My Take on Dangerous Game Scopes

[375Fox]

Yeah. Agree on everyone’s experience. So I guess his experience and opinion would be at least as beneficial as yours?

The only persons I’d consider experts are certain PHs in their primary areas. The rest of us are just enthusiasts. There are a lot of individuals here who have a right to their opinions, but if no one questions an opinion or argues differently no one learns anything new on this forum.

 

[375Fox]

I’ve often read the argument about the cost savings of a lower powered scope. No need for a 3k swaro 1.7-13.3.
However, those same people advocate for a second scope on the same rifle for other game, or a complete second rifle and scope setup. Wouldn’t that cost more money than just a 375 with a multi purpose scope?

I’ve been on this forum several years. I’ve never seen cost savings mentioned as a reason to go with a low powered scope. Bringing two guns is a matter of opinion, some simply want to bring two guns, such as a heavy rifle and a 300 mag. I’d rather bring a 375 only. That’s the general consensus here I’ve seen for a one gun safari since I joined. I did fine with a 5x Leupold scope out to 300 yards and I like the 10x Leupold scope I have now. I see no need for a 13x Swarovski even if it is a great scope.

 

[Daisy]

The only persons I’d consider experts are certain PHs in their primary areas. The rest of us are just enthusiasts. There are a lot of individuals here who have a right to their opinions, but if no one questions an opinion or argues differently no one learns anything new on this forum.

I would say all enthusiasts aren’t created equal.

To your other post on cost. In this same thread.

I’ve been on this forum several years. I’ve never seen cost savings mentioned as a reason to go with a low powered scope. Bringing two guns is a matter of opinion, some simply want to bring two guns, such as a heavy rifle and a 300 mag. I’d rather bring a 375 only. That’s the general consensus here I’ve seen for a one gun safari since I joined. I did fine with a 5x Leupold scope out to 300 yards and I like the 10x Leupold scope I have now. I see no need for a 13x Swarovski even if it is a great scope

There are a lot of folks here (including Philip) with a lot of experience behind a rifle… to include not only highly experienced international hunters, but also competitive long range shooters, a Camp Perry champion, at least 3 qualified military snipers I am aware of, and at least 1 sniper instructor I am aware of.

I don’t disagree that these days there is little reason not to have more magnification on a 375… to @Red Leg point, while 3-9 used to be the standard there are lots of options out there now in the 1.5 or 2.5 - 10 range… so, why not? There may be a scenario out there where the 10x option comes in handy… but to several people’s earlier point, cranking up magnification brings detriments along with its perceived advantages, and shooters (especially when taking longer distance shots) should know and understand what those are.

For me, when we are talking anything more that a 375… the biggest reason to stick to lower power options is eye relief… while there are a few 1.5-10 type options that will give you 4” or more at the higher magnification settings.. you have extremely limited options and they are very expensive..

When shooting full power loads from my 416 I will trade off magnification for eye relief..

And it’s not like that rifle is intended to be shot at greater distances than 100 ever anyway (50 or less being preferred)..

 

[Rafiki]

This thread needs to mind meld with the "Elk at 688 yards with a 243".

 

[375Ruger416]

Have a Leupold VX-6 1-6 on a semiauto carbine and really like it. However, I buy the OP’s assertion that 1.7 or 2 on the low end is still useable on an all-around DG rifle and gives you magnification for use on plains game etc.

Weren’t fixed 4 powers once in vogue on DG rifles? Certainly a modern ~ 2-12 is better than that (both on the low and high end?)

On the other hand, I’ve been doing a lot of ‘precision shooting’ and training the last couple of years and have found that even at 1000 yds I like 16-18 power for field of view so I can see my hits (and correct on my misses). I am strongly R eye dominant too, so always shoot with both eyes open - pistol, shotgun, carbine, and rifle.

A red dot, LPVO, or a variable with a very low end all seem like reasonable options. That 1.7 - 13 Swaro seems like a hell of a choice for a one-rifle safari with a 375.

Crap. I think my future self just bought another gun. Killed my bull moose clean this year with a 7 RM and 160 gr TSX. A 375 would have to work better though, right? And then I can take it to Africa too!

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Have a Leupold VX-6 1-6 on a semiauto carbine and really like it. However, I buy the OP’s assertion that 1.7 or 2 on the low end is still useable on an all-around DG rifle and gives you magnification for use on plains game etc.

Weren’t fixed 4 powers once in vogue on DG rifles? Certainly a modern ~ 2-12 is better than that (both on the low and high end?)

On the other hand, I’ve been doing a lot of ‘precision shooting’ and training the last couple of years and have found that even at 1000 yds I like 16-18 power for field of view so I can see my hits (and correct on my misses). I am strongly R eye dominant too, so always shoot with both eyes open - pistol, shotgun, carbine, and rifle.

A red dot, LPVO, or a variable with a very low end all seem like reasonable options. That 1.7 - 13 Swaro seems like a hell of a choice for a one-rifle safari with a 375.

Crap. I think my future self just bought another gun. Killed my bull moose clean this year with a 7 RM and 160 gr TSX. A 375 would have to work better though, right? And then I can take it to Africa too!

Shop away, that 375 is a great option for africa, use it on moose, big bears, shoot 250 or 270gr pills for stuff smaller in the states.

 

[Philip Glass]

Hence the reason for the video! To challenge "conventional wisdom"!!!

 

[Rare Breed]

Yea baby! Finally taking my advice on something.

lol!!! just because i forgot the chapstick on your packing list which i follow religiously and almost paid for it if Terry had not had extra you never let me forget it!!!!

 

[Rare Breed]

Not near enough magnification for the leopard. You want to zoom in and take everything out of your sight and mind. Then find the rosette and squeeze!

Philip what magnification did you use for your leopard this year please?

 

[Rare Breed]

and I agree most of the time it’s not necessary. I don’t have a shot on my farm over 250.

There are places in Africa though, because parcels are so big, you could have a 25 yard shot and a 400 yard shot in the same day.

very true. on my first Safari years ago i had practiced from 200 yards given my shooting farm range. i took both my Kudu and Springbok at over 350 yards which surprised me but i was successful. i was thankful i had studied the ballistic tables before the hunt at distance which helped. however the real credit goes to my PH Colin who coached me

 

[Philip Glass]

Philip what magnification did you use for your leopard this year please?

I think I zoomed up to around 18. It was nice for that 100 yard shot in the dark.

 

[375Ruger416]

I agree and this is why I often relate the stories of me going to SAAM shooting school (3X). It is very expensive but so are multiple safaris not to mention lost game!

Have been looking at the SAAM safari school. Have done Mapleseed, training with a local retired sniper, and a couple of Gunwerks courses. The SAAM courses look well worth it for the practice shooting at African plains and dangerous game.

Is it as good as it seems? Would you recommend it?

 

[Philip Glass]

Have been looking at the SAAM safari school. Have done Mapleseed, training with a local retired sniper, and a couple of Gunwerks courses. The SAAM courses look well worth it for the practice shooting at African plains and dangerous game.

Is it as good as it seems? Would you recommend it?

I have been 3 times. It is a four day course. You will be trained by former Marine and Navy snipers on all kinds of shooting scenarios. From basic range time and fundamentals to challenging wind calls across a canyon, they cover it all. I have done the Advanced Precision and the Safari courses. Safari begins with long range shooting with a PG type caliber of your choosing. Then time will be spent with your big bores on the bench, sticks, sticks in the field on animal targets, and finally moving targets like the charging buffalo!
The atmosphere is that of a Big 5 Safari camp. The huge trophy room, the bar, and the food are all quite memorable.
Tim Fallon, the owner, is a friend and currently president of DSC.

 

[375Ruger416]

I have been 3 times. It is a four day course. You will be trained by former Marine and Navy snipers on all kinds of shooting scenarios. From basic range time and fundamentals to challenging wind calls across a canyon, they cover it all. I have done the Advanced Precision and the Safari courses. Safari begins with long range shooting with a PG type caliber of your choosing. Then time will be spent with your big bores on the bench, sticks, sticks in the field on animal targets, and finally moving targets like the charging buffalo!
The atmosphere is that of a Big 5 Safari camp. The huge trophy room, the bar, and the food are all quite memorable.
Tim Fallon, the owner, is a friend and currently president of DSC.

Sounds like a brilliant time. Was looking at the course in February 9-14. Wonder if my wife would take a trip to Texas for Valentine’s Day

OTOH, she hates Valentine’s Day anyway so maybe I can go by myself

 

[375Fox]

You should shoot at your highest and lowest power on the range and check for repeatable accuracy. I recently found I had a problem with my high powered scope for my .375.

The biggest advantage I have seen with lowered powers over higher comes in tracking the follow up shot. I do much better with lower power and larger FOV.

I’ve never actually shot my rifles at 100 yard range at highest and lowest power as you suggested. I’ve only shot the same rifle with different powered scopes and saw same results and from field positions and off sticks at lower power settings. I always sighted in at highest power setting scope had. I decided to try your advice today with my 300 Win with a VX5 2-10

Top 3 above center at 10x after sighted in previously

At 2x today. It was definitely tougher to see and clearly identify where aiming but result is still nearly the same. At least on this scope too proves 2x and 10x are same point of impact.

 

[375Fox]

Hence the reason for the video! To challenge "conventional wisdom"!!!

It might not be too long before this becomes conventional wisdom. It seems a lot of hunters have came to the same conclusions.

 

[Forrest Halley]

I’ve never actually shot my rifles at 100 yard range at highest and lowest power as you suggested. I’ve only shot the same rifle with different powered scopes and saw same results and from field positions and off sticks at lower power settings. I always sighted in at highest power setting scope had. I decided to try your advice today with my 300 Win with a VX5 2-10

Top 3 above center at 10x after sighted in previously


At 2x today. It was definitely tougher to see and clearly identify where aiming but result is still nearly the same. At least on this scope too proves 2x and 10x are same point of impact.

So I took a fat sharpie and made crosses to aid in scope alignment at the various powers. When it repeated the issue at fifty yards and one hundred I was done guessing. Let the Leupoldians look it over and tell me the story.

 

[RayAtkinson]

For DG Ive always preferred a Leupold 3X or 4X, for everything else Iike the older 2x7x28 as its the same size as a 4X..and I also want iron sights on any DG and I use them, they are not just for looks..I think many Americans are over scoped and big scopes work against the hunter unless you have a optical problem with your eyesight...I could write a book making that case...

 

[Sideshow]

Funny you mention binos. I've always had a terrible time focusing both eyes. I used monoculars most of the time. Then some years ago I bought some Zeiss binos and I could see well for the first time!

@Philip Glass thanks for the video just reading through the posts and saw this comment. Had the same issue until I picked up a leupold pro staff bins. Used to close one eye on most binoculars. Was on a photo safari and the guide really wanted them. Excellent last/first light capability as well.

 

[cajunchefray]

So I took a fat sharpie and made crosses to aid in scope alignment at the various powers. When it repeated the issue at fifty yards and one hundred I was done guessing. Let the Leupoldians look it over and tell me the story.

I use black electrical tape, from the hardware store, to make a 3" cross on a white paper. Helps me align the crosshairs, not canted and resolve the aiming point.
Once scope is sighed in, I use a 1" black aiming point, tape or Sharpie, and shoot for accurate shot placement.

I think @RayAtkinson has it correct that 3x or 4x scopes just work in the field.

Mr. O'Connor and Mr. Keith recommended the same decades ago. Works for my poor eyes.

I really wish Leupold would make a run of the fixed 3x scope, with an illuminated Fire dot reticle.

If some Marketing whizz could convince the 3-gun crowd, that 3x scope magnification really works out to 300 yards, we could be in business with useful hunting scopes.