Mannlicher Schönauer 'Prewar' M1900, M1903, M1905, M1908, M1910, M1924, 'M1925' or 'High Velocity'

[Brian Rothhammer]

Here's a Model 1950 in 7X64 offered on GunsAmerica:

https://www.gunsamerica.com/9357829...7x64-Model-1950-with-factory-Khales-Scope.htm

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

This article, on Revivalier, has an image of a Mannlicher Schönauer GK in 7X64 and information regarding the cartridge.

http://revivaler.com/the-7x64-brenneke/

I've been going through some posts on NitroExpressForums and , per Kuduae (Saxon forester Axel Eichendorff), the GK designates "gerader kolben", or 'straight (buttstock)'. From reading other posts it seems the GK was available on more than one model. The models were 1950, 1952, ... whereas the letter designations referred to stock configuration to wit:

GK - gerader kolben, or 'straight stock'
MC - Monte Carlo
MCA - Monte Carlo Amerikanisch (per Kuduae - some other sources have it as 'Monte Carlo All - purpose')
NO - ? (may mean 'normal?)

Again, I am more familiar with the 'prewar' models which all had identical 'buttstocks' but were available in the well known stutzen (stocked to muzzle) and in 'half stock' of various lengths, including my personal favorite, the 'take down model'. Kuduae and others 'on the continent' have indicated that the 7X64 is among the most commonly encountered of the 1950 and 1952 MS models there, though it seems to be quite scarce in the U.S..

From the 1939 Stoeger:

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Fed the correct ammo, I don't see how they could ever jam with that rotary mag.

There are several options to scope mount the Mannlichers, mostly without the ability to use iron sights via "see through tunnel." My favorite is the Redfield style, now made as a reproduction. Steve

Indeed, the pre - M1924 MS has the smoothest action and magazine feed of any firearm you'll ever handle provided it is fed ammunition of the proper profile, particularly overall length and shape of bullet tip. With the addition of the 'guide ring' to the Schoenauer magazine that occurred with the M1924, such careful feeding is not as crucial.

Scope mounts, you say? Here's more fun stuff from the '39 Stoeger:

First a 'claw mount' for Mousies. Note the 'see through' rings. My M1910 Takedown MS wears a Gerard B on claw mounts.

This is the sweet little unit that goes on the back of n MS bolt.

 

[Longwalker]

that's a lot of information to study, thanks for the guidance! It looks like mine is likely a NO model since the chambering, bolt, and stock style

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

that's a lot of information to study, thanks for the guidance!

All part of the fun!

 

[Von Dutch]

Thanks for all the interesting and informative information! I learned a lot. I recently purchased a nice M-S 7x64 full stock carbine that I was told was built in 1968. I have not been able to find a specific reference to the model number or name. I'd like to learn more about it. From the picture can you tell me what model it is? It is a very smooth, very precise rifle. The first group I shot with it was surprisingly small especially since the scope has no magnification, it is a true 1X. This is going to be a fun rifle to use near home on local game.
View attachment 262731

Thought you might like to see my 1959 GK in 7x64. Hendoldt scope which is the forerunner of the Ziess Z series and beautifully clear. This rifle shoots 170gr Norma Vulcans to 0.8" with VV N560 powder.
Regards.
Mike

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Thought you might like to see my 1959 GK in 7x64. Hendoldt scope which is the forerunner of the Ziess Z series and beautifully clear. This rifle shoots 170gr Norma Vulcans to 0.8" with VV N560 powder.
Regards.
Mike

View attachment 294071

Very nice.

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi Brian,

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
Really great post!

Having had a 1964 Mannlicher-Schoenauer GK 60 cm barrel lenght I agree about their quality. It was, perhaps,
the best factory made rifle I had. Period.
It came with a Hensoldt Diavari 1,5-6x36, FANTASTIC scope!!! In a very special Gastinne-Renette lateral mount. A piece of ingeniering and art the mount itself, a 90 degree rotary type.
I sold the rifle, after two red deer hunted with it, because I received "an offer I cannot refuse", really important. Anyway, I miss the rifle...
One detail I want to describe is a difference in the design and machining of the primary extraction part:
Pre-war M-S: is machined as a part inside the action front bridge.
Post-war M-S: is machined in an extension of the barrel.
A minor diference but an important one if the barrel in a post-war must be replaced. Not easy to do.....

Best!

CF

 

[Hummer]

Was looking around and found this site. I have had the pleasure of owning a 1905 in 9X56 for over 40 years and have made my own brass and been loading for it that long.

As well a good friend had a 1910 in 8X60 and I loaded ammo for him since 1983 and I made brass for it. He passed last year and his family has apparently decided to dump the rifle so it is floating around Madison, Va area (I think) looking for a home. I have no more contact with the family but I was very impressed with the quality of the chambering on that rifle. His was chambered very tight and the brass I made for him should last about 100 reloads. There was about a hundred rounds with the rifle last I saw it about 15 months back.

I miss my friend. I am thinking about selling my 1905. Anybody got any idea of what they go for in the states now? It has a 9XX serial so I figure it was made in 1905/6 time frame.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Hi Brian,

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

One detail I want to describe is a difference in the design and machining of the primary extraction part:
Pre-war M-S: is machined as a part inside the action front bridge.
Post-war M-S: is machined in an extension of the barrel.
A minor diference but an important one if the barrel in a post-war must be replaced. Not easy to do.....

Best!

CF

That's very interesting about the difference between 'prewar' and 'postwar' barrels. I did not know that and, as you say. that would be rather important information for anyone replacing a barrel on the latter type.

 

[Hummer]

Actually if you follow the right cleaning principle you should be able to get over 10,000 rounds from a rifle barrel.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

As well a good friend had a 1910 in 8X60 and I loaded ammo for him since 1983 and I made brass for it... I was very impressed with the quality of the chambering on that rifle. His was chambered very tight and the brass I made for him should last about 100 reloads. There was about a hundred rounds with the rifle last I saw it about 15 months back.

I miss my friend. I am thinking about selling my 1905. Anybody got any idea of what they go for in the states now? It has a 9XX serial so I figure it was made in 1905/6 time frame.

The chambering of 8X60 is not original for an M1910. If it is an M1910 it has been rebored, as all M1910 MS were originally chambered for their own proprietary 9.5X57 (.375 Nitro Express Rimless) cartridge.

The 8X60 was, however, offered on the post - M1924 MS with its longer action and magazine. Stoeger listed them as one of the 'High Velocity' offerings as in this 1939 catalog image:

If you're sure you want to sell your M1905, eager buyers can likely be found on the 'site **NOT**PERMITTED**.com : http://forums.**NOT**PERMITTED**.com/ubbthreads.php
Is it a rifle or stutzen (full stocked carbine)? Regardless, if in excellent condition and original it should definitely bring north of $1000 USD (unless you'd rather let me have it for 'peanuts' - I'd give it a good home).

To determine when your MS was proofed, disassemble (with proper thin bladed drivers) and look for something like this:

The 411.08 on this example indicates the 411th firearm proofed at the Vienna proof house (Npv) for the year 1908. On the barrel, 4143 is the Steyr serial number, 3001 is a proof house registry number and C6.5 shows it to be an M1903 (6.5X54).

 

[Hummer]

I have previously reloaded 250 gr bullets for my 9X56 M1905 Carbine but am now thinking about trying some Sierra 180 gr. jacketed soft point flat nose (made for 38 Special and 357 Mag handguns. Was looking around and found where one person had tried 158 gr. pistol bullets but had keyholes in target. This may be a base deformation issue which I have run into before with 158 gr. 357 Mag fired from rifle and I changed propellants and went from 5 inches at 200 yards to 15 inch group at 100 yards.

I figure it would make for a medium recoil rifle and Quick Load indicates about 2100 fps load range for the 20" barrel so thought I would try and find my empty brass I made up years ago and shoot it some more.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

I ... am now thinking about trying some Sierra 180 gr. jacketed soft point flat nose (made for 38 Special and 357 Mag handguns. Was looking around and found where one person had tried 158 gr. pistol bullets... .

You may encounter feeding issues with the Schoenauer magazine if the projectiles are shorter and / or narrower toward the bullet tip than the original DWM491E (see third post on this thread).

That wouldn't prevent you from using them entirely, it would just reduce your capacity to one or two rounds in the mag (a third may jam) and one in the chamber, if desired.

 

[Hummer]

Interesting. Started making up 30 more cases from LC 30.06 match cases yesterday. I have t shoulders rolled back and the necks opened up and I need to make another expander to get the inside neck diameter to where it only gives a .002" grip on the bullet.

After that I trim them back to 56MM case length. Will advise how they feed.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

After that I trim them back to 56MM case length. Will advise how they feed.

Sounds good.

You may wish to load just five of the projectiles, then try them in your magazine. If they jam, try loading a few more with the projectiles further forward (longer cartridge). On this image you can see, underlined, the area where you'll need enough width to encounter the machined area of the magazine that guides the bullet tip.

For the smoothest function of the Schoenauer magazine one should use the exact round nosed profile of the original which cradles perfectly between the magazine housing and rotor. You'll need to engage at least some of the underlined area in order to function without jamming.

Once you've got it worked out, you may wish to acquire some 'strippers'. With them, loading five rounds to the Schoenauer magazine takes only a light push of the thumb as with a Mauser.

To empty the spool, use the handy little magazine release button:

With proper fitting cartridges, they'll fly right out. With practice, you'll be able to catch them.

 

[ajez]

Hello,
I´m Andreas from Sweden and this is my latest rifle!
A Steyr Mannlicher-Schönauer m1910 (wood takedown) in 6,5x55. Started its life as a 9,5 caliber (found those numbers at the bolt and in the magazine).

The rifle gots proof marks from Austria and Great Britain.
Interested in any kind of facts, history or knowledge of this rifles!

Grateful for help!

With regards, Andreas

 

[7x57Joe]

Congratulations Andreas you have a very fine rifle and welcome to the forum. As you already know, it started it's life as a 9.5x57 or 375 Rimless NE as the English called it and was the largest bore made in the earlier M-S before 1924. Does it feed well from the magazine?

 

[ajez]

Hi,
The rifle feeds round nose 156-160gr cartriges well (col 76,5mm). If I use 140 gr spitzer bullets I can just load two rounds in the magazine.
/Andreas

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Hello,
I´m Andreas from Sweden and this is my latest rifle!
A Steyr Mannlicher-Schönauer m1910 (wood takedown) in 6,5x55. Started its life as a 9,5 caliber (found those numbers at the bolt and in the magazine).

The rifle gots proof marks from Austria and Great Britain.
Interested in any kind of facts, history or knowledge of this rifles!

Grateful for help!

With regards, Andreas

She's a beauty!

I presume you've read the posts and articles on this thread. Other valuable info can be found elsewhere on this 'site, at another 'site with a dedicated Mannlicher forum ( http://forums.**NOT**PERMITTED**.com/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=mannlicher ), and by perusing the 'net.

There are 'pros and cons' about your M1910 Takedown. The 'special folding peep sight' is a very cool and Steyr original option. The buttpad is unfortunate as it omits the original steel plate with trap and also changes the aesthetic.

Special folding peep sight ....... $12.00 - Twelve 1939 dollars would be $222.83 USD in 2020.

Though a change from 9.5X57 to 6.5X55 adversely affects the value of your MS to collectors, it could be viewed as an advantage to you if 6.5X55 'Swede' cartridges happen to be readily available in a place such as Sweden. Midway USA offers it presently as low as $0.85 USD per cartridge on this side of the Atlantic. The 9.5X57 is almost entirely a handloading proposition and an expensive one.
Here is an article about the 6.5X55: https://gundigest.com/rifles/ar-15/the-sweet-swede-ode-to-the-6-5x55

Various commercially available 6.5X55


You mentioned the British proofs. Many of the M1910 were sold to the British trade, and it seems nearly all of the takedown models may have been. My cased M1910 Takedown Model (with folding peep sight) was purchased second hand by my grandfather in Ceylon circa 1932. It also bears British proofs and is stamped '9.5 M/M EX ' on one line and 'Cordite 43 - 270 MAX' below which indicates a 9.5 mm 'express' cartridge loaded with a maximum 43 grains of extruded Cordite pushing a 270 grain bullet. All images that I have seen of M1910 takedowns show them to be stamped in the same manner. If yours is stamped such it was British proofed for the 9.5X57 / .375 Nitro Express Rimless. Could you provide close images of your proof marks and stampings?

From the 1939 Stoeger:

Regardless, what you have is considered by many to be among the finest bolt action sporting rifles ever produced.

Enjoy!