My Take on Dangerous Game Scopes

[Mtn_Infantry]

Sure but in a hunting scenario you never know what you will be facing. The terrain, the animals, the non-target animals, and being able to determine wind at distance are all variables and reasons for more magnification.

My comment wasn't direct to you BUT I'm 100% more certain of what I'll face in a hunting scenario.

That said I don't disagree with your optics choice for a utility .375. Maybe I'm splitting hairs but where I disagree, is the title "Dangerous Game Scopes". I find this misleading. IMO it should be titled "My take on the perfect African Hunting Scope". You've built essentially a utility field rifle, or what you and I probably consider the best 1 gun battery for Africa. By your own admission you've relegated the double as the Dangerous Game rifle.

You're set-up is very similar to what I've been using (VX5HD 3-15x44) on a Pre-64 M70 in .375 H&H. It pulls double duty for DG and PG (3 species of the Big 5 and 30+ species of Plains Game). Your Swaro Z8 1.7-13.3 is an amazing choice and I've debated buying one for this rifle. For some reason, I can't bring myself to take the VX5 off (if it's not broken dont fix it). DG shots for me have been from as close as 8ish yards to about 60yds on a recent buffalo coming off water in Zim.

Like you, my dedicated DG rifle is a double. I'm currently building another 375 H&H for a 2 gun battery. This one will have iron sights, and either a Swaro Z8 1.7-13.4 in QD's, or I'm considering a 2 scope QD set-up. I'm between either a S&B 1-4 w/ illum or a VX6 1-6 w/ illum, & pairing it with the same mfg 2-12x42/3-12x42 option in QD's).

 

[Opposite Pole]

what is peoples thoughts on the Z8 1.7-13x42 on a cz .416 Rigby ?

Will it fit on a cz 550 magnum ?

You can get a rail version of the scope and use this type of mount:

INNOmount QD Mount for CZ 550/557, Swarovski SR Rail

INNOmount QD Mount for CZ 550, Swarovski SR Rail

www.optics-trade.eu

 

[Red Leg]

I shoot a ton my man. I went through the whole use the minimal magnification you can get by with thing.

For me, the more the better. And, my opinion only, for 90% of hunters that don’t eat and breathe this stuff it’s better for them too.

Remember this was started by Philip. Is there anyone here with more in the field experience than him? At my range most have moved away from trying to shoot with the least amount if magnification they can. Especially with 8x and 10x scope out there now that give you both ends of the spectrum.

This probably started when If you wanted low end magnification for up close work you had to use a 1-3 or 1-4x. We don’t live in that world now. You can have both. 1-10. 1.5-15x.

I don’t drive a Prius. I drive a v8. I rarely use the high end, but by God I’m glad it’s there when I need it.

I think you will find quite a few people with lots of experience who have little use for higher end magnification except for very specialized shooting with specialized equipment - let’s say a 22-250 and prairie dog town - 6x will be the max needed in any normal shooting situation. The variables that have replaced the 3x9 typically start at 1.5/2.5 and top out between 10 and 12. In a 40mm something objective you have the world covered without excess weight.

Your 6x reticule looks perfect to me. You have a clear target area, quick target acquisition, and you will have little introduced perceived movement. Those to me are far more important considerations than simple magnification - particularly in the hasty rest conditions that characterize most actual hunting (like shooting sticks).

 

[Philip Glass]

Not the brightness, but the MOA of the dot.

I guess there is some differences in the scopes. The Swaro dot appears smaller as it dims.

 

[Philip Glass]

With better glass the light isn't insufficient. It lets you start earlier and hunt later. Noticeable on both ends.

Hunter A, "Take a look at these amazingly good, Euro Brand, top end, $3k+ binoculars, I just got. Wow what a difference they make"

Hunter A, "All I need is my trusty 1997 VAR-XIII 1-4x. I don't see the need"

Funny you mention binos. I've always had a terrible time focusing both eyes. I used monoculars most of the time. Then some years ago I bought some Zeiss binos and I could see well for the first time!

 

[Philip Glass]

I take a different approach on shots which works well for me. As stated, I am sure your approach works well for you.

I agree with your point on the hunt. I didn’t know I would become addicted to Coues deer until I did it! I knew I would love red stag, but was absolutely blown away being in the middle of four roaring stags this year in Romania.

Tight lines and straight shots!

I am dreaming of Romania!

 

[Philip Glass]

Phillip ,
I just purchased a .375 for my next hunt in Africa. I would wish to use my 470NE Double within 50-100 yds for Lion and possible Hippo. If my shot is over 100yds I would use my .375 up to maximum distance of 300 yds on other Game.
Finally here is my question.... I am a big supporter of Swarovski rifle scopes,bino & spotting scopes.
I would like to know your opinion of the Swarovski Z6i 1.7-10x42 which is about $1,000 less than the Z8i 1.7- 13.3x42

I am sure you would be happy with the Z6. I would just say that the Z8 is worth the little bit extra. Best of luck on your next safari!

 

[mdwest]

I shoot a ton my man. I went through the whole use the minimal magnification you can get by with thing.

For me, the more the better. And, my opinion only, for 90% of hunters that don’t eat and breathe this stuff it’s better for them too.

Remember this was started by Philip. Is there anyone here with more in the field experience than him? At my range most have moved away from trying to shoot with the least amount if magnification they can. Especially with 8x and 10x scope out there now that give you both ends of the spectrum.

This probably started when If you wanted low end magnification for up close work you had to use a 1-3 or 1-4x. We don’t live in that world now. You can have both. 1-10. 1.5-15x.

I don’t drive a Prius. I drive a v8. I rarely use the high end, but by God I’m glad it’s there when I need it.

There are a lot of folks here (including Philip) with a lot of experience behind a rifle… to include not only highly experienced international hunters, but also competitive long range shooters, a Camp Perry champion, at least 3 qualified military snipers I am aware of, and at least 1 sniper instructor I am aware of.

I don’t disagree that these days there is little reason not to have more magnification on a 375… to @Red Leg point, while 3-9 used to be the standard there are lots of options out there now in the 1.5 or 2.5 - 10 range… so, why not? There may be a scenario out there where the 10x option comes in handy… but to several people’s earlier point, cranking up magnification brings detriments along with its perceived advantages, and shooters (especially when taking longer distance shots) should know and understand what those are.

For me, when we are talking anything more that a 375… the biggest reason to stick to lower power options is eye relief… while there are a few 1.5-10 type options that will give you 4” or more at the higher magnification settings.. you have extremely limited options and they are very expensive..

When shooting full power loads from my 416 I will trade off magnification for eye relief..

And it’s not like that rifle is intended to be shot at greater distances than 100 ever anyway (50 or less being preferred)..

 

[WAB]

I think you will find quite a few people with lots of experience who have little use for higher end magnification except for very specialized shooting with specialized equipment - let’s say a 22-250 and prairie dog town - 6x will be the max needed in any normal shooting situation. The variables that have replaced the 3x9 typically start at 1.5/2.5 and top out between 10 and 12. In a 40mm something objective you have the world covered without excess weight.

Your 6x reticule looks perfect to me. You have a clear target area, quick target acquisition, and you will have little introduced perceived movement. Those to me are far more important considerations than simple magnification - particularly in the hasty rest conditions that characterize most actual hunting (like shooting sticks).

I totally agree. I have high magnification scopes, but they are for specialized applications, Coues deer, varmints, etc.. The scopes on my traditional hunting rifles top out at a Z6 1.6-10 and a VX6 2-12. For years the only big game rifle I had was a M70 in 7x57 topped with a VX3 2.5-8x. I took truckloads of big game with that rifle living in Canada, Wyoming and Alaska. I never felt the need for more magnification.

My shooting style and preferences lead me to the lower magnifications. If higher magnification works better for you, great. I would suggest that you seriously consider mounting position and cheek weld when choosing a scope. I will not have a rig that does not allow a good cheek weld with proper eye relief and fast target acquisition. This can be more challenging with larger scopes.

 

[Red Leg]

I totally agree. I have high magnification scopes, but they are for specialized applications, Coues deer, varmints, etc.. The scopes on my traditional hunting rifles top out at a Z6 1.6-10 and a VX6 2-12. For years the only big game rifle I had was a M70 in 7x57 topped with a VX3 2.5-8x. I took truckloads of big game with that rifle living in Canada, Wyoming and Alaska. I never felt the need for more magnification.

My shooting style and preferences lead me to the lower magnifications. If higher magnification works better for you, great. I would suggest that you seriously consider mounting position and cheek weld when choosing a scope. I will not have a rig that does not allow a good cheek weld with proper eye relief and fast target acquisition. This can be more challenging with larger scopes.

Absolutely. Bigger is also problematic. I have zero use for a general purpose hunting scope with an objective lens beginning with a 5. Specialized equipment is a different issue.

 

[0002S]

I guess there is some differences in the scopes. The Swaro dot appears smaller as it dims.

You’re correct. But as the distance increases the vitals size decrease, in the scope, and the MOA of the aiming point, becomes an issue, relative to the vitals size. It’s even worse with a FFP scope and why I’m not a fan of super tactical FFP scopes for my hunting rifles.

With respect to this discussion, it’s not going to be an issue with Big Game vitals sizes, and what is considered long range shot, with dangerous game rifles. My definition of long distance hunting, is usually, longer than most and I shouldn't be applying it to this discussion.

I seriously doubt people are taking 500-600 yard shots, on speed goats, with their 416 Weatherby Mags and 14x scopes. Although it would be interesting to try it…lol.

This actually dove tails into the discussion of a truly one rifle battery. You could easily argue a 375 H&H, w/2-12x range scope, can do it all, with the right bullet choices. I could come up with extremes where it wouldn't be the best choice of tools, but it would 'do it'. It would make for an interesting Hunting TV program for someone to hunt the world's slams, with only this round.

 

[Red Leg]

You’re correct. But as the distance increases the vitals size decrease, in the scope, and the MOA of the aiming point, becomes an issue, relative to the vitals size. It’s even worse with a FFP scope and why I’m not a fan of super tactical FFP scopes for my hunting rifles.

With respect to this discussion, it’s not going to be an issue with Big Game vitals sizes, and what is considered long range shot, with dangerous game rifles. My definition of long distance hunting, is usually, longer than most and I shouldn't be applying it to this discussion.

I seriously doubt people are taking 500-600 yard shots, on speed goats, with their 416 Weatherby Mags and 14x scopes. Although it would be interesting to try it…lol.

This actually dove tails into the discussion of a truly one rifle battery. You could easily argue a 375 H&H, w/2-12x range scope, can do it all, with the right bullet choices. I could come up with extremes where it wouldn't be the best choice of tools, but it would 'do it'. It would make for an interesting Hunting TV program for someone to hunt the world's slams, with only this round.

Mine certainly does - at least in Africa. I own a .470, .404, and 500/416. Somehow these days the handy little R8 in .375 is what actually gets backed for the trip.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

There are a lot of folks here (including Philip) with a lot of experience behind a rifle… to include not only highly experienced international hunters, but also competitive long range shooters, a Camp Perry champion, at least 3 qualified military snipers I am aware of, and at least 1 sniper instructor I am aware of.

I don’t disagree that these days there is little reason not to have more magnification on a 375… to @Red Leg point, while 3-9 used to be the standard there are lots of options out there now in the 1.5 or 2.5 - 10 range… so, why not? There may be a scenario out there where the 10x option comes in handy… but to several people’s earlier point, cranking up magnification brings detriments along with its perceived advantages, and shooters (especially when taking longer distance shots) should know and understand what those are.

For me, when we are talking anything more that a 375… the biggest reason to stick to lower power options is eye relief… while there are a few 1.5-10 type options that will give you 4” or more at the higher magnification settings.. you have extremely limited options and they are very expensive..

When shooting full power loads from my 416 I will trade off magnification for eye relief..

And it’s not like that rifle is intended to be shot at greater distances than 100 ever anyway (50 or less being preferred)..

Eye relief and eye box is extremely important in a DG Scope or any situation where quick target acquisition is important.

I was ignoring this hoping we’d see a trophy photo showing signs of being scoped from a medium to big bore with a high magnification objective turned all the way up.

 

[375Fox]

Eye relief and eye box is extremely important in a DG Scope or any situation where quick target acquisition is important.

I was ignoring this hoping we’d see a trophy photo showing signs of being scoped from a medium to big bore with a high magnification objective turned all the way up.

I think you called it right in your previous post. The scope choices being discussed are more for an all around rifle/375. Some of the scope choices discussed on a larger rifle would make nice trophy photos with blood on the animal and the hunter from the scope cut (and hopefully that would be the extent of the damage).

 

[Rafiki]

Aa
I was ignoring this hoping we’d see a trophy photo showing signs of being scoped from a medium to big bore with a high magnification objective turned all the way up.

That would be interesting maybe a screen shot from that app in this thread; buffalo at say 40 yards, head on.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I think you called it right in your previous post. The scope choices being discussed are more for an all around rifle/375. Some of the scope choices discussed on a larger rifle would make nice trophy photos with blood on the animal and the hunter from the scope cut (and hopefully that would be the extent of the damage).

Any way you slice it the rifles in the video are a great set-up for Africa and can do most anything. For some specialized stuff there might be a few tweaks needed.

Makes me want to play around with some stuff tonight.

 

[Daisy]

There is a lot of experience in this forum (and inexperience as well). It’s important to balance it out. It’s all an opinion. All PHs have different opinions when you ask. Most hunters do as well. Everyone has different experience that causes them to think they way they do. For myself I’ve done 11 African safaris in 5 countries. 9 European hunts in 5 countries, New Zealand and Australia, and a few guided hunts in North America. Philip has a lot of experience but there are countries and regions he hasn’t hunted in other members here have and countries he’s hunted in others haven’t.

Yeah. Agree on everyone’s experience. So I guess his experience and opinion would be at least as beneficial as yours?

I think you will find quite a few people with lots of experience who have little use for higher end magnification except for very specialized shooting with specialized equipment - let’s say a 22-250 and prairie dog town - 6x will be the max needed in any normal shooting situation. The variables that have replaced the 3x9 typically start at 1.5/2.5 and top out between 10 and 12. In a 40mm something objective you have the world covered without excess weight.

Your 6x reticule looks perfect to me. You have a clear target area, quick target acquisition, and you will have little introduced perceived movement. Those to me are far more important considerations than simple magnification - particularly in the hasty rest conditions that characterize most actual hunting (like shooting sticks).

I think you’ll get a lot of positive reinforcement here. But I think you’ll be outside the norm for most people.

 

[Daisy]

There are a lot of folks here (including Philip) with a lot of experience behind a rifle… to include not only highly experienced international hunters, but also competitive long range shooters, a Camp Perry champion, at least 3 qualified military snipers I am aware of, and at least 1 sniper instructor I am aware of.

I don’t disagree that these days there is little reason not to have more magnification on a 375… to @Red Leg point, while 3-9 used to be the standard there are lots of options out there now in the 1.5 or 2.5 - 10 range… so, why not? There may be a scenario out there where the 10x option comes in handy… but to several people’s earlier point, cranking up magnification brings detriments along with its perceived advantages, and shooters (especially when taking longer distance shots) should know and understand what those are.

For me, when we are talking anything more that a 375… the biggest reason to stick to lower power options is eye relief… while there are a few 1.5-10 type options that will give you 4” or more at the higher magnification settings.. you have extremely limited options and they are very expensive..

When shooting full power loads from my 416 I will trade off magnification for eye relief..

And it’s not like that rifle is intended to be shot at greater distances than 100 ever anyway (50 or less being preferred)..

Man. My thoughts just more eloquent.

Swaro’s new z8i+ 1-8seems perfect for larger calibers than 375. Huge field of view and great eye box at 1x. Both in same scope.

I regentky went with March 1-10x on my 416 and 1.5-15 on 375. I’ve been happy so far on my few range trips. Went from 1-6 on 416 and 2-12 vx6’s on them. We will see how I like it!

 

[Llano Estacado]

Man. My thoughts just more eloquent.

Swaro’s new z8i+ 1-8seems perfect for larger calibers than 375. Huge field of view and great eye box at 1x. Both in same scope.

I regentky went with March 1-10x on my 416 and 1.5-15 on 375. I’ve been happy so far on my few range trips. Went from 1-6 on 416 and 2-12 vx6’s on them. We will see how I like it!

Another issue to keep in mind is ocular size and bolt manipulation. I recently ordered a Scmmidt 1-8, and while the optics were amazing, the ocular was too large to quickly run the model 70 bolt. I expect this to be the case with new Kahles and Swarovski as well. I have used a k16 that is amazing, but i cant open the bolt above 4x( left hand model 70).

 

[Daisy]

Another issue to keep in mind is ocular size and bolt manipulation. I recently ordered a Scmmidt 1-8, and while the optics were amazing, the ocular was too large to quickly run the model 70 bolt. I expect this to be the case with new Kahles and Swarovski as well. I have used a k16 that is amazing, but i cant open the bolt above 4x( left hand model 70).

I switched to straight pull recently but I agree for traditional bolt actions.

One thing now mentioned I’ve been thinking about.

I’ve often read the argument about the cost savings of a lower powered scope. No need for a 3k swaro 1.7-13.3.

However, those same people advocate for a second scope on the same rifle for other game, or a complete second rifle and scope setup. Wouldn’t that cost more money than just a 375 with a multi purpose scope?