Limpopo Buffalo

[Tex .416]

Hunting is something you don't know what the outcome will be.

Realistically, isn’t the success rate for a buff hunt about 99%+ for a shot opportunity?

 

[Red Leg]

Realistically, isn’t the success rate for a buff hunt about 99%+ for a shot opportunity?

I think you can compare it to deer hunting. If you hunt the Big Bend country on a good ranch, you will have a 80-90% chance of taking a great buck in four or five days of hunting. On a high fence game ranch in the Hill Country you can take the same or larger buck in an afternoon and a day. Depending on the time of year, on a ten-day hunt in a good area in an unfenced environment, I would say it is probably close to 90% for an opportunity at a quality bull. On a game farm, replicating that hunt, one would have the same success opportunity in however much time the client has available.

 

[ActionBob]

Hi guys,

What are the characteristics to look for to determine if they are/still young? The top one looks a bit older anyway, right?

At first glance I was in agreement, the top one looks a bit older. Look at the width of the bosses and the amount of soft tissue surrounding the bosses. Think about what will be left when the skull is boiled.

When I zoomed in and examined them closer (and I am no expert) I think they are likely the same age. Both on the young side but not uncommon for many operations in RSA.

 

[Altitude sickness]

A point I’ll make is not directly tied to the OP question or all the discussion since.

I am concerned that we are moving quickly towards another Buffalo morass. I applaud the Rigby award. I bought the first edition. And look forward to the second Rigby award. I would love to shoot a bull that would get a mention in the 2nd or 3rd edition. I’m concerned that soon any bull that has a full head of horn or isn’t 15 years old will be considered an inferior trophy .

The reality is a scrum cap or post breeding bull is pretty hard to come by. It is a worthy goal to take post breeding bulls, But not realistic for thousands of Buffalo hunters to expect a PH to find them a post breeding age bull.

And if we all went to that model. Buffalo would cost $100K to hunt because post breeding age bulls are so few.

I hope to someday find a 15 yr old or a 12 yr old scrum cap.

Please do not take this as a criticism to hunting old animals. I believe that is a worthy goal. But hopefully we don’t allow a few people that have shot hundreds of Buffalo. To now tell us not to shoot a 10 year old bull from a herd.

 

[Major Bonkers]

We seem to have gone slightly off-topic. My own thoughts are, firstly, that the great age of African safaris - as seen in Out of Africa, and read about in Horn of the Hunter - is over, and what is available nowadays is a simulacrum of what once was. It seems to me - and I have never done it - that one could pay an awful lot of money to get very close to the classic safari, without ever quite getting there.

(And would you want to? If you got trampled or gnawed, wouldn't you want the comfort of air evacuation, painkillers and antibiotics?)

I could buy myself the best of what is available nowadays - I'd have to liquidate some investments, incur a tax charge, and take the risk that everything goes to plan: but I also like Old Masters, cigars, and I have a hankering to take the family down the Nile. Decisions, decisions.

I have shot one buffalo, on a game farm in the Limpopo which I visit every year. We spent a week tracking the particular animal; there was a four hour follow-up through the mopani on a wounded animal after the initial shot (including a P-turn attempted ambush); and a final charge which came very close to flattening the PH. It was certainly one of the most exhilarating things that I have done in my life. When the lads arrived with the tractor and trailer, they sang in Shona as they winched the carcass aboard. The ladies and young 'uns came to the game larder to gawp at the carcass as it was skinned and dressed.

Most hunting, it seems to me, is what you make of it. As I say, I go back to the same game farm every year and am beginning to know everyone, remember their names (I'm terrible with names), ask after their families, joke with them, buy small carvings from them and bring small presents. The alternative is to fly in, shoot something out of a hide or the back of the bakkie as the animal goes to water, and bugger off again with your trophy, never to return.

That said, the one obvious disadvantage of a game farm is that their commercial imperative is to provide (and charge for) trophy animals: as Kevin Robertson says (in Africa's Most Dangerous), these are exactly the ones that ought to be left to breed. The market imperative is not there for scrum-cap animals, or worn horns. In no way do I criticise 30-06 Ken (the OP) and his PH for producing what the market wants: my own buffalo was a trophy - I can't tell you the width, because that is not what made the experience memorable. But, for example, in Scotland you would never be allowed to shoot the quality of animals that are offered up in South African game farms.

My final thought is, for all the criticism of such enclosed hunting, quite how large does an enclosure need to be to be 'free range'? The Kruger is fenced, for example. Does that make its inhabitants 'livestock'?

Perhaps the more important issue is hunting 30-06 Ken's buffalo ethically - putting the work in, getting tired and footsore, and making friends with and learning from the trackers - rather than quibbling about whether it is a more or less authentic experience than doing exactly the same thing somewhere else. I wish him well and am sure that he will have a super time (as long as he doesn't get flattened). Good luck and God speed to him.

 

[DWB]

I always think how tough it must be to be a PH to make all these many evaluations in a split second, and I guess mistakes happen more often than not.

I am a Proud South African, and have been blessed to have hunted a few buffalo (mainly cows) alone with just a tracker and I.

I have also had the privilege to selectively cull cow buffaloes on foot from a fancy breeding herd, and that was an EXTREMELY hard hunt/cull.

My experience is often a time you will only be able to photograph these kind of buffaloes if the gamefarm is extremely strict on not allowing any shooting from vehicles, however, once the boots hit the ground they turn into ninjas.

Yes, there are dodgy outfits, but I also pride myself in how I hunt, and I hunt for my enjoyment and am absolutely fine with going home empty handed, and yes, it also frustrates me when people constantly downplay the experiences we can have in SA. You will have your hands full with buffaloes that are hunted hard in a 500ha bushveld camp. It's not like these things are in a petting zoo..... Buffaloes aren't trained for the circus. I personally prefer the bush, yet there are buffaloes who prefer the open grasslands.

Old battle axes are what we all dream of! However this is not always as simple and easy.

Good luck and have fun!

PS Buffalo hunting is addictive!!!

 

[mark-hunter]

My final thought is, for all the criticism of such enclosed hunting, quite how large does an enclosure need to be to be 'free range'?

You have raised several good points.
Fenced property size, how big it is to be free range? Depends of personal view of a hunter, and probably of game hunted.
5000 hectares (12.000 acres) is for me, and above.
But again, it is all relative. Having 15 species on 5000 hectares, and 40 species on same property, is different.

How many free ranging, selfsustainable herds of different species can one area hold?

Also, we as non locals, overseas clients, what do we know? We can try to learn, and ask questions, and have our red flags on this and that.
But if outfitter has a self sustainable herds of animals, and in addition to this makes quiet restocking for actual put and take for additional trophy bulls (of any species) I admit, I really wouldn't be able to recognize the difference.

Then, there is a number of trophies taken every year, number of clients every year, which may give such a clue. For example back home, hunting area of my club is 5000 hectars, and managing 4 big game species, issuing about 120-130 tags per year (not all trophy), brown bear (1 or 2 tags), roe deer (30-40 tags), red deer (20 tish tags), and boar (the rest). Up to 130 tags per year, all classes from trophies to females, and all ages as per game management plan.

I am not sure how much African animals are more prolific and numerous per hectare of hunting grounds, but this number can be indication, of something going on low profile if numbers are seemingly too big on a limited area even if being of acceptable size. Too much species, too big number of hunters per year, would indicate put and take operation, regardless of size of property. How many clients go so deep in their research?

 

[Tex .416]

....

That said, the one obvious disadvantage of a game farm is that their commercial imperative is to provide (and charge for) trophy animals:....

Whether high fenced or a huge unfenced block, hunting is a business that must turn a profit in order to provide a living for outfitters and employees that depend on the hunting business.

As part of running a hunting business, herd management for the long run must be considered for the business to remain viable.

 

[wesheltonj]

You have raised several good points.
Fenced property size, how big it is to be free range? . . .

Home range size of Cape Buffalo

• Mass herds: Home ranges can be as large as 108,000 hectares
• Mature bull herds: Home ranges can be as small as 1,800 hectares
• Post-mature bulls: Home ranges can be between 17 and 400 hectares

 

[grand veneur]

We seem to have gone slightly off-topic. My own thoughts are, firstly, that the great age of African safaris - as seen in Out of Africa, and read about in Horn of the Hunter - is over, and what is available nowadays is a simulacrum of what once was. It seems to me - and I have never done it - that one could pay an awful lot of money to get very close to the classic safari, without ever quite getting there.

(And would you want to? If you got trampled or gnawed, wouldn't you want the comfort of air evacuation, painkillers and antibiotics?)

I could buy myself the best of what is available nowadays - I'd have to liquidate some investments, incur a tax charge, and take the risk that everything goes to plan: but I also like Old Masters, cigars, and I have a hankering to take the family down the Nile. Decisions, decisions.

I have shot one buffalo, on a game farm in the Limpopo which I visit every year. We spent a week tracking the particular animal; there was a four hour follow-up through the mopani on a wounded animal after the initial shot (including a P-turn attempted ambush); and a final charge which came very close to flattening the PH. It was certainly one of the most exhilarating things that I have done in my life. When the lads arrived with the tractor and trailer, they sang in Shona as they winched the carcass aboard. The ladies and young 'uns came to the game larder to gawp at the carcass as it was skinned and dressed.

Most hunting, it seems to me, is what you make of it. As I say, I go back to the same game farm every year and am beginning to know everyone, remember their names (I'm terrible with names), ask after their families, joke with them, buy small carvings from them and bring small presents. The alternative is to fly in, shoot something out of a hide or the back of the bakkie as the animal goes to water, and bugger off again with your trophy, never to return.

That said, the one obvious disadvantage of a game farm is that their commercial imperative is to provide (and charge for) trophy animals: as Kevin Robertson says (in Africa's Most Dangerous), these are exactly the ones that ought to be left to breed. The market imperative is not there for scrum-cap animals, or worn horns. In no way do I criticise 30-06 Ken (the OP) and his PH for producing what the market wants: my own buffalo was a trophy - I can't tell you the width, because that is not what made the experience memorable. But, for example, in Scotland you would never be allowed to shoot the quality of animals that are offered up in South African game farms.

My final thought is, for all the criticism of such enclosed hunting, quite how large does an enclosure need to be to be 'free range'? The Kruger is fenced, for example. Does that make its inhabitants 'livestock'?

Perhaps the more important issue is hunting 30-06 Ken's buffalo ethically - putting the work in, getting tired and footsore, and making friends with and learning from the trackers - rather than quibbling about whether it is a more or less authentic experience than doing exactly the same thing somewhere else. I wish him well and am sure that he will have a super time (as long as he doesn't get flattened). Good luck and God speed to him.

On point, very good, affects some of us, including me. Unfortunately, as you say, these times are over. Nevertheless, the current development of hunting in Africa, even if it is understandably realistic, make people like me a little bit sad.

 

[ActionBob]

The alternative is to fly in, shoot something out of a hide or the back of the bakkie as the animal goes to water, and bugger off again with your trophy, never to return.

Who does that???

I don't disagree with a lot if what you said... except I don't understand what you are saying in this part I quoted?

There are lots of alternatives to that.

On 10 hunts, one a full bag in Tanzania that came pretty close to the iconic safari many dream of, Mozambique leopard for 18 days, a 12 day Zimbabwe Elephant hunt. And the rest in RSA... I have never experienced the alternative you speak of, nor met someone who did that....

 

[WAB]

Who does that???

I don't disagree with a lot if what you said... except I don't understand what you are saying in this part I quoted?

There are lots of alternatives to that.

On 10 hunts, one a full bag in Tanzania that came pretty close to the iconic safari many dream of, Mozambique leopard for 18 days, a 12 day Zimbabwe Elephant hunt. And the rest in RSA... I have never experienced the alternative you speak of, nor met someone who did that....

Unfortunately people do, do that.

 

[Red Leg]

Who does that???

I don't disagree with a lot if what you said... except I don't understand what you are saying in this part I quoted?

There are lots of alternatives to that.

On 10 hunts, one a full bag in Tanzania that came pretty close to the iconic safari many dream of, Mozambique leopard for 18 days, a 12 day Zimbabwe Elephant hunt. And the rest in RSA... I have never experienced the alternative you speak of, nor met someone who did that....

But neither did you ask or demand it. Obviously, this would not be under consideration on a full bag safari in Tanzania. But a game ranch? I absolutely believe every legitimate concession owner and game ranch operator is trying to provide a positive hunting experience. If he doesn't he will soon be in some other line of work. That said, I believe most fenced operations can tailor a buffalo hunt to the time-line of almost any client. If he or she wishes to replicate a tracking hunt, they can track buffalo for days or as long as it takes. If a client is in a hurry to collect a specimen for the wall, they can focus on or near an artificial food or water source. I should note some operators would not condone such a "hunt," but others would. After all, it would follow the pattern of many archery hunts for buffalo. In a sense, it follows the pattern of tented accommodations on a game ranch. The outfitter/owner replicates an East African hunting experience except with running water, flush toilets, on the grid electric lights and WIFI. They are also replicating a buffalo hunt of that era. I am not condemning any of it - I have paid money and experienced it. But depending upon the experience another client expects, some due diligence is normally in order.

 

[318AE]

My final thought is, for all the criticism of such enclosed hunting, quite how large does an enclosure need to be to be 'free range'? The Kruger is fenced, for example. Does that make its inhabitants 'livestock'?

Major Bonkers - I appreciate your thoughtful and well written response.

I’ve been fortunate enough to hunt buffalo in “fenced” areas in the RSA and elsewhere in “wild” areas (which I understand is the case with Red Leg and others as well). Fortunately, all good, memorable hunts. I’ve been to the RSA multiple times, would go back, and don’t consider myself a “RSA hater”.

While this thread has gone all over the place in the last ten pages, I don’t think the gist of the tension was about fencing or the size of the hunting area. If one were a purist and only hunted unfenced areas, you’d miss out on a lot of great quality, affordable hunting.

There is a difference between booking a hunt for a species of animal and “hunting” for the best one you can find (whether you consider that size, age etc) and booking a hunt for one specific beast, based on a photo showing it “live on the hoof”, which is often priced on a sliding scale by the inch in those cases. We don’t know that is the case with the OP, but its often the perception created by “live on the hoof” photos vs the more common photos of animals recently taken in the area etc.

For some of us, that starts to get blurry as to whether you are buying a hunt (an activity, an experience), or an outcome (a 45” trophy). We like to think either our skill or luck play a part in what ends up in the salt, and not just our pocketbook. It’s not cut and dry; trying to find that one single beast could be quite challenging, but it can also make it feel more like “livestock” as you put it. Ironic to the conversation here, that pay by the inch for a specific beast makes it easier for the well heeled jet set to land a huge trophy should they choose. I think the most affordable hunts are usually for an unspecified animal.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Agreed, I went on two archery buffalo hunts. I made it clear that I had zero interest in shooting one from a blind or over a water hole. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that for others)

I never came close to getting an archery shot on the first hunt. My wife trailed along the entire hunt. And said it was now her favorite hunt.

Second hunt, 2 yeas later. Same story. By day five we still had not been close to getting a bow shot.

Many stalks, wind, baboons, other animals. I let the PHs know I would rather stalk in close with a rifle than shoot one from a blind. Finally got to 25 yards and put one arrow straight the leg and he went approximately 80-100 yds and was soon bellowing. No rifle shots. Not even insurance. One broadhead

Both were on approximately 10k fenced acres in Limpopo and were great hunts.
Our 3 Buffalo in Zimbabwe were great hunts also. But I can’t say harder or better.

 

[375Fox]

A point I’ll make is not directly tied to the OP question or all the discussion since.

I am concerned that we are moving quickly towards another Buffalo morass. I applaud the Rigby award. I bought the first edition. And look forward to the second Rigby award. I would love to shoot a bull that would get a mention in the 2nd or 3rd edition. I’m concerned that soon any bull that has a full head of horn or isn’t 15 years old will be considered an inferior trophy .

The reality is a scrum cap or post breeding bull is pretty hard to come by. It is a worthy goal to take post breeding bulls, But not realistic for thousands of Buffalo hunters to expect a PH to find them a post breeding age bull.

And if we all went to that model. Buffalo would cost $100K to hunt because post breeding age bulls are so few.

I hope to someday find a 15 yr old or a 12 yr old scrum cap.

Please do not take this as a criticism to hunting old animals. I believe that is a worthy goal. But hopefully we don’t allow a few people that have shot hundreds of Buffalo. To now tell us not to shoot a 10 year old bull from a herd.

This is good post. A very well known operator in Zimbabwe recently had a competition to guess the age of their 23 top old buffalo this year. The average age of those top 23 was 11.4 years at end of competition. Looking for a 12+ year old buffalo is a very worthy goal but I think it gets overdone. Anything 9+ is a great buffalo to me and should be realistic in a decent area with sustainable quotas. However, I see a lot of 8 year old bulls get called 10 and 10 called 12. Being a scrum cap doesn’t necessarily mean old either. The buffalo by the OP though I don’t think anything over 8 likely not over 7 years.

 

[375Fox]

My final thought is, for all the criticism of such enclosed hunting, quite how large does an enclosure need to be to be 'free range'? The Kruger is fenced, for example. Does that make its inhabitants 'livestock'?

Perhaps the more important issue is hunting 30-06 Ken's buffalo ethically - putting the work in, getting tired and footsore, and making friends with and learning from the trackers - rather than quibbling about whether it is a more or less authentic experience than doing exactly the same thing somewhere else. I wish him well and am sure that he will have a super time (as long as he doesn't get flattened). Good luck and God speed to him.

Home range size of Cape Buffalo

• Mass herds: Home ranges can be as large as 108,000 hectares
• Mature bull herds: Home ranges can be as small as 1,800 hectares
• Post-mature bulls: Home ranges can be between 17 and 400 hectares

My criticism has always been very specific. It’s how the fence is used not the fence itself. If the fence is used to create natural conditions inside and protect it then I think it’s a good thing. If the fence is used to stock and hold what is inside then I think it deserves criticism. If a buffalo bull was stocked and has an identification chip from the breeding facility, receives supplemental feed, has no cows, and is protected from predators then I think some arguments could be made there are similarities to livestock. It’s not a trophy that would have value to me. I really don’t care if a person wants to hunt that bull but they should know what it is and it should be marketed honestly.

Kruger is fenced only on its eastern boundary in South Africa. It is not fenced anywhere else. Game generally moves freely as it always has. If a lion pushes buffalo it will cover an area significantly larger than 400 hectares or 1800 hectares. When water dries up they will move miles. Unfenced animals move over vast areas because conditions force them to. A buffalo hunt on a 10,000 acre farm from a self sustaining herd managed on a quota can be a good hunt. But there are significant differences between that buffalo and a free range buffalo caused by the fence and other human improvements to the area. Maybe they can stay in a 17 hectare area inside a game farm but that is not a possibility in a wild area under natural conditions.

 

[375Fox]

My criticism has always been very specific. It’s how the fence is used not the fence itself. If the fence is used to create natural conditions inside and protect it then I think it’s a good thing. If the fence is used to stock and hold what is inside then I think it deserves criticism. If a buffalo bull was stocked and has an identification chip from the breeding facility, receives supplemental feed, has no cows, and is protected from predators then I think some arguments could be made there are similarities to livestock. It’s not a trophy that would have value to me. I really don’t care if a person wants to hunt that bull but they should know what it is and it should be marketed honestly.

Kruger is fenced only on its eastern boundary in South Africa. It is not fenced anywhere else. Game generally moves freely as it always has. If a lion pushes buffalo it will cover an area significantly larger than 400 hectares or 1800 hectares. When water dries up they will move miles. Unfenced animals move over vast areas because conditions force them to. A buffalo hunt on a 10,000 acre farm from a self sustaining herd managed on a quota can be a good hunt. But there are significant differences between that buffalo and a free range buffalo caused by the fence and other human improvements to the area. Maybe they can stay in a 17 hectare area inside a game farm but that is not a possibility in a wild area under natural conditions.

Correction: Western boundary not eastern

 

[jacques smith]

To: 30-06 Ken. Welcome to AH

 

[mark-hunter]

For some of us, that starts to get blurry as to whether you are buying a hunt (an activity, an experience), or an outcome (a 45” trophy)

Excellent differentiation of motives!