Politics

[Brent in Az]

Most of us have opinions on tariffs. Mine go back to macro and micro classes and learning about Smoot Hawley etc. in college. The Trump tariffs fly in the face of much of what I was taught.

What we do know is that over the decades countries have continued to add tariffs on America and in the interest of free trade, America hasn't responded. This has led to a hollowing out of America's manufacturing base and middle class. If not corrected this will ultimately lead to a country of haves and have nots. If that happens America will disintegrate internally. Many of us that hunt in Africa (AH) or aspire to, fall into the haves and probably don't notice what has happened to the rest of our fellow countrymen over the past thirty years unless we purposely get out of our enclaves and comfort zones.

Currently the entire trade situation is rotten at the expense of America and Americans. The Trump economic tariffs, evidently one half of what other countries are putting on America is long overdue.

Many American's initial reaction is just one side of the equation. Oh no, I now have to pay X% more for a product I use, while failing to consider how many nations will get in line and drop their tariffs allowing for American business to grow their exports.

None of us know for sure how these tariffs will work out in the end. What we do know is that the economic tariffs have been unbalanced for decades and this is a long overdue step in remediation. The old system was outdated, putrid and broken. Is there going to be pain and turmoil, definitely. No leader in my lifetime has given a second thought about addressing these issues prior to Trump. I for one am willing to see this through and give it a chance to reset international trade.

Let's hope the non U.S citizens here wailing about tariffs read this carefully......and grasp the concept.

More robust tariffs can also help reduce inflation.

 

[Tanks]

Many American's initial reaction is just one side of the equation. Oh no, I now have to pay X% more for a product I use, while failing to consider how many nations will get in line and drop their tariffs allowing for American business to grow their exports.

Well, I am one of them. I saw this coming last Friday, so ordered a Hasselblad XCD 90mm f/2.5 V Lens then instead of waiting. The announced tariffs for Japan are 24%. On a $4,300 lens that is an extra $1,032 plus the extra sales tax on the increase.

My Rigby double might cost an extra 10% when it arrives in a few months, that will hurt.

 

[BonUm16]

Most of us have opinions on tariffs. Mine go back to macro and micro classes and learning about Smoot Hawley etc. in college. The Trump tariffs fly in the face of much of what I was taught.

What we do know is that over the decades countries have continued to add tariffs on America and in the interest of free trade, America hasn't responded. This has led to a hollowing out of America's manufacturing base and middle class. If not corrected this will ultimately lead to a country of haves and have nots. If that happens America will disintegrate internally. Many of us that hunt in Africa (AH) or aspire to, fall into the haves and probably don't notice what has happened to the rest of our fellow countrymen over the past thirty years unless we purposely get out of our enclaves and comfort zones.

Currently the entire trade situation is rotten at the expense of America and Americans. The Trump economic tariffs, evidently one half of what other countries are putting on America is long overdue.

Many American's initial reaction is just one side of the equation. Oh no, I now have to pay X% more for a product I use, while failing to consider how many nations will get in line and drop their tariffs allowing for American business to grow their exports.

None of us know for sure how these tariffs will work out in the end. What we do know is that the economic tariffs have been unbalanced for decades and this is a long overdue step in remediation. The old system was outdated, putrid and broken. Is there going to be pain and turmoil, definitely. No leader in my lifetime has given a second thought about addressing these issues prior to Trump. I for one am willing to see this through and give it a chance to reset international trade.

 

[spike.t]

Seems they used a complicated equation to come up with the tariffs....

Trump tariffs live updates: US stock market plunges after Trump tariff announcement as Canada retaliates

As big brands' share prices drop, the White House tells Wall Street to "trust in President Trump".

www.bbc.com

 

[Hank2211]

Liberation Day!

The freak out by many over tariffs by some will undoubtedly continue.

This is Trump resetting the ‘stakes’ of a negotiation. Think about it, most negotiations start from the current agreement and he’s blowing them up. I wouldn’t want to negotiate against this guy because there is no bluffing, he will do what he threatens and he’s doing it.

Will it do more harm than good? Who knows, I certainly don’t. But the end game is free trade and removal of high tariffs against our goods, as well as more Mfg here, plus some other things he wants like fentanyl stopped and better border security.

He’s literally in 100% negotiation mode all the time. For those with TDS, understanding that may help with your symptoms but unfortunately I know you aren’t (or can’t) listen to such comment

We'll have to see how it all works out..

I think Carney would be committing economic suicide... I adhere to Kevin O'leary's point of view..

Whether Canada likes it or not, 75% of all of its international trade is with the US and has been more for than 100 years. 17 states in particular do the overwhelming majority of that trade.

The EU doesn't have the economic ability (or desire) to pick up that 75%.. There is very little that Canada isn't exporting to the US that the EU doesn't already have suppliers for.. and most of those suppliers are other EU countries..

Canada's three largest exports are energy (crude oil and petroleum gas), motor vehicles and parts (largely for US make/model vehicles), and metal ores and minerals..

EU doesn't have the correct refineries to work with Canadian crude.. so the EU isn't an option there.. there is a very small appetite for American make/model vehicles in Europe.. so most of those items arent going to the EU.. and Europe is for the most part dealing with each other for the primary ores that Canada exports to the US, not to mention some of the ores, like potashe doesn't have enough value per metric ton to make it worth shipping the great distance to Europe (you can move it by train or truck and make money.. but you're not going to truck/train it to the coast and then put it on a cargo ship and have any margin left)..

People can live on anger for so long.. sooner or later Canadians are going to need to feed their families..

I completely get Canadian sentiment.. but being sold a bill of goods that simply doesn't measure up to the facts and figures by politicians doesn't maintain the economy..

What will make it increasingly bad for Canada is if they are the last country to try to come to the table (because the politicians have sold a bad bill of goods and the CBC has people acting out of anger rather and than thinking through the facts).. Once deals are made with the Mexicans, Europeans, Japanese, Chinese, etc.. there will be far less need/desire for Canaidan goods that compete with those other countries products (like Mexican made auto parts)..

Canada could be late to the party because they thought they had a trade agreement with the US, the USMCA, which replaced NAFTA. At the time that agreement was entered into, the then President of the US, when signing it, said this: “The USMCA is the fairest, most balanced, and beneficial trade agreement we have ever signed into law. It’s the best agreement we’ve ever made. . . “

So forgive us poor naive northerners who thought that perhaps the US would honour its agreements, especially one of the fairest ever signed into law.

Live and learn.

 

[mdwest]

I can't get it to work but found it on YouTube. Playbook answers, nothing more.

Listen, don't get me wrong, I agree with the general message: We are unfairly being taken advantage of.

With that being said, do you pick a fight with the 10 schoolyard bullies all at the same time? Or do you pick your battles and fight them each at a convenient, and advantageous, time?

Bad strategy, at a bad time. Problem is, he's got a little over 3.5 years to get this done.

One viewpoint is: Get this over right away, so people forget about it come next election when we hope to elect another GOP leader.

Other viewpoint is: It's hurry-up and do too much at a very, very inconvenient time.

I think the issue is Lutnick isn't picking the fight(s).. he's simply being sent in to throw the punches and get results.. the media not liking him because he sticks to talking points and playbook answers is sort of ridiculous.. of course he's going to do that.. that's what he is supposed to do..

what matters with Lutnick is whether or not he is the right guy to get the job done that Trump has assigned him...

I'd love for Rachael, Tucker, Cramer, or any other media personality to show us a better option..

Lutnicks career and successes speak for themselves..

the medias opinion on how he responds to the task Trump gives him is something I find zero value in..

 

[mdwest]

Canada could be late to the party because they thought they had a trade agreement with the US, the USMCA, which replaced NAFTA. At the time that agreement was entered into, the then President of the US, when signing it, said this: “The USMCA is the fairest, most balanced, and beneficial trade agreement we have ever signed into law. It’s the best agreement we’ve ever made. . . “

So forgive us poor naive northerners who thought that perhaps the US would honour its agreements, especially one of the fairest ever signed into law.

Live and learn.

I think what has to be forgiven is the naive northerners that arent aware of all of the information and spout incorrect assertions..

USMCA is still 100% in effect.. Lutnick and Trump have both confirmed this as recently as this morning (and stated it yesterday as well)... the auto parts trade is unimpacted by the tariffs.. oil is unimpacted by the tariffs.. etc.. if the item is addressed by USMCA that item has been left alone and will continue to be addressed by USMCA.. The US is honoring its USMCA agreement..

its everything else that is impacted..

 

[Wheels]

Canada could be late to the party because they thought they had a trade agreement with the US, the USMCA, which replaced NAFTA. At the time that agreement was entered into, the then President of the US, when signing it, said this: “The USMCA is the fairest, most balanced, and beneficial trade agreement we have ever signed into law. It’s the best agreement we’ve ever made. . . “

So forgive us poor naive northerners who thought that perhaps the US would honour its agreements, especially one of the fairest ever signed into law.

Live and learn.

There are exemptions within USMCA. It is my understanding Trump is using "National Emergency under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act". Agree or disagree, attorneys get paid to create such contingencies in contracts and all countries do it including Canada.

Edit: This is related to the 25% tariffs on illegals and drugs issue, as I understand it.

 

[Hank2211]

I think what has to be forgiven is the naive northerners that arent aware of all of the information and spout incorrect assertions..

USMCA is still 100% in effect.. Lutnick and Trump have both confirmed this as recently as this morning (and stated it yesterday as well)... the auto parts trade is unimpacted by the tariffs.. oil is unimpacted by the tariffs.. etc.. if the item is addressed by USMCA that item has been left alone and will continue to be addressed by USMCA.. The US is honoring its USMCA agreement..

its everything else that is impacted..

Seriously?

 

[mdwest]

Seriously?

seriously..

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump-tariffs-trade-war-stock-market-04-03-2025/card/usmca-exemption-continues-for-canada-mexico-white-house-says-cvY33iuXO9oFoUsGNCTC

Why Canada and Mexico are missing from Trump's tariff chart

Donald Trump's latest round of tariffs had two notable omissions: Mexico and Canada. But the two nations are still subject to preexisting tariffs.

www.businessinsider.com

Canada spared new tariffs as Trump hits China, Europe; Carney says Canadians still impacted

Canada and Mexico were excluded from the countries facing new tariffs ranging from 10 per cent to 49 per cent.

nationalpost.com

 

[Hank2211]

There are exemptions within USMCA. It is my understanding Trump is using "National Emergency under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act". Agree or disagree, attorneys get paid to create such contingencies in contracts and all countries do it including Canada.

How much fentanyl (the excuse for attacking Canada) do you think enters the US through Canada every year?

Latest figures from the US government: 1/10 of 1%. More fentanyl enters Canada from the US than the other way around. Yet, again we poor Canadians think that a sovereign country protects its own borders. It doesn’t ask other countries to protect them. Again, what percentage of illegal migration enters the US through Canada? Less than 1%. And again, a sovereign country protects its own borders; it doesn’t demand other countries protect them.

Enough of either to constitute a national emergency? Not even a lawyer could make that argument with a straight face.

If you want to see an emergency, try losing 4.3MM barrels of oil a day from your supply. And before you go on to say that Canada couldn’t live without those exports, I’d suggest Canada could live without them for longer than the US could live without the imports. Of course, there’s always Venezuela waiting to supply the California refineries with heavy oil . . .

What’s wrong with working together to find common solutions to common problems? A lot, apparently.

 

[Tanks]

...
More robust tariffs can also help reduce inflation.

Please explain how increasing costs of everything imported helps reduce inflation.

If something was costing $100 and now costs $125 that is reducing inflation? By definition inflation is a gradual loss of purchasing power that is reflected in a broad rise in prices for goods and services over time.

Seems to me the tariffs will do the opposite as it is an increase on cost of goods. But again, please explain how this works.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Please explain how increasing costs of everything imported helps reduce inflation.

If something was costing $100 and now costs $125 that is reducing inflation? By definition inflation is a gradual loss of purchasing power that is reflected in a broad rise in prices for goods and services over time.

Seems to me the tariffs will do the opposite as it is an increase on cost of goods. But again, please explain how this works.

Um.... don't hold your breath waiting for an answer? An unintelligent snarky comment, sure.

 

[Hank2211]

seriously..

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/trump-tariffs-trade-war-stock-market-04-03-2025/card/usmca-exemption-continues-for-canada-mexico-white-house-says-cvY33iuXO9oFoUsGNCTC

Why Canada and Mexico are missing from Trump's tariff chart

Donald Trump's latest round of tariffs had two notable omissions: Mexico and Canada. But the two nations are still subject to preexisting tariffs.

www.businessinsider.com

Canada spared new tariffs as Trump hits China, Europe; Carney says Canadians still impacted

Canada and Mexico were excluded from the countries facing new tariffs ranging from 10 per cent to 49 per cent.

nationalpost.com

I can cite just as many which state the contrary, as well as a cursory glance at the agreement itself.

But it may be sufficient to say that the US Senate doesn’t agree with you . . . But I guess the Democrats control that . . . Oops, my bad . . . It’s controlled by the Republicans.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

 

[HookMeUpII]

How much fentanyl (the excuse for attacking Canada) do you think enters the US through Canada every year?

Latest figures from the US government: 1/10 of 1%. More fentanyl enters Canada from the US than the other way around. Yet, again we poor Canadians think that a sovereign country protects its own borders. It doesn’t ask other countries to protect them. Again, what percentage of illegal migration enters the US through Canada? Less than 1%. And again, a sovereign country protects its own borders; it doesn’t demand other countries protect them.

Enough of either to constitute a national emergency? Not even a lawyer could make that argument with a straight face.

If you want to see an emergency, try losing 4.3MM barrels of oil a day from your supply. And before you go on to say that Canada couldn’t live without those exports, I’d suggest Canada could live without them for longer than the US could live without the imports. Of course, there’s always Venezuela waiting to supply the California refineries with heavy oil . . .

What’s wrong with working together to find common solutions to common problems? A lot, apparently.

Those are really rough figures and likely higher because that's what's actually caught. The northern border, is in fact, the least secure. Fentanyl is a problem in and unto itself because a finger nail size amount is enough to kill a room full of people a few times over. So all it takes is a couple backpacks full making it into the USA to kill 1000's of people.

Now that brings into question "Why aren't we addressing the addiction problem here?" That's a tricky one and I do believe we are not doing enough. This all stems back to the country being run by big pharma and we are the largest consumer of pharmaceuticals world wide. Don't want to go down that rabbit hole now. However, what's going on is an alcoholic (USA) is getting delivered cases of beer (Mexico and Canada) by a buddy who knows that the person is an alcoholic.

It's too complicated of a problem. I will say, the news stories that get buried are often pretty big ones. They get buried because the news media doesn't like Trump. For example:

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/12/china-says-its-willing-to-cooperate-with-the-us-on-fentanyl.html

Now, its China...who knows what they actually do. Probably 25%, if that, of what they say they will.

Is it a valid excuse to go scorched earth? I don't think so. This is heavy, heavy posturing to get other countries to the table. As I said before, I don't really agree with it. There's a trade imbalance for sure. Like I said earlier, too much, too fast at too inconvenient of a time for us. I really do not think we are economically poised to be doing this much right at the moment.

I said earlier, I would have picked and chose what countries to start this with first vs. just going all at once at everyone.

 

[Scott CWO]

Trump used trade deficits in the calculations and calls them tariffs???

How the heck does the Trump Administration or anyone expect the USA to not have trade deficits, especially with smaller or poorer countries? This is a red herring. Of course we import more from other countries. We are the largest economy in the world by a large margin. For an example, how is Viet Nam supposed to buy as much from us as we buy from them? Stupid!

I am all for bringing manufacturing back to the USA. It was a mistake to allow USA based companies to move manufacturing overseas and gut the middle class to keep prices lower than they should be on goods. Part of the blame should also be on the unions. Many years ago, I was forced to be a union member so before someone attacks me for bashing unions, think twice. No one deserves $100k a year to snap parts together or be a cashier at a Safeway grocery store.

 

[Vintageguy]

About 5 years ago I was sitting with my sister and my mom. We had a conversation about investments after a real estate sale for a decent windfall. We had a meeting at our banker's office the next day. I suggested gold and talked them into it even though the banker was not fully aboard. It was a tad over $1500 at the time. I am seeing my sister today, I think dinner is on her.

A year ago I had a financial advisor tell me I was foolish for holding physical gold and I should sell it. This was our first and last meeting. Glad I did not follow his advice.

 

[Red Leg]

Please explain how increasing costs of everything imported helps reduce inflation.

If something was costing $100 and now costs $125 that is reducing inflation? By definition inflation is a gradual loss of purchasing power that is reflected in a broad rise in prices for goods and services over time.

Seems to me the tariffs will do the opposite as it is an increase on cost of goods. But again, please explain how this works.

I think its called MAGA math. Higher costs equal a higher consumer price index (CPI) which equals lower inflation. Who knew? Just believe it, and it must be true.

 

[HookMeUpII]

A year ago I had a financial advisor tell me I was foolish for holding physical gold and I should sell it. This was our first and last meeting. Glad I did not follow his advice.

I try not to give out physical advice online but that's a complicated argument. Are you holding $50k-$60k worth? Or are you holding $500k+ worth?

We had a client who was the latter. It took him years, upon years to unload it all. I met with him recently and funny enough, I asked him how he made out with all that. He did really well but said the amount of work it took to get rid of it all, he wouldn't do again.

Back in 2010 we had people reaching out to us looking to broker deals on large amounts. That went away, rather quick come like 2012 and on.

It's part of a portfolio, not the whole portfolio.