Limpopo Buffalo

[Tex .416]

Hunting is something you don't know what the outcome will be.

Realistically, isn’t the success rate for a buff hunt about 99%+ for a shot opportunity?

 

[Red Leg]

Realistically, isn’t the success rate for a buff hunt about 99%+ for a shot opportunity?

I think you can compare it to deer hunting. If you hunt the Big Bend country on a good ranch, you will have a 80-90% chance of taking a great buck in four or five days of hunting. On a high fence game ranch in the Hill Country you can take the same or larger buck in an afternoon and a day. Depending on the time of year, on a ten-day hunt in a good area in an unfenced environment, I would say it is probably close to 90% for an opportunity at a quality bull. On a game farm, replicating that hunt, one would have the same success opportunity in however much time the client has available.

 

[ActionBob]

Hi guys,

What are the characteristics to look for to determine if they are/still young? The top one looks a bit older anyway, right?

At first glance I was in agreement, the top one looks a bit older. Look at the width of the bosses and the amount of soft tissue surrounding the bosses. Think about what will be left when the skull is boiled.

When I zoomed in and examined them closer (and I am no expert) I think they are likely the same age. Both on the young side but not uncommon for many operations in RSA.

 

[Altitude sickness]

A point I’ll make is not directly tied to the OP question or all the discussion since.

I am concerned that we are moving quickly towards another Buffalo morass. I applaud the Rigby award. I bought the first edition. And look forward to the second Rigby award. I would love to shoot a bull that would get a mention in the 2nd or 3rd edition. I’m concerned that soon any bull that has a full head of horn or isn’t 15 years old will be considered an inferior trophy .

The reality is a scrum cap or post breeding bull is pretty hard to come by. It is a worthy goal to take post breeding bulls, But not realistic for thousands of Buffalo hunters to expect a PH to find them a post breeding age bull.

And if we all went to that model. Buffalo would cost $100K to hunt because post breeding age bulls are so few.

I hope to someday find a 15 yr old or a 12 yr old scrum cap.

Please do not take this as a criticism to hunting old animals. I believe that is a worthy goal. But hopefully we don’t allow a few people that have shot hundreds of Buffalo. To now tell us not to shoot a 10 year old bull from a herd.

 

[Major Bonkers]

We seem to have gone slightly off-topic. My own thoughts are, firstly, that the great age of African safaris - as seen in Out of Africa, and read about in Horn of the Hunter - is over, and what is available nowadays is a simulacrum of what once was. It seems to me - and I have never done it - that one could pay an awful lot of money to get very close to the classic safari, without ever quite getting there.

(And would you want to? If you got trampled or gnawed, wouldn't you want the comfort of air evacuation, painkillers and antibiotics?)

I could buy myself the best of what is available nowadays - I'd have to liquidate some investments, incur a tax charge, and take the risk that everything goes to plan: but I also like Old Masters, cigars, and I have a hankering to take the family down the Nile. Decisions, decisions.

I have shot one buffalo, on a game farm in the Limpopo which I visit every year. We spent a week tracking the particular animal; there was a four hour follow-up through the mopani on a wounded animal after the initial shot (including a P-turn attempted ambush); and a final charge which came very close to flattening the PH. It was certainly one of the most exhilarating things that I have done in my life. When the lads arrived with the tractor and trailer, they sang in Shona as they winched the carcass aboard. The ladies and young 'uns came to the game larder to gawp at the carcass as it was skinned and dressed.

Most hunting, it seems to me, is what you make of it. As I say, I go back to the same game farm every year and am beginning to know everyone, remember their names (I'm terrible with names), ask after their families, joke with them, buy small carvings from them and bring small presents. The alternative is to fly in, shoot something out of a hide or the back of the bakkie as the animal goes to water, and bugger off again with your trophy, never to return.

That said, the one obvious disadvantage of a game farm is that their commercial imperative is to provide (and charge for) trophy animals: as Kevin Robertson says (in Africa's Most Dangerous), these are exactly the ones that ought to be left to breed. The market imperative is not there for scrum-cap animals, or worn horns. In no way do I criticise 30-06 Ken (the OP) and his PH for producing what the market wants: my own buffalo was a trophy - I can't tell you the width, because that is not what made the experience memorable. But, for example, in Scotland you would never be allowed to shoot the quality of animals that are offered up in South African game farms.

My final thought is, for all the criticism of such enclosed hunting, quite how large does an enclosure need to be to be 'free range'? The Kruger is fenced, for example. Does that make its inhabitants 'livestock'?

Perhaps the more important issue is hunting 30-06 Ken's buffalo ethically - putting the work in, getting tired and footsore, and making friends with and learning from the trackers - rather than quibbling about whether it is a more or less authentic experience than doing exactly the same thing somewhere else. I wish him well and am sure that he will have a super time (as long as he doesn't get flattened). Good luck and God speed to him.

 

[DWB]

I always think how tough it must be to be a PH to make all these many evaluations in a split second, and I guess mistakes happen more often than not.

I am a Proud South African, and have been blessed to have hunted a few buffalo (mainly cows) alone with just a tracker and I.

I have also had the privilege to selectively cull cow buffaloes on foot from a fancy breeding herd, and that was an EXTREMELY hard hunt/cull.

My experience is often a time you will only be able to photograph these kind of buffaloes if the gamefarm is extremely strict on not allowing any shooting from vehicles, however, once the boots hit the ground they turn into ninjas.

Yes, there are dodgy outfits, but I also pride myself in how I hunt, and I hunt for my enjoyment and am absolutely fine with going home empty handed, and yes, it also frustrates me when people constantly downplay the experiences we can have in SA. You will have your hands full with buffaloes that are hunted hard in a 500ha bushveld camp. It's not like these things are in a petting zoo..... Buffaloes aren't trained for the circus. I personally prefer the bush, yet there are buffaloes who prefer the open grasslands.

Old battle axes are what we all dream of! However this is not always as simple and easy.

Good luck and have fun!

PS Buffalo hunting is addictive!!!

 

[mark-hunter]

My final thought is, for all the criticism of such enclosed hunting, quite how large does an enclosure need to be to be 'free range'?

You have raised several good points.
Fenced property size, how big it is to be free range? Depends of personal view of a hunter, and probably of game hunted.
5000 hectares (12.000 acres) is for me, and above.
But again, it is all relative. Having 15 species on 5000 hectares, and 40 species on same property, is different.

How many free ranging, selfsustainable herds of different species can one area hold?

Also, we as non locals, overseas clients, what do we know? We can try to learn, and ask questions, and have our red flags on this and that.
But if outfitter has a self sustainable herds of animals, and in addition to this makes quiet restocking for actual put and take for additional trophy bulls (of any species) I admit, I really wouldn't be able to recognize the difference.

Then, there is a number of trophies taken every year, number of clients every year, which may give such a clue. For example back home, hunting area of my club is 5000 hectars, and managing 4 big game species, issuing about 120-130 tags per year (not all trophy), brown bear (1 or 2 tags), roe deer (30-40 tags), red deer (20 tish tags), and boar (the rest). Up to 130 tags per year, all classes from trophies to females, and all ages as per game management plan.

I am not sure how much African animals are more prolific and numerous per hectare of hunting grounds, but this number can be indication, of something going on low profile if numbers are seemingly too big on a limited area even if being of acceptable size. Too much species, too big number of hunters per year, would indicate put and take operation, regardless of size of property. How many clients go so deep in their research?

 

[Tex .416]

....

That said, the one obvious disadvantage of a game farm is that their commercial imperative is to provide (and charge for) trophy animals:....

Whether high fenced or a huge unfenced block, hunting is a business that must turn a profit in order to provide a living for outfitters and employees that depend on the hunting business.

As part of running a hunting business, herd management for the long run must be considered for the business to remain viable.

 

[wesheltonj]

You have raised several good points.
Fenced property size, how big it is to be free range? . . .

Home range size of Cape Buffalo

• Mass herds: Home ranges can be as large as 108,000 hectares
• Mature bull herds: Home ranges can be as small as 1,800 hectares
• Post-mature bulls: Home ranges can be between 17 and 400 hectares

 

[grand veneur]

We seem to have gone slightly off-topic. My own thoughts are, firstly, that the great age of African safaris - as seen in Out of Africa, and read about in Horn of the Hunter - is over, and what is available nowadays is a simulacrum of what once was. It seems to me - and I have never done it - that one could pay an awful lot of money to get very close to the classic safari, without ever quite getting there.

(And would you want to? If you got trampled or gnawed, wouldn't you want the comfort of air evacuation, painkillers and antibiotics?)

I could buy myself the best of what is available nowadays - I'd have to liquidate some investments, incur a tax charge, and take the risk that everything goes to plan: but I also like Old Masters, cigars, and I have a hankering to take the family down the Nile. Decisions, decisions.

I have shot one buffalo, on a game farm in the Limpopo which I visit every year. We spent a week tracking the particular animal; there was a four hour follow-up through the mopani on a wounded animal after the initial shot (including a P-turn attempted ambush); and a final charge which came very close to flattening the PH. It was certainly one of the most exhilarating things that I have done in my life. When the lads arrived with the tractor and trailer, they sang in Shona as they winched the carcass aboard. The ladies and young 'uns came to the game larder to gawp at the carcass as it was skinned and dressed.

Most hunting, it seems to me, is what you make of it. As I say, I go back to the same game farm every year and am beginning to know everyone, remember their names (I'm terrible with names), ask after their families, joke with them, buy small carvings from them and bring small presents. The alternative is to fly in, shoot something out of a hide or the back of the bakkie as the animal goes to water, and bugger off again with your trophy, never to return.

That said, the one obvious disadvantage of a game farm is that their commercial imperative is to provide (and charge for) trophy animals: as Kevin Robertson says (in Africa's Most Dangerous), these are exactly the ones that ought to be left to breed. The market imperative is not there for scrum-cap animals, or worn horns. In no way do I criticise 30-06 Ken (the OP) and his PH for producing what the market wants: my own buffalo was a trophy - I can't tell you the width, because that is not what made the experience memorable. But, for example, in Scotland you would never be allowed to shoot the quality of animals that are offered up in South African game farms.

My final thought is, for all the criticism of such enclosed hunting, quite how large does an enclosure need to be to be 'free range'? The Kruger is fenced, for example. Does that make its inhabitants 'livestock'?

Perhaps the more important issue is hunting 30-06 Ken's buffalo ethically - putting the work in, getting tired and footsore, and making friends with and learning from the trackers - rather than quibbling about whether it is a more or less authentic experience than doing exactly the same thing somewhere else. I wish him well and am sure that he will have a super time (as long as he doesn't get flattened). Good luck and God speed to him.

On point, very good, affects some of us, including me. Unfortunately, as you say, these times are over. Nevertheless, the current development of hunting in Africa, even if it is understandably realistic, make people like me a little bit sad.

 

[ActionBob]

The alternative is to fly in, shoot something out of a hide or the back of the bakkie as the animal goes to water, and bugger off again with your trophy, never to return.

Who does that???

I don't disagree with a lot if what you said... except I don't understand what you are saying in this part I quoted?

There are lots of alternatives to that.

On 10 hunts, one a full bag in Tanzania that came pretty close to the iconic safari many dream of, Mozambique leopard for 18 days, a 12 day Zimbabwe Elephant hunt. And the rest in RSA... I have never experienced the alternative you speak of, nor met someone who did that....

 

[WAB]

Who does that???

I don't disagree with a lot if what you said... except I don't understand what you are saying in this part I quoted?

There are lots of alternatives to that.

On 10 hunts, one a full bag in Tanzania that came pretty close to the iconic safari many dream of, Mozambique leopard for 18 days, a 12 day Zimbabwe Elephant hunt. And the rest in RSA... I have never experienced the alternative you speak of, nor met someone who did that....

Unfortunately people do, do that.