and I keep my job!
I appreciate your understanding and please let me know how you would like to proceed"

Sorted.

Ding ding ding - winner

 

[Scott CWO]

Im going to have to upgrade my hat I bet Gucci makes something that could work?

You’re probably joking but sure, go buy an expensive Gucci hat while not wanting to pay an additional $240 for your extra hunting day. You started this whole thread over $240 on an international hunting trip! $240??

The outfitter has not broken your original contract or raised the daily rate on the contracted package. And yes, the trophy fees might go up a little in 2025 or might not. Even a lawyer can’t always predict exact costs or get everything on your terms but my guess is you will be successful at bullying the outfitter into accepting the $180 for the extra day that YOU requested. You started this thread to gather ammunition for that tactic.

 

[dchum]

You’re probably joking but sure, go buy an expensive Gucci hat while not wanting to pay an additional $240 for your extra hunting day. You started this whole thread over $240 on an international hunting trip! $240??

The outfitter has not broken your original contract or raised the daily rate on the contracted package. And yes, the trophy fees might go up a little in 2025 or might not. Even a lawyer can’t always predict exact costs or get everything on your terms but my guess is you will be successful at bullying the outfitter into accepting the $180 for the extra day that YOU requested. You started this thread to gather ammunition for that tactic.

Dude relax - holy shit

“Probably joking”. DEFINITELY JOKING.

 

[Scott CWO]

This sounds like a frustrating situation. I would just add that $180/day is not what most would charge for a hunting day with a PH but more of an observer day rate.
I would ask questions but don't nix the safari you have set up over this small price increase.

Yeah this whole mess is over $240!! What a joke.

 

[dchum]

Yeah this whole mess is over $240!! What a joke.

Both you and Philip have not read the entire thread and it shows

It’s not over 240 dollars.

The outfitter forgot he even had the extra day - which THEY quoted him.

This might be my first time using the mute function

 

[steve white]

I agree with a lot of your points, but I do not understand why you think the outfitters actions are reasonable? This is not to say that I am correct, but only that I cannot understand it.

I posted this question in part to make sure I was not the one with unreasonable expectations. Many who commented in this thread seem to agree with my initial reaction, but some do not.

I would genuinely appreciate if you could more thoroughly explain your position (if you have the time and inclination) so that I can take it “under advisement” as the judges used to say in court.

I don't think I could have made my post much clearer. You are taking a lawyer's perspective to this incident....and you may just get a lawyer's result--which means that the PH will "go through the motions" of taking you out one more day for $180, but make sure that the MINIMUM is all you get for those dollars. And he could sabotage the results without you being the wiser. He probably won't, in order to insure tips, since he is not the outfitter. But in my opinion you are poisoning the well, and putting your total enjoyment of the original package in jeopardy. It may cost you more to fold at this point, not counting airfare complications. Let us know how negotiations go with the owner. If not in what you think is your favor, I say cheerfully drop it and go on the hunt. You can then decide whether to be a repeat customer.

 

[spike.t]

Not to distract this topic but on the subject of missed shot penalties...I recently cancelled a guided turkey hunt that had in the contract, missed shots are $1500 penalty on a $1800 hunt. Not just wounding, which makes sense but a missed shot on a turkey. It was never stated until the final hunt contract was sent to me about 2 weeks before the hunt. I found it in the fine print. I texted with the guide to confirm it was correct...it was...I cancelled the hunt and walked away from my 50% deposit. That's inappropriate on a turkey hunt or other big game. A clean miss should not have that kind of penalty. So I'm seeing more of this lately but won't support it.

Yeah that is total bullshit as far as I am concerned....

 

[Scott CWO]

Did you not see the screenshot? He was quoted what he was quoted. The admin could have easily caught their mistake and corrected it and I’m sure the OP would have understood. Instead they gave a lazy answer that didn’t solve the issue. I’m sure the owner will iron it out. Nobody is saying $180 isn’t far too low. They’re just saying it hasn’t been handled properly. Also, I think it’s perfectly understandable for a company to raise their rates but again that is not the issue here.

Obviously the solution here is for the owner to either apologize profusely for the misquote, make his case to the hunters and ask for the full day rate or for him to honor the misquote and eat a little bit of dough.

I’ll also reiterate that if $180 per hunter for four hunters for one day is such a monumental issue then the outfitter really needs to reevaluate his business model.

I saw the screenshot. It was only in regards to the extra day. Technically, it is not part of the contract for the original package unless the contract was redone. Still, the outfitter will probably honor that conversation and probably should. My points are that $180 isn’t fair and coming on this site complaining about $240 of legitimate costs is ridiculous. $420 - $180 = $240.

 

[dchum]

No one is going to sabotage anything.

He was just asking if this is common practice and this turned into a whole thing.

He will have a fine trip. Hope you get a big Kudu.

 

[spike.t]

Bet the OP wishes he had kept his mouth shut......

 

[Dewald]

They’ve already made a commitment. Contracts are a commitment on both sides. Hunters should honor commitments as well as outfitters plus they have airfare, etc… already paid. There is no walking away at this point without losing way more than $420.

Scott, yes they have made a commitment. My point is that they will likely be able to find another outfitter that can accommodate their dates.

If I understand the OP correct, it is not the $240 pp difference that is bothering him as much as the principal of not honouring an agreement, and more specifically the clause that “prices remain subject to change”, and hence he is worried of getting a surprise on additional trophy fees.

I can understand that, as I really hate surprises when it comes to money. Thus my suggestion to rather walk away instead of going into the hunt with uncertainty.

I hope the problem gets resolved for both parties involved.

 

[Hogpatrol]

The OP asked if it was normal practice. Within my experience on nine trips, five a la carte, and four packages, it was not. One venue made me multiple offers I couldn't refuse. In fact I always felt I got more than what I paid and always returned with a good feeling. I do agree though, $240 is chicken feed.

 

[franzfmdavis]

They’ve already made a commitment. Contracts are a commitment on both sides. Hunters should honor commitments as well as outfitters plus they have airfare, etc… already paid. There is no walking away at this point without losing way more than $420.

If I had previously committed to a dollar amount that end up being higher than what an average outfitter charged for the same service, I would not expect to be able to unilaterally decide to reduce it.

Also, I think several people have suggested that the original daily rate for a hunter of $180 was miss quoted. It was not. The administrator stated that that was the correct rate when she quoted it to me, but that the rate has since gone up and that this is the first time they have done this.

I want to reiterate, since this thread is very long, that my concern is not with the fact that they need to increase their prices due to the variables that affect their costs, my issue with the fact that there was no communication regarding this possibility and that when we reserved the extra hunting day, there was no indication that this was a modifiable cost.

Communication is key to managing proper expectations on all sides. My primary concern is with the two hunters in our group who are on very strict budgets. Out of courtesy to them, I’m going to probably have to eat the additional cost of their extra nights so that the financial pressure doesn’t ruin their experience.

If the outfitter would have simply clearly communicated the possibilities at the outset, everyone could have gone into this information and made appropriate decisions.

The primary concern is about communication. The secondary concern is whether the party that failed to communicate should bear the burden of the poor communication. I had written this post to see if this was a common experience, but it seems that it is not.

 

[Scott CWO]

Scott, yes they have made a commitment. My point is that they will likely be able to find another outfitter that can accommodate their dates.

If I understand the OP correct, it is not the $240 pp difference that is bothering him as much as the principal of not honouring an agreement, and more specifically the clause that “prices remain subject to change”, and hence he is worried of getting a surprise on additional trophy fees.

I can understand that, as I really hate surprises when it comes to money. Thus my suggestion to rather walk away instead of going into the hunt with uncertainty.

I hope the problem gets resolved for both parties involved.

Perhaps I wasn’t clear. If they have signed a contract and paid a deposit, they likely cannot walk away without losing the deposit unless the outfitter just wants to get out of the situation.

I think the worries about the whole contract price being subject to change are unfounded. I haven’t ever heard of this outfitter or others who have increased a contracted daily rate even with a subject to change clause.

 

[BRICKBURN]

...........

The primary concern is about communication. The secondary concern is whether the party that failed to communicate should bear the burden of the poor communication. I had written this post to see if this was a common experience, but it seems that it is not.

Communication screw ups are more common than you think.
The best get on top of it and solve it right away.

Related topic not perfectly on point.
There is an entire thread here on AH attempting to help new hunters ask the "better" question to ensure that they get the information they are actually after.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/better-questions-to-ask-when-looking-for-a-hunt.23825/