Merkel 140 vs. Blaser S2

[Wishfulthinker580]

Not to get on too much of a tengent but heres my take on the automatic safety in 2 simple, yet blunt, points

1) it takes NO more time, not even small fractions of a second its disengaged on the way to the shoulder.

2) if someone isnt willing to put in the time/repetitions for a safety catch to be legitimately 2nd nature, their shooting isnt going to be very good under pressure. Whether its an automatic safety or one of a hundred other factors, they are I'll prepared for dangerous game and are increasing the odds their PH is going to have to do some serious work. An automatic safety is the least of their worries, and might actually increase the safety of the situation. Ex: reload after the initial shot and forget to turn said non-automatic safety back one (arguably easier than forgetting to disengage on the way to the shoulder). Now they have a very unsafe rifle directly behind at least one person if not more, and likely moving at an increased rate of speed where a trip and fall is more likely.

In fact, while typing this all out I believe I've actually concluded that the type of person that cant remember to disengage an automatic safety before firing is actually the type of person that NEEDS an automatic safety most...

It might or might not take more time but it is undeniably one more step (unnecessary IMO) to perform. I’m not saying that attaining that familiarity can’t be done but I guess the big question is why deal with it in the first place?

Should bolt guns have automatic safeties?

Arguably your reasoning in favor of an automatic safety is just as subjective as my argument against it although I think mine has more merit. I think the fact that automatic safeties are the exception rather than the rule proves that.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. Or not. That’s fine too.

 

[Longwalker]

I have a half dozen various double shotguns. Some have auto safeties, some don’t. I can’t tell you without looking, which safety type each gun is equipped with. It is completely automatic to me to thumb the safety “on” when closing the gun, and “off” while raising it to shoot. I certainly wouldn’t mind owning a Blaser double rifle, but I own a Merkel and like it too.

 

[mikecatt13]

It might or might not take more time but it is undeniably one more step (unnecessary IMO) to perform. I’m not saying that attaining that familiarity can’t be done but I guess the big question is why deal with it in the first place?

Should bolt guns have automatic safeties?

Arguably your reasoning in favor of an automatic safety is just as subjective as my argument against it although I think mine has more merit. I think the fact that automatic safeties are the exception rather than the rule proves that.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. Or not. That’s fine too.

This isnt Facebook, of course we can agree to disagree lol.

"Why deal with it?" is safety, as explained more in depth in the 2nd part of my last reply. And why it's not the norm is because most firearms owners arent as proficient as they should be. Also guessing that there is some major engineering reason why it's easy to implement on a double rifle and likely more difficult on a bolt action.

My main point was to the OP: when shopping for a double gun, the advantages that an S2 provides far outweigh the safety, if you choose to view that as a "con". If someone wants an accurate and versatile double but isnt willing to learn and auto safety, to be frank, they probably dont have business taking an animals life especially if its DG where many human lives could be put at stake by lack of proficiency with their weapon

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Gentlemen, this thread started as Merkel 140 vs Blaser S2.
I hate to reveal after all the discussion of Pro and Con of automatics safeties, Merkel 140's also come with automatic safeties. At least that is the way my two never been shot 140AE's are.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

Our subconscious mind rules our lives. If we practice or repeat an act enough, it becomes subconscious (often called muscle memory). Experts say subconscious repetition control can occur in as little as 20-30 repetitions. For me, when I practice or train correctly, this occurs. When I don't do that issues occur.
Buddies are impressed as hell at how rapidly I can deploy my (favorite) hammer shotgun on birds. They are also amused as hell when I swap it out for another shotgun and birds fly away as I stroke for the hammers. After committing that error a couple times, I practice on clays and/or dry fire when I go to any of my other shotguns.

Back on topic: use what you like and practice, practice, practice. The game we hunt and all the people we hunt with deserve that. Merkel: classic look and feel. Blaser: modern look and more accurate. How well (or not) the safety is deployed depends on the shooter.

Happy Christmas to all and Safe Shooting

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Gentlemen, this thread started as Merkel 140 vs Blaser S2.
I hate to reveal after all the discussion of Pro and Con of automatics safeties, Merkel 140's also come with automatic safeties. At least that is the way my two never been shot 140AE's are.

To be fair I don’t think I made an argument for the Merkel!

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

This isnt Facebook, of course we can agree to disagree lol.

"Why deal with it?" is safety, as explained more in depth in the 2nd part of my last reply. And why it's not the norm is because most firearms owners arent as proficient as they should be. Also guessing that there is some major engineering reason why it's easy to implement on a double rifle and likely more difficult on a bolt action.

My main point was to the OP: when shopping for a double gun, the advantages that an S2 provides far outweigh the safety, if you choose to view that as a "con". If someone wants an accurate and versatile double but isnt willing to learn and auto safety, to be frank, they probably dont have business taking an animals life especially if its DG where many human lives could be put at stake by lack of proficiency with their weapon

I think you’re wrong lol!!

I think your speculation on why auto safeties aren’t the norm is pure conjecture.

They’re too safe!!

 

[mikecatt13]

I think you’re wrong lol!!

I think your speculation on why auto safeties aren’t the norm is pure conjecture.

They’re too safe!!

Well, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

My experience on practice routines and weapon manipulation (national competition shooting titles) and my opinions on hunting ethics also disagree

But we can move on and still be AH friends lol

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Well, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

My comments on practice routines and weapon manipulation are based on the huge amount of work it took to master countless platforms and guns pursuing over a dozen national titles in action shooting, not just opinions.

Maybe we can get a DG PH to weigh in on how seriously they think a client should take their practice routine. And if they're not committed enough to make it truly second nature, would they prefer a client with a gun that automatically goes on safe and may take 1/2 seconds extra to fire or would they want to risk getting shot in the back because the client forgot to re-engage a safety. Pressure breeds mistakes in the ill prepared, they will absolutely happen.

Your whole premise is based on everything going perfectly in every situation and is unrealistic IMO. Any client (especially DG clients) obviously ought to be as prepared as they possibly can be. You’re conflating two issues: auto vs non-auto safeties and gun safety in general. All this is based on your experience in a highly controlled environment.

I contend that pressure can breed mistakes in ANYONE and an auto safety does not provide much room for error.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

To be fair I don’t think I made an argument for the Merkel!

Never mind lol. Too many irons in the fire

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Well, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

But we can move on and still be AH friends lol

Agreed lol

 

[Quaticman]

I can't comment on the Blaser because I've never held one in my hands. I can however comment on the Merkel because I own a 140 AE chambered in .500 Nitro Express. I will say that it is an accurate, fully functioning, reliable double rifle chambered in a classic African dangerous game caliber. Yes the Holland and Holland, Rigby, Westley Richard's and other bespoke English doubles may have more panache however the Merkel is a fine example of German gunmaking that is as reliable as they come. In essence it's a good quality, affordable double rifle that any big game hunter or PH would be happy to carry in the field.

 

[Daniel Cary]

I like the looks of the S2 ..

 

[Altitude sickness]

Daniel, I am in the minority too. I liked the S2 even before I shot it. I think they are a Handsome rifle.

 

[Daniel Cary]

Daniel, I am in the minority too. I liked the S2 even before I shot it. I think they are a Handsome rifle.

Both a dream to own .. there's something masculine. beefy about it.

And allegedly accurate. reliable, etc...

 

[Manny R]

I had the opportunity to purchase a Blaser S2 470NE rifle. One of the members on this site turned me on to an attorney who was liquidating an Estate Sale on this rifle. Me being a lefty it is very hard to find DR. After a little haggling and a few pictures we agreed on a fair price. Before purchasing the DR; I spoke to Reg Leg about this rifle and after speaking to him I decided to purchase it from the estate.
Last weekend was the first time I took the rifle out to shoot it with a Trijicon RMR Red Dot. I must say after a few shots shots zeroing the rifle in on the right barrel then 1 shot using the left barrel it was hitting the bull at 50 yds. So far I am very please with this Blaser S2 DR.
Here is my opinion...I like the safety feature on the decocking. Granted I must apply practice and keep in my mind to push the decocking after I reload. I like to be able to carry the gun in a safe manner without it accidentally going off. Safety is always my primary issue with any gun. One other thing the wood on my S2 is probably a Grade 7-8.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Come on Manny, let’s see the S2

 

[Rare Breed]

Without question I am a Merkle 140 man as I just took a lion with it and love the way it handles in 470 NE. I respect those with a Blaser just not for me

 

[Daniel Cary]

Without question I am a Merkle 140 man as I just took a lion with it and love the way it handles in 470 NE. I respect those with a Blaser just not for me

Congrats on a successful Hunt! .. Merkel was my initial intent.
YouTube Surface Video.

 

[BeeMaa]

...One other thing the wood on my S2 is probably a Grade 7-8.

I'm with @Altitude sickness on this one. Pics or it's not true.