Realistic level of accuracy from doubles?

[Ukstalker.375]

https://www.rebelgunworks.com.au/products/rws-375-299gr-cone-point-50pk
And som assistance from someone down under.

View attachment 200620

It's nice to know they're out there.....somewhere.... Sadly though they can't be shipped from Australia to the UK.... shame!!!!

 

[Ukstalker.375]

Thank you for sharing the image. Unfortunately, there's too much noise in the signal to discern a path forward (not knowing which hole is from which barrel makes it impossible to know what to do).

Im in agreement with the comment of another, which is to consult Paul Roberts.

Totally agree, I knew there was little point posting the photo but it did demonstrate the scale of the spread of bullets I was getting at least, but appreciate you can't actually glean anything from it!

 

[AZDAVE]

Good evening. First when you shoot at the range are you resting the forend on the bags or your hand? Doubles are intended to be shot in hand and if shot off the bench like a bolt gun it will mess with your grouping. Second do you reload? Do you know what the basic ballistics of the rounds the rifle was regulated with? If you reload buy Graeme Wright's "Shooting British double Rifle" read it several times and start working a regulation load. If you don't reload get the same book and read it several times as it has a ton of just good double rifle info. One thing to look for in trying to find factory rounds that will shoot close to what your rifle was regulated for. Look at the bullet and try and find a different factory bullet that has a similar shape and that has a similar bearing surface so that at the same speed as the regulation rounds you will get a similar dwell time down the barrel, and should be in the same plain of recoil when the bullet leaves the rifle. My chapuis 9.3x74 with the factory loads regulates to 2 in at 50meters. To get A-frames to regulate due to different length bearing surface and several other factors I had to push the bullet 75fps faster than factory to get the same level of accuracy. It was also the same in my 450NE. Double can be a fickle beast but once you get the right combo you will love shooting it.

 

[Ukstalker.375]

I did a variety, a mix of shooting off shooting sticks as I would largely expect to in field conditions and from a standing position using a front sand bag as a rest, I'll see if I can find the book you refer to, it sounds da interesting, thank you.
It's really no surprise I didn't get lucky first time round, the ammo was 270gr fed when I know it was regulated on 299gr RWS so it's hardly surprising, I can only hope that the 300gr fed I have on order (which I was told the former owner of the gun used to good effect) will be a close enough match to the regulated round, only time and experimenting will tell!

 

[norfolk shooter]

I did a variety, a mix of shooting off shooting sticks as I would largely expect to in field conditions and from a standing position using a front sand bag as a rest, I'll see if I can find the book you refer to, it sounds da interesting, thank you.
It's really no surprise I didn't get lucky first time round, the ammo was 270gr fed when I know it was regulated on 299gr RWS so it's hardly surprising, I can only hope that the 300gr fed I have on order (which I was told the former owner of the gun used to good effect) will be a close enough match to the regulated round, only time and experimenting will tell!

Hi mate I'm only over in Norfolk and have loading dies etc for 375h&h as I load for my own. Paul knows a lot about doubles IMHO more than kynoch dare I say. Kynoch use reloaded Swiss powder it's readily available from local sources. If you email rws they will send you the spec for the round then all you need to do is find out how much powder you need to get the 300grn pill going at that speed. I don't mind helping you out with this.

 

[Opposite Pole]

Target with 4 holes - 470 N.E. offhand 50m, the other target same rifle with 9.3x74R barrels again 50m offhand. If you look at the 470 target you can see two black stickers, that's also 9.3x74R.

 

[Ukstalker.375]

Hi mate I'm only over in Norfolk and have loading dies etc for 375h&h as I load for my own. Paul knows a lot about doubles IMHO more than kynoch dare I say. Kynoch use reloaded Swiss powder it's readily available from local sources. If you email rws they will send you the spec for the round then all you need to do is find out how much powder you need to get the 300grn pill going at that speed. I don't mind helping you out with this.

Thanks
Where abouts are you? Probably my biggest issue with developing a load is having the range access to do load tests so as unlikely as it may be I'd love to stumble magically upon that factory round which just works, I'll see how the 300gr federal work when they arrive as they were supposedly shooting well theoigh this before so you never know. I ditched reloading as I just can't be bothered with it and don't have that kind of mindset, but do still have 2 sets of dies and some powder......

 

[norfolk shooter]

I'm near Downham Market. If your a BDS member there is a monthly practise shoot at Euston Hall and they dont have a calibre restriction but you have to use expanding. If the federals work well then the load development is done for you. Just get some 300 grn SGK and load them up for practising. To be honest your going to need a fair amount practise and the reloading will pay for itself after one range session. Feel free to PM me

 

[Ukstalker.375]

Good evening. First when you shoot at the range are you resting the forend on the bags or your hand? Doubles are intended to be shot in hand and if shot off the bench like a bolt gun it will mess with your grouping.

I'm intrigued by this, it's not the first time I've heard it said but it seems to not make a great deal of sense in reality, what difference will there be to my hand cushioning the fore end of the rifle vs a sandbag or rest?
The amount of videos Ive watched of people shooting doubles using sticks to shoot off would beg to differ, and also know that the likes of Westley Richards and other double manufacturers use rests and bags in the regulation process to support the rifle, so if it's good enough for them for the purposes of regulation, why on earth wouldn't it work for little ol' me?

 

[AZDAVE]

@Ukstalker.375 Good question and the answer I can provide is with my first double I was trying to get it to shoot and it was like 4 shots into 8 inches (20CM) at 50. The gent that got me on the slippery road to doubles said basically what I put in the quoted response. So I took my sticks to the range rested my hand on top of the sticks and shot 4 rounds into have that size. That double was also a sabatti from the first batch to the US so I was also concerned with the barrel grinding that several had, but not the one I had, I was able to work a 2.5 in (6.25 CM) group at 50 before my hunting buddy talked me into selling it to him. So I have always shot off sticks or a standing bench with my hand under the forearm on all my other doubles. Hopefully someone can comment on how they have gotten a double to shoot off a solid rest. For me it just takes one of the many variables to get a double to shoot well out of the equation.

 

[CTDolan]

I'm intrigued by this, it's not the first time I've heard it said but it seems to not make a great deal of sense in reality, what difference will there be to my hand cushioning the fore end of the rifle vs a sandbag or rest?
The amount of videos Ive watched of people shooting doubles using sticks to shoot off would beg to differ, and also know that the likes of Westley Richards and other double manufacturers use rests and bags in the regulation process to support the rifle, so if it's good enough for them for the purposes of regulation, why on earth wouldn't it work for little ol' me?

It's all to do with how the rifle recoils. It's not the cushioning of the hand so much as the weight of the arm. Likewise with standing versus sitting. The body rolls more from a standing position, affecting how the rifle moves under recoil (in that moment when the bullet is still traversing the bore).

This is all to do with regulating a rifle to shoot as it will be generally used in the field (optimizing the process). In reality, as you know, a rifle may be shot from many positions (and, in Africa, the first shot will pretty much always be off the sticks).

 

[CTDolan]

This is true with all rifles, of course, but the important distinction with regard with a double is that each barrel reacts to the shot differently, the right (from a right-handed shooter) recoiling more up and to the right than the left (in this regard an over/under is less of a problem).

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

It's all to do with how the rifle recoils. It's not the cushioning of the hand so much as the weight of the arm. Likewise with standing versus sitting. The body rolls more from a standing position, affecting how the rifle moves under recoil (in that moment when the bullet is still traversing the bore).

This is all to do with regulating a rifle to shoot as it will be generally used in the field (optimizing the process). In reality, as you know, a rifle may be shot from many positions (and, in Africa, the first shot will pretty much always be off the sticks).

So when regulating, which seems like load development to me unless using the loads the rifle was regulated with, do you recommend only shooting off the sticks? If so, do you rest the forearm in the "V" or do you put your hand in the "V" with the forearm on this hand?

 

[norfolk shooter]

If you keep having problems with it I have a lovely A Francotte 375 H&H best bolt action rifle we can do a deal with

 

[Ukstalker.375]

If you keep having problems with it I have a lovely A Francotte 375 H&H best bolt action rifle we can do a deal with

Christ I've only had her in my possession for less than a month, and only put 33 rounds through her, I'm not giving up that easily!

 

[norfolk shooter]

I'm just saying chumrade. I think with the 300 grn ammo you'll be away

 

[Ukstalker.375]

It's all to do with how the rifle recoils. It's not the cushioning of the hand so much as the weight of the arm. Likewise with standing versus sitting. The body rolls more from a standing position, affecting how the rifle moves under recoil (in that moment when the bullet is still traversing the bore).

This is all to do with regulating a rifle to shoot as it will be generally used in the field (optimizing the process). In reality, as you know, a rifle may be shot from many positions (and, in Africa, the first shot will pretty much always be off the sticks).

Well this article about the process Westley Richards undergo clearly shows the chap regulating the rifle using a front rest so it can't have too much of an adverse impact?
I appreciate what you're saying about the dynamics of a double being different but I can't see how this particular detail makes any odds?

https://www.theexplora.com/regulating-double-rifle-at-westley-richards/

 

[norfolk shooter]

I know with some rifles I have used the muzzle flip is so much the shots wouldn't group. Hold the thing with nice grip did help

 

[Ukstalker.375]

I know with some rifles I have used the muzzle flip is so much the shots wouldn't group. Hold the thing with nice grip did help

I was always of the understanding that muzzle flip and recoil occurred after the bullet had left the barrel (in real terms where you as the shooter reacts to it I mean), and therefor didn't actually have any tangible effect on accuracy, more the anticipation of said recoil would cause the shooter to flinch....

 

[markferrigno]

I think your best bet is to find someone who can re-regulate it. You will probably spend more in ammo trying to get lucky then having it re-regulated.