Merkel 140 vs. Blaser S2

[BeeMaa]

Using an automatic safety firearm is akin to driving a Jeep with a standard transmission. As soon as you close the door, you drop the clutch to the floor and turn the key. It's natural because it's the way you have always started that Jeep...or handled that rifle in this case.

I've owned 2 shotguns with automatic safeties and it took me about a box of ammo to sort out the muscle memory at the clays range. Any hunter worth his salt will be putting in more than 25 shots at the practice range. Do your homework on whichever rifle you are taking and you will be rewarded with good results.

Blaser S2, but then again those who know me...already knew that. The auto safety is a non-issue and there are too many advantages of the S2 over the M140 to be denied.

 

[CAustin]

If you had to choose between these two double rifles, both German DRs, and being the same caliber, which one would you pick and why, Merkel 140 or Blaser S2?


I am all ears.

I own a 140 in 470 NE and have fired a 500 NE Blaser. I like them both and I would say that the Blaser was a working man’s rifle and not very attractive. My Merkel is a much better looking firearm and accurate but the Blaser was accurate too. I would urge you to shoulder both models repeatedly to determine which feels the most comfortable. Length of pull is critical. Articulated triggers are a plus as are ejectors but neither are a must have.

 

[Theleatherman]

@Red Leg thanks for sharing your knowledge. As I see that you are very knowledgeable on the subject, let me ask you a few questions about the rifle.

Do you know if blaser made any of these rifles with ejectors?

How much does the rifle weigh with the 375 barrels?
Thanks in advance.

 

[mdwest]

The "automatic safety" observation is one of the most common criticisms of the rifle. For me this is a non issue, but for others it could be one. I primarily hunt with SxS and OU shotguns.

This criticism is the one I can’t wrap my head around…

You’d think that anyone willing to pay the price for a double rifle had likely been around the block a time or two with nicer quality double shotguns..

While not common on competitive o/u shotguns.. an auto safety is extremely common on double field guns…

Guys paying several thousand dollars for a fine o/u shotgun that they take to the field and must make quick, close range shots several times a day with don’t mind or find it encumbering to have to snap the safety off as they raise the gun to shoot…

But folks think it’s encumbering on a double rifle? Or that it makes a difference on a DG hunt?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

This criticism is the one I can’t wrap my head around…

You’d think that anyone willing to pay the price for a double rifle had likely been around the block a time or two with nicer quality double shotguns..

While not common on competitive o/u shotguns.. an auto safety is extremely common on double field guns…

Guys paying several thousand dollars for a fine o/u shotgun that they take to the field and must make quick, close range shots several times a day with don’t mind or find it encumbering to have to snap the safety off as they raise the gun to shoot…

But folks think it’s encumbering on a double rifle? Or that it makes a difference on a DG hunt?

I would imagine it’s the DG aspect. It is for me anyway

 

[mdwest]

I would imagine it’s the DG aspect. It is for me anyway

I hear you.. but.. how is it really any different than a bolt action for DG in that regard?

I load my M70 or M98. I put it on safe.. when I am ready to shoot I take the safety off... when I don't need to shoot anymore I put the safety back on..

with the S2 the gun is safe automatically.. when it goes onto sticks, I take the safety off.. if I need to shoot a second time rapidly, I shoot.. if not, I put the safety back on... If I need to reload because we're now going after a wounded buff, I open the gun, put an additional round(s) in the rifle, close the action, take the safety off, and proceed just like I would with a bolt gun..

Maybe there is something Im missing.. but... having shot thousands upon thousands of rounds at non dangerous clays, and non dangerous birds with auto safe shotguns... needing to put a gun into action very quickly and use it at relatively close ranges (10-40 yards)... and an auto safety never being a problem... Im having a hard time wrapping my head around why an S2 safety is an issue..

Granted a orange piece of clay isn't going to gore me if I screw up... But.. taking a safety on/off is really a matter of practice and nothing more (something anyone planning a DG hunt should be doing diligently regardless of the chosen weapon system)..

I'd really love to see any actual study that has been conducted showing where an auto safety has caused an incident on a DG hunt.. although I am sure it doesn't exist... Ive scoured the interwebs looking for articles, hunt reports, etc where someone claims to have used an S2 or any other gun with an auto safety on a DG hunt and it caused a problem.. but haven't been able to find a single reference that appears real or validated.. What is easy to find is people talking about what could happen (theory) vs anything that actually ever has happened..

 

[RTG]

This criticism is the one I can’t wrap my head around…

You’d think that anyone willing to pay the price for a double rifle had likely been around the block a time or two with nicer quality double shotguns..

While not common on competitive o/u shotguns.. an auto safety is extremely common on double field guns…

Guys paying several thousand dollars for a fine o/u shotgun that they take to the field and must make quick, close range shots several times a day with don’t mind or find it encumbering to have to snap the safety off as they raise the gun to shoot…

But folks think it’s encumbering on a double rifle? Or that it makes a difference on a DG hunt?

It's about familiarity. I believe in instinctive shooting. I have spent countless hours in the field with sxs shotguns that have no automatic safety. Countless thousands of shells fired for trap, skeet and sporting clay's with no automatic safety. Suddenly the safety works by itself. It's an adjustment that requires a higher level of training than if I stick with a manual safety. I will perform faster, better and with more confidence if the safety works for me, instead of me working for the safety.

That is my criticism. To me, it's very understandable. Individual results may vary. Past results are not indicative of future returns. Ask your doctor if it's right for you.

But that rant aside, I'm still tempted by the Blaser S2. Its other qualities may make the extra training worth while.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I hear you.. but.. how is it really any different than a bolt action for DG in that regard?

I load my M70 or M98. I put it on safe.. when I am ready to shoot I take the safety off... when I don't need to shoot anymore I put the safety back on..

with the S2 the gun is safe automatically.. when it goes onto sticks, I take the safety off.. if I need to shoot a second time rapidly, I shoot.. if not, I put the safety back on... If I need to reload because we're now going after a wounded buff, I open the gun, put an additional round(s) in the rifle, close the action, take the safety off, and proceed just like I would with a bolt gun..

Maybe there is something Im missing.. but... having shot thousands upon thousands of rounds at non dangerous clays, and non dangerous birds with auto safe shotguns... needing to put a gun into action very quickly and use it at relatively close ranges (10-40 yards)... and an auto safety never being a problem... Im having a hard time wrapping my head around why an S2 safety is an issue..

Granted a orange piece of clay isn't going to gore me if I screw up... But.. taking a safety on/off is really a matter of practice and nothing more (something anyone planning a DG hunt should be doing diligently regardless of the chosen weapon system)..

I'd really love to see any actual study that has been conducted showing where an auto safety has caused an incident on a DG hunt.. although I am sure it doesn't exist... Ive scoured the interwebs looking for articles, hunt reports, etc where someone claims to have used an S2 or any other gun with an auto safety on a DG hunt and it caused a problem.. but haven't been able to find a single reference that appears real or validated.. What is easy to find is people talking about what could happen (theory) vs anything that actually ever has happened..

It sounds like you probably wouldn’t have a problem.

I still maintain that an automatic safety on a DG rifle is a unnecessary and dangerous waste of time.

Also, the safety doesn’t reset on a bolt action each time you reload. There are instances where people have barely had time to chamber another round in a bolt gun in order to stop a charge let alone time to operate a safety. I think that applies to doubles as well. Besides having an almost instantaneous follow up shot I think that MAY be one of the reasons that one of the most famous ivory hunters ever was not a fan of big bore bolt actions for that line of work.

 

[Red Leg]

Safety (and trigger) function may indeed be an issue for some. I absolutely get it. It is not an issue for me. I own a number of doubles (significantly more guns than rifles) and have owned many others. Some have single triggers, some have double triggers. Some have auto safeties, some do not. Some have ejectors and some do not. A couple of pigeon guns have no safeties at all. I shoot them all regularly. I would have to look down to tell you which mechanism was in my hand. I slip into the manual of arms for that gun when it comes off the rack.

I would simply urge anyone to get a gun or rifle that seems best for their needs. For me, ergonomics, accuracy and utility trump everything else. The S2 offers unique accuracy, superb ergonomics, and the utility of multiple calibers like a R8 and target engagement utility to the MPBR of a given caliber.

It is not important to me in the least that anyone should buy a S2. I am not a stock holder. But, to my mind, the rifle is out of production because it received a lot of critically unfair press. Most of that criticism revolved around the auto de-cock feature (yes, many also did not like its non-traditional looks). I personally think that is a silly deal breaker, but if it is a significant enough issue that someone wants to pay more for a less well made, less accurate, and less capable rifle, then by all means do so. It will at least be traditionally less of a rifle.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I hear you.. but.. how is it really any different than a bolt action for DG in that regard?

I load my M70 or M98. I put it on safe.. when I am ready to shoot I take the safety off... when I don't need to shoot anymore I put the safety back on..

with the S2 the gun is safe automatically.. when it goes onto sticks, I take the safety off.. if I need to shoot a second time rapidly, I shoot.. if not, I put the safety back on... If I need to reload because we're now going after a wounded buff, I open the gun, put an additional round(s) in the rifle, close the action, take the safety off, and proceed just like I would with a bolt gun..

Maybe there is something Im missing.. but... having shot thousands upon thousands of rounds at non dangerous clays, and non dangerous birds with auto safe shotguns... needing to put a gun into action very quickly and use it at relatively close ranges (10-40 yards)... and an auto safety never being a problem... Im having a hard time wrapping my head around why an S2 safety is an issue..

Granted a orange piece of clay isn't going to gore me if I screw up... But.. taking a safety on/off is really a matter of practice and nothing more (something anyone planning a DG hunt should be doing diligently regardless of the chosen weapon system)..

I'd really love to see any actual study that has been conducted showing where an auto safety has caused an incident on a DG hunt.. although I am sure it doesn't exist... Ive scoured the interwebs looking for articles, hunt reports, etc where someone claims to have used an S2 or any other gun with an auto safety on a DG hunt and it caused a problem.. but haven't been able to find a single reference that appears real or validated.. What is easy to find is people talking about what could happen (theory) vs anything that actually ever has happened..

One more thing to think about in comparing your shotguns to the S2 is how much travel do your safeties have and how much pressure do you have to exert to disengage them in comparison to the S2? And how would that translate in a high stress situation? Kind of like someone short stroking a bolt action and the issues that arise from that

 

[wesheltonj]

I don’t own a double rifle, but do shotgun and it has extractors. Ejectors are a must, that would be my requirement for a purchase.

 

[Inline6]

Of all the double rifles I have handled, the S2 felt and pointed the most natural. Now all the ones I have handled were off the rack, not custom fit. If I were to buy one it would be the S2, unfortunately for myself my accuracy OCD will not allow me to walk down that road.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

One more thing to think about in comparing your shotguns to the S2 is how much travel do your safeties have and how much pressure do you have to exert to disengage them in comparison to the S2? And how would that translate in a high stress situation? Kind of like someone short stroking a bolt action and the issues that arise from that

I guess the only logically “full proof” approach when it comes to familiarity would ideally be to have a set of shotgun barrels for your DR no matter the make.

 

[steve white]

In a perfect world, all firearms would have the same safety configuration, length of pull, drop, cast and trigger configuration. Then habit would be habit. But with a hodgepodge of differing firearms, double triggers, etc. it might do well to skip the auto safety for DG? Wonder if it could be disconnected on the S2?

BTW, I have missed the odd bird when switching guns due to such considerations.

 

[uplander01]

I wouldn't try and buy a double and expect much at the stated 5k price level. The merkel is overrated, I know in my little circle of rifle nuts, 1 cracked action body, that should never, never, never, happen. And on one that I owned, (i've owned 2 merkel 140's) the lead they put in the butt stock to balance the rifle came loose and almost through the recoil pad while I was at the range testing loads. I have no experience with the Blaser S2, there stuff always works. I could be spoiled, english doubles seem to be the way to go, and if you are patient sooner or later you aught to be able to get something for around 10k

 

[uplander01]

there was someone on here selling a K-gun that seemed really reasonable,....I think it was a field proven rifle. Never owned one, but once again, thats a brand that seems reliable.

 

[Rare Breed]

I don’t own a double rifle, but do shotgun and it has extractors. Ejectors are a must, that would be my requirement for a purchase.

I’ve had both extractors and ejectors on my DRs. From my experience neither would be a deal breaker for me if the right gun came along

 

[BeeMaa]

@Theleatherman - take a look at this one in the classifieds. Have to ask @One Day... if it's still available.

https://www.africahunting.com/threa...complete-package-for-sale-–-save-7-000.70887/

 

[mikecatt13]

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It sounds like you probably wouldn’t have a problem.

I still maintain that an automatic safety on a DG rifle is a unnecessary and dangerous waste of time.

Also, the safety doesn’t reset on a bolt action each time you reload. There are instances where people have barely had time to chamber another round in a bolt gun in order to stop a charge let alone time to operate a safety. I think that applies to doubles as well. Besides having an almost instantaneous follow up shot I think that MAY be one of the reasons that one of the most famous ivory hunters ever was not a fan of big bore bolt actions for that line of work.

Not to get on too much of a tengent but heres my take on the automatic safety in 2 simple, yet blunt, points

1) it takes NO more time, not even small fractions of a second its disengaged on the way to the shoulder.

2) if someone isnt willing to put in the time/repetitions for a safety catch to be legitimately 2nd nature, their shooting isnt going to be very good under pressure. Whether its an automatic safety or one of a hundred other factors, they are I'll prepared for dangerous game and are increasing the odds their PH is going to have to do some serious work. An automatic safety is the least of their worries, and might actually increase the safety of the situation. Ex: reload after the initial shot and forget to turn said non-automatic safety back one (arguably easier than forgetting to disengage on the way to the shoulder). Now they have a very unsafe rifle directly behind at least one person if not more, and likely moving at an increased rate of speed where a trip and fall is more likely.

In fact, while typing this all out I believe I've actually concluded that the type of person that cant remember to disengage an automatic safety before firing is actually the type of person that NEEDS an automatic safety most...

 

[steve white]

Just took a first look at the S2--not THAT untraditional, and some on GunsInternational were engraved out the wazoo.