Politics

[Dragan N.]

A final little fact for those embracing the whole Soviet Union/Russia is just a misunderstood nation being abused by the evil West led by the perfidious United States.

RJ Rummel is a highly respected researcher into the lethal history of socialism. His research has concluded that the Soviet Union was responsible for the deaths of 61,000,000 people - Russian people. 39,000,000 of those died in forced labor camps or through execution, and most of the remainder through starvation during collectivization. The Russians make the Nazis look like armatures.

This is the regime who the Russian apologists claim the US and the West have "villainized." I don't think even Saul D. Alinsky would have the nerve to claim that.

Putin has not resorted to mass murder. His killing and imprisonment, other than his own troops dying by the tens of thousands in Ukraine, has largely been focused on his political rivals. Whether Litvinenko or Skripal or Navalny, Putin's adversaries have been poisoned, thrown from windows, or vanished into the current penal system. If we count the poor citizens who dared to voice an objection to the Special Military Operation, the number runs into the hundreds of thousands. Yet this is the creature the Russian apologists paint as simply misunderstood.

Speaking of RJ Rummel, here is what his wiki page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_Rummel, says about his work:

"His figures for Communist governments have been criticized for the methodology which he used to arrive at them, and they have also been criticized for being higher than the figures which have been given by most scholars.[5][6][7][8][9][10][11]"

https://www.levandehistoria.se/site...e/research-review-crimes-against-humanity.pdf Go to p. 35 and 79

While Jerry Hough suggested Stalin's terror claimed tens of thousands of victims, R.J. Rummel puts the death toll of Soviet communist terror between 1917 and 1987 at 61,911,000. In both cases, these figures are based on an ideological preunderstanding and speculative and sweeping calculations. On the other hand, the considerably lower figures in terms of numbers of Gulag prisoners presented by Russian researchers during the glasnost period have been relatively widely accepted. ... It could, quite rightly, be claimed that the opinions that Rummel presents here (they are hardly an example of a serious and empirically-based writing of history) do not deserve to be mentioned in a research review, but they are still perhaps worth bringing up on the basis of the interest in him in the blogosphere."

Rummel's main argument was that "democracies" commit less democides than autocracies do. Yet it is funny that in his work he omitted what the British did to India. The British made both the Nazis and Soviets look like boy scouts.

How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

The extraordinary mortality rates in India between 1880 to 1920 were no accident.

www.aljazeera.com

Beyond the Raj: how British colonialism continues to impact human rights in India

Introduction: Are Human Rights Universal? The concept of human rights predates the current system, which was established in 1945 with the creation of the United Nations (Mende, 2019). “Universal hu…

blogs.lse.ac.uk

 

[Tundra Tiger]

"I can't decide who is more ignorant - Trump or his wildly applauding and cheering audience."

In horse racing parlance isn't that called a 'photo finish'?

 

[Red Leg]

Speaking of RJ Rummel, here is what his wiki page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_Rummel, says about his work:

"His figures for Communist governments have been criticized for the methodology which he used to arrive at them, and they have also been criticized for being higher than the figures which have been given by most scholars.[5][6][7][8][9][10][11]"

https://www.levandehistoria.se/site...e/research-review-crimes-against-humanity.pdf Go to p. 35 and 79

While Jerry Hough suggested Stalin's terror claimed tens of thousands of victims, R.J. Rummel puts the death toll of Soviet communist terror between 1917 and 1987 at 61,911,000. In both cases, these figures are based on an ideological preunderstanding and speculative and sweeping calculations. On the other hand, the considerably lower figures in terms of numbers of Gulag prisoners presented by Russian researchers during the glasnost period have been relatively widely accepted. ... It could, quite rightly, be claimed that the opinions that Rummel presents here (they are hardly an example of a serious and empirically-based writing of history) do not deserve to be mentioned in a research review, but they are still perhaps worth bringing up on the basis of the interest in him in the blogosphere."

Rummel's main argument was that "democracies" commit less democides than autocracies do. Yet it is funny that in his work he omitted what the British did to India. The British made both the Nazis and Soviets look like boy scouts.

How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

The extraordinary mortality rates in India between 1880 to 1920 were no accident.

www.aljazeera.com

Beyond the Raj: how British colonialism continues to impact human rights in India

Introduction: Are Human Rights Universal? The concept of human rights predates the current system, which was established in 1945 with the creation of the United Nations (Mende, 2019). “Universal hu…

blogs.lse.ac.uk

You are correct, the apologists for Soviet barbarism and socialism in general do indeed attack Rummel's figures.

The lowest serious totals that I have seen for just the collectivization effort is 3.9 to 5.5 million. Stalin even bragged to Churchill in 1942 of exterminating the Kulaks. Of course, none of these figures take into account purges, the largest of which in 1938/39 serious historians estimate resulted in the deaths of one to two million "enemies of the state." He also butchered his way through Eastern Europe during the war, killing or exiling to slow death any of the military or governmental leadership and intelligentsia that might pose a post-war threat to his regime or the puppet governments being created in Eastern Europe. Or perhaps you also deny the massacre of much of the Polish officer corps in May of 1940 in the Katyn Forest? Taking even the more conservative estimates of legitimate historians I think it is quite easy to reach totals for Stalin of 25-35 million. That makes Hitler look like a piker.

But feel free to defend him and his regime. It is rather unique in my experience.

I am also far less critical of the British Empire than the typical reflexive anti-colonialist. The pre-British sub-continent was a pretty brutal place where religion formed the basis of almost perpetual conflict.

Hough is recognized as one of the leading academic apologists for the Soviet Union. He is widely ridiculed by virtually every leading historian on the subject. I am sure he is popular in Moscow and Serbia.

A brief article to add to your library on Jerry Hough. It was written following some unfortunate comments about race brought him back into the public view after his apologies for the Soviet system were made largely mute and laughable by access to post Soviet research.

Jerry Hough's walk of shame

One thing unmentioned in the “controversy,” I guess the term is, over Jerry Hough’s remarks concerning black separatism is his lengthy history as an apologist for the Soviet Union. Jerry Hough is a man who spent much of his caree...

www.americanthinker.com.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com

 

[Brent in Az]

The average household probably has a week or two's worth of food and potable water. An EMP event would cause an incredible amount of despair, and cause many to become predatory and violent out of desperation for survival.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Interesting, firsthand account of nuclear tests

https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2022/august/witness-brilliant-blasts-when-night-becomes-day

 

[Pheroze]

I am also far less critical of the British Empire than the typical reflexive anti-colonialist. The pre-British sub-continent was a pretty brutal place where religion formed the basis of almost perpetual conflict.

And, there is a false narrative in comparing the British to autocratic regimes. Ghandi would not have found any success in the Soviet Union. In fact, he probably would have disappeared before anyone knew his name. But, let's just carry on ignoring the rule of law and wide spread education when we compare histories. It's worth looking at the Rolls for the Inns of Court. As you go back 100 years you will see a diversity that makes modern EDI look silly. That is because barristers of the Realm were trained in London before returning to to their countries (like my grandfather called to the Bar in Middle Temple in May 1923 before returning to his home in Rangoon).

 

[Dragan N.]

You are correct, the apologists for Soviet barbarism and socialism in general do indeed attack Rummel's figures.

The lowest serious totals that I have seen for just the collectivization effort is 3.9 to 5.5 million. Stalin even bragged to Churchill in 1942 of exterminating the Kulaks. Of course, none of these figures take into account purges, the largest of which in 1938/39 serious historians estimate resulted in the deaths of one to two million "enemies of the state." He also butchered his way through Eastern Europe during the war, killing or exiling to slow death any of the military or governmental leadership and intelligentsia that might pose a post-war threat to his regime or the puppet governments being created in Eastern Europe. Or perhaps you also deny the massacre of much of the Polish officer corps in May of 1940 in the Katyn Forest? Taking even the more conservative estimates of legitimate historians I think it is quite easy to reach totals for Stalin of 25-35 million. That makes Hitler look like a piker.

But feel free to defend him and his regime. It is rather unique in my experience.

I am also far less critical of the British Empire than the typical reflexive anti-colonialist. The pre-British sub-continent was a pretty brutal place where religion formed the basis of almost perpetual conflict.

Hough is recognized as one of the leading academic apologists for the Soviet Union. He is widely ridiculed by virtually every leading historian on the subject. I am sure he is popular in Moscow and Serbia.

A brief article to add to your library on Jerry Hough. It was written following some unfortunate comments about race brought him back into the public view after his apologies for the Soviet system were made largely mute and laughable by access to post Soviet research.

Jerry Hough's walk of shame

One thing unmentioned in the “controversy,” I guess the term is, over Jerry Hough’s remarks concerning black separatism is his lengthy history as an apologist for the Soviet Union. Jerry Hough is a man who spent much of his caree...

www.americanthinker.com.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com

If you actually bothered to read the source that I posted, it is CRITICAL of Hough's estimates of tens of thousands of casualties. They label his figures as being ideologically driven. They are also equally critical of Rummell's figures for being drum roll... ideologically driven. Funny both left and right wing academics are criticized for providing inaccurate ideologically driven figures. Who woulda thunk ?

The people who are critical about ideologically driven historical narratives are probably people who care about something called the truth.

Tim Snyder who is hardly a pro-Soviet or Pro-Putin historian puts Stalin's death toll at 9 million.

If you again bother to read the article that was posted about British imperialism you can see how the British East India Company deliberately un-developed the sub-continent and as a result greatly increased the baseline mortality rate.

 

[Tanks]

Trump seems to be on self destruct mode.........

Donald Trump threatens NATO, says he would 'encourage' Russia to 'do whatever the hell they want'​

Donald Trump threatens NATO, says he would 'encourage' Russia to 'do whatever the hell they want'

Donald Trump again stirred fears about the future of NATO by suggesting he might not aid allies if they are attacked

www.usatoday.com

Former President Donald Trump again stirred fears about the future of NATO by suggesting he might not come to the aid of European nations if they're attacked by Russia − and might even "encourage" Russians "to do whatever the hell they want."

Trump, during a campaign rally in Conway, South Carolina, on Saturday said his decision, if he's elected again, would be based on whether NATO members are contributing enough to the foundational alliance. The former president said he made that very point during an international meeting that took place during his presidency.

“One of the presidents of a big country stood up and said, ‘Well sir, if we don’t pay and we’re attacked by Russia, will you protect us?’ I said, ‘You didn’t pay? You’re delinquent?’ He said, ‘Yes, let’s say that happened.’ No, I would not protect you."

Trump then added: "In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want."

At this point if the POTUS depended solely on my vote and I had to vote for one of the two candidates I would NOT be voting for Trump.

It is beginning to look like ramifications of a Trump presidency will be much worse than another 4 years of Biden.

The world and the country can recover from another four years of Biden, I don't think it can from four years of Trump. Not to mention he would poison the well further for many, many years for the GOP leading to Democrat dominance for decades to come.

 

[Red Leg]

At this point if the POTUS depended solely on my vote and I had to vote for one of the two candidates I would NOT be voting for Trump.

It is beginning to look like ramifications of a Trump presidency will be much worse than another 4 years of Biden.

The world and the country can recover from another four years of Biden, I don't think it can from four years of Trump. Not to mention he would poison the well further for many, many years for the GOP leading to Democrat dominance for decades to come.

Pretty much where my head has been for a while now. I'll likely simply vote down ticket and pray a majority in the senate can control either.

And ain't it the truth.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1752700131278033298

 

[Tundra Tiger]

 

[Randy F]

View attachment 586585

To add a little more humor, one of the researchers we work with on our farm is from China. He’s generally so focused on his projects that he rarely comments or participates at all in conversations ongoing around him. One day the subject of politics came up and after a lengthy discussion, he apparently felt the need to interject despite his admitted lack of interest or knowledge of the subject. You can imagine the stunned silence and turn of heads when he announced that “This will be a most important and very big erection!”

He laughed as hard as we did once he realized how it was interpreted. Great guy and wonderful to work with!

 

[Certus]

At this point if the POTUS depended solely on my vote and I had to vote for one of the two candidates I would NOT be voting for Trump.

It is beginning to look like ramifications of a Trump presidency will be much worse than another 4 years of Biden.

The world and the country can recover from another four years of Biden, I don't think it can from four years of Trump. Not to mention he would poison the well further for many, many years for the GOP leading to Democrat dominance for decades to come.

It’s just fear mongering. I saw an article declaring a Trump victory to be the end of democracy.

Just like they said in 2016. And yet nothing came to pass and the world kept on spinning. Chill, nothing will change too much.

 

[John Wasmuth]

If I don’t see it as it’s actually happening, and even then I’m skeptical, it’s not worth paying attention to. To many ways to manipulate whatever we are seeing via AI.

 

[Boyd Brooks]

 

[Certus]

View attachment 586596

I need the second more

 

[Tanks]

It’s just fear mongering. I saw an article declaring a Trump victory to be the end of democracy.

Just like they said in 2016. And yet nothing came to pass and the world kept on spinning. Chill, nothing will change too much.

So, what you are saying is that one should NOT believe anything Trump says? If one can not take a Presidential candidate at his word, then why should one vote for him?

 

[PARA45]

 

[fourfive8]

So, what you are saying is that one should NOT believe anything Trump says? If one can not take a Presidential candidate at his word, then why should one vote for him?

So I’m not to believe my eyes about what happened under 4 years of Trump compared to what is happening under 3 years of Brandon? What a load of crap! In what alternate universe is this history being written? Then again certain politically aligned oligarchs do tend to make a lot of money in corrupt governments.

 

[Tanks]

So I’m not to believe my eyes about what happened under Trump compared to what is happening under Brandon? What a load of crap! In what alternate universe is this history being written? Then again certain politically aligned oligarchs do tend to make a lot of money in corrupt governments.

Again, what we are discussing is Trump's own words in regard to foreign policy not the past. I'll take what is happening under Biden over what Trump SAYS he will do.

It is really interesting that the Trump fanbois dissect every comment Biden makes in order to put Biden in a bad light, but then tell everyone to ignore what Trump says.

 

[barryk]

Decisions between good and better are easy. The problem is between bad and worse, and as distasteful as ether option may be you really have to rise above personal thresholds and think sincerely about national interest. What will do the least damage? Nay, not national interests, but global, because the USA is the world leader. The world situation is hot right now, it may have been hotter in history past, but the reaction/consequence index is definitely higher now than ever before. Prevention is better than cure, and projection is hugely important towards prevention. I think out of the current bunch on either side Trump scores highest in this category. But if projection doesn’t work and you are forced into serious conflict then rapid sensible unemotional decisions are needed, and definitely Biden is worst equipped for that. So given both of the immediate choices on the bad and worse side of things my reasoned vote, if I had one, would have to be for Trump.

Kevin,
I agree.....Trump if he is selected. I don't vote personalities so much as what they achieve.....outcomes if you will. It doesn't matter who gets the Republican ticket....gutless and worthless as that party has been, they will get my vote. Marxist Trash and chaos has been the alternative. How can anyone argue with Energy Independence, National Security, holding people accountable, economics not based in chaos. Tell me this country is not headed for a bloodbath.....I hope not. What blithering stupidity we've seen since the Biden Administration took the reins.