Politics

[Mopani]

Maybe Trump is a Russian agent?…

Opinion | This Never Happened With an American President Before

Trump’s behavior in the Oval Office with Zelensky was an unparalleled break with American foreign policy.

www.nytimes.com

 

[LivingTheDream]

They went from September 2023 until April 2024 without US support thanks to the republican house.

Why didnt Biden use draw down authority at that time?

 

[mutedblade]

I don’t know anyone who thinks that everyone I know believes Russia is a massive global threat and should be opposed at every turn.

According to Red Leg, Russia is a shell of it's former self because of the tenacity and fortitude of those brave Ukrainians. They had no help in doing so for the past year (again, according to him), so if they're doing all that without our help already, then WHY come to the Oval Office to get Uncle Sugar involved again?

Everyone I know (retirees, farmers and heavy construction workers that work in the DC metro area) have absolutely no desire to keep sending their tax dollars to have another proxy war with Russia. If Russia was the boogeyman everyone claims, then I'm fairly certain the rest of Europe would have gotten together by now to lay some hate on 'em!

 

[CJW]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand he's done.

If I were Zelensky, I would be seriously thinking about a plan B or plan C right about now.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1895645387437875488

Did Zelensky really demand US ground troops? First I've heard of it.

Rubio looks like a bored little kid wanting to go home to get out of that suit.

 

[Pondoro]

Zelensky told Trump and Vance the truth, but they cant handle the truth.. Instead they started the shitstorm that we all witnessed.

Trump only want credit for orchestrating a peace and subsequently leave the rest to Europe. Then he will brag about making peace..and push all commitement and cost on to Europe. If that is not enough he demand to exploit a war ridden country of their resources.

Trump will not commit USA to secure Ukraine. A peace treaty without a military promise is worth nada.

Why on earth should Z sign something like this..? Before a deal on military security is on the table..?

That is what Z tried to tell them in the Oval Room..instead they kept on humiliating him.

Z has repetedly thanked USA for the support.. For the last 3 years. He has nothing to apologize, sans perhaps that he should wear a black suit visiting The White House..

 

[GuttormG]

Guess Trump has managed to do what Soviet/Russia has tried for 75 years, break up NATO.

Hopefully USA can come up with better candidates for their next election but the relationship with Europe is probably damaged beyond repair, EU will evolve quickly to a "suoerstare" with a common military.

 

[gbflyer]

Imagine this. You are president of the USA. Another country invades and holds most of California, Arizona and Texas. Unspeakable atrocities and war crimes are being visited upon your citizens. Another democratic country has been helping you with grants of old-stock weapons. After three years this terrible situation they say, ‘Here’s a deal. Give us control of your valuable minerals and ports, give up the rest of those states and stop resisting your invader,’ just when they’re worn out, by the way. They offer no assurance of further help if you are attacked again, which is highly likely given the aggressor has declared this intention.

Would you agree to that?

I wouldn’t.

You forgot the part about California, Arizona and Texas are separatists and you as the USA have been bombing your own countrymen for a couple years ahead of time.

 

[TTundra]

Trump will not commit USA to secure Ukraine. A peace treaty without a military promise is worth nada.

That is what Z tried to tell them in the Oval Room..instead they kept on humiliating him.

I think so many are only looking at this from their perspectives. Try some of us in the US...

Were tired of wars. I'm 38 and 20 years of my life the US was at war. I'm tired of spending trillions of dollars (yes, TRILLIONS) of US dollars on foreign wars, sending 10s of thousands to their death, some of my friends included. Having to always be on the lookout for homeland attacks that take billions of dollars and more lives to prevent.

Zelensky would have had a deal (that was already negotiated mind you) that likely would have ended the war in a win-win for both countries, stopped Russia, and lay groundwork for new jobs and projects for generations of Ukrainians. He insisted amending that deal which illustrates his inability to take emotion out of best interests for his country. Add additional deals later, but just get this first one done.

His Ambassadors face says it all as she realized his actions will.now cost hundreds if not thousands of more lives.


Anyone can complain at what was said, however, this was Zelenskys deal to sign or sink. He chose the latter.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Zelenskyy stated last night that the deal is still being worked behind the scenes. And he still wants the mineral deal.
It was apparent that he sees himself on equal footing as Trump.

Zelenskyy has had a pretty rough 3 years so he could be cut some slack for overplaying his position.

I don’t agree that it was the best negotiation strategy.
But. I respect his balls to go against everyone sitting in that room. And deep down Trump respects his tenacity also.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Zelensky told Trump and Vance the truth, but they cant handle the truth.. Instead they started the shitstorm that we all witnessed.

Zelensky lied. This is the second time he has said something in private and then did an about face in front of the cameras.

I follow a lot of Ukrainian chats and blogs, Z attitude and disrespect is nothing new and it pretty much their attitude.

 

[Pondoro]

I think so many are only looking at this from their perspectives. Try some of us in the US...

Were tired of wars. I'm 38 and 20 years of my life the US was at war. I'm tired of spending trillions of dollars (yes, TRILLIONS) of US dollars on foreign wars, sending 10s of thousands to their death, some of my friends included. Having to always be on the lookout for homeland attacks that take billions of dollars and more lives to prevent.

Zelensky would have had a deal (that was already negotiated mind you) that likely would have ended the war in a win-win for both countries, stopped Russia, and lay groundwork for new jobs and projects for generations of Ukrainians. He insisted amending that deal which illustrates his inability to take emotion out of best interests for his country. Add additional deals later, but just get this first one done.

His Ambassadors face says it all as she realized his actions will.now cost hundreds if not thousands of more lives.


Anyone can complain at what was said, however, this was Zelenskys deal to sign or sink. He chose the latter.

I get your point of wars and expenditure, of both money and lives..

But the win - win you mention is primarily for Russia. And where is the deal from USA on military support, that Z is begging for..? And the serious talks with Russia has not even begun. Wait a bit and see what demands Putin has. Civilian americans present in Ukraine in some mining operation is not the guarantee Ukraine need.

 

[MauserM03Blog]

According to Red Leg, Russia is a shell of it's former self because of the tenacity and fortitude of those brave Ukrainians. They had no help in doing so for the past year (again, according to him), so if they're doing all that without our help already, then WHY come to the Oval Office to get Uncle Sugar involved again?

Everyone I know (retirees, farmers and heavy construction workers that work in the DC metro area) have absolutely no desire to keep sending their tax dollars to have another proxy war with Russia. If Russia was the boogeyman everyone claims, then I'm fairly certain the rest of Europe would have gotten together by now to lay some hate on 'em!

Umm, … have you not been watching?

Putin is implementing a long plan to destabilise Europe, America and NATO, using democracy and free speech against democracies, so Russia can invade and take as much of Europe as possible.

First, make Russia an example of a white, Christian, racist, anti-gay nation. At the same time, establish a mafia state, for control and gathering enormous assets for use later.

Second, destabilise Middle East and African nations, to drive immigration into Europe. Assist autocrats and criminals in South America, to drive immigration into the US.

Thirdly, fund the development of right-wing, anti-immigration parties in Europe and America, which admire and wish to emulate the racist, white, Christian mirage Russia has created. Use the free speech of democracies to get deep agents into positions of power.

Fourthly, invade Ukraine, smash it up, terrorise its civilians, grab its resources and people for use in future campaigns. Threaten other nations with similar treatment if they don’t capitulate or stand aside.

Seeing this happen with no fucks given by the US, China invades Taiwan and the rest of South East Asia, North Korea nukes South Korea and Israel and Iran nuke each other. America fades into obscurity with eggs costing 10 Musk-coins for half a dozen.

This is not the outline for a novel. It’s happening right before your eyes. You just need to open them.

I’m as far away from these events as a person can be, but I care and want to see Russia stopped. Do you care?

 

[lwaters]

There's nothing new here. It's just another war that we financed got a ton of people killed. Then the administration changes or whatever and we pull out. We've been doing this ever since world War 2. I think the rest of the world may be figuring this out and we will be left alone.

 

[Red Leg]

Why didnt Biden use draw down authority at that time?

Draw down isn't free. All of that equipment has a value that has to be charged against the an appropriation. All that equipment has to be prepped, inspected, and made combat ready which also has to be charged. Finally, it has to be shipped, and that too has to be charged against an appropriation. For over six months, thanks to the republican congress, there was no appropriation against which those costs could be charged

 

[TTundra]

I get your point of wars and expenditure, of both money and lives..

But the win - win you mention is primarily for Russia. And where is the deal from USA on military support, that Z is begging for..? And the serious talks with Russia has not even begun. Wait a bit and see what demands Putin has. Civilian americans present in Ukraine in some mining operation is not the guarantee Ukraine need.

This is the same thinking of Zelensky.

What does Ukraine get?

Peace

US personal and companies on the ground that Trump will fiercely protect and Putin knows this.

Technology and infrastructure investment to move materials. All of which the Ukrainian government and civilian companies have access to that can now be used to mine, refine, and export to a host of other countries tries.

Titanium and Lithium are in such demand outside of China that Ukraine is literally sitting on Trillions of dollars worth of investment and exports and they just need a partner to access it



As for Putins demand? No Ukraine admittance to Nato. Ok, won't be needed with the amount of US interest there.

And thus just to start. Once the US has more infrastructure there, developments to Ukraine agriculture are sure to follow.

Edit: it's noted that Ukraine has an unfortunate geographical proximity and border to Russia amd their intertwined history. Nothing can be done there until Russia allies itself with the west, so Ukraine has to have more concessions that others. It's just the hand that's been dealt.

 

[Pondoro]

This is the same thinking of Zelensky.

What does Ukraine get?

Peace

US personal and companies on the ground that Trump will fiercely protect and Putin knows this.

Technology and infrastructure investment to move materials. All of which the Ukrainian government and civilian companies have access to that can now be used to mine, refine, and export to a host of other countries tries.

Titanium and Lithium are in such demand outside of China that Ukraine is literally sitting on Trillions of dollars worth of investment and exports and they just need a partner to access it



As for Putins demand? No Ukraine admittance to Nato. Ok, won't be needed with the amount of US interest there.

And thus just to start. Once the US has more infrastructure there, developments to Ukraine agriculture are sure to follow.

You may be right in some of what you say here..but as I said, we have yet to see Putin´s full demands for peace..

 

[mutedblade]

Umm, … have you not been watching?

Putin is implementing a long plan to destabilise Europe, America and NATO, using democracy and free speech against democracies, so Russia can invade and take as much of Europe as possible.

First, make Russia an example of a white, Christian, racist, anti-gay nation. At the same time, establish a mafia state, for control and gathering enormous assets for use later.

Second, destabilise Middle East and African nations, to drive immigration into Europe. Assist autocrats and criminals in South America, to drive immigration into the US.

Thirdly, fund the development of right-wing, anti-immigration parties in Europe and America, which admire and wish to emulate the racist, white, Christian mirage Russia has created. Use the free speech of democracies to get deep agents into positions of power.

Fourthly, invade Ukraine, smash it up, terrorise its civilians, grab its resources and people for use in future campaigns. Threaten other nations with similar treatment if they don’t capitulate or stand aside.

Seeing this happen with no fucks given by the US, China invades Taiwan and the rest of South East Asia, North Korea nukes South Korea and Israel and Iran nuke each other. America fades into obscurity with eggs costing 10 Musk-coins for half a dozen.

This is not the outline for a novel. It’s happening right before your eyes. You just need to open them.

I’m as far away from these events as a person can be, but I care and want to see Russia stopped. Do you care?

So, you're one of those that believe everything white, anti-gay, anti-illegal immigration is Right Wing and racist? Sure sounds like you watch a lot of CNN down there in Australia.

 

[TTundra]

You may be right in some of what you say here..but as I said, we have yet to see Putin´s full demands for peace..

I'm no political strategist. However, as some want to ridicule Trump and Vance, I believe Putin prefers Zelenskys ego to stay strong as he at least is smart enough to not test Trump's when it's in his favor.

Putins demands will wait and/or be tailored to the mistakes he sees Zelensky make.

 

[Pondoro]

" A russian is a russian..even if you fry him in butter " Finnish colonel

 

[Wheels]

Zelensky told Trump and Vance the truth, but they cant handle the truth.. Instead they started the shitstorm that we all witnessed.

Trump only want credit for orchestrating a peace and subsequently leave the rest to Europe. Then he will brag about making peace..and push all commitement and cost on to Europe. If that is not enough he demand to exploit a war ridden country of their resources.

Trump will not commit USA to secure Ukraine. A peace treaty without a military promise is worth nada.

Why on earth should Z sign something like this..? Before a deal on military security is on the table..?

That is what Z tried to tell them in the Oval Room..instead they kept on humiliating him.

Z has repetedly thanked USA for the support.. For the last 3 years. He has nothing to apologize, sans perhaps that he should wear a black suit visiting The White House..

Zelensky had agreed to the deal. Otherwise there would have been no meeting at the White House for the signing. If Zelensky wanted to push another term or two last minute into the deal and change the agreement, the time for that was in private. Zelensky chose to force Trump's hand by doing it in front of the media. Something he may have been able to get away with if he was dealing with Biden, Blinken and Sullivan. Zelensky overplayed his hand and was publicly reprimanded.

According to Bessent, this is the third time Zelensky has blown up the deal. First was when Bessent went to Kiev to sign it and Zelensky reneged. Second was in Munich with Rubio where Zelensky reneged again. Third was yesterdays shenanigan. This is all on Zelensky. If he didn't like the deal he shouldn't have agreed to it and gone to the meeting.