Scope or Red dot for double rifle

[Tanks]

...
Yesterday I shot our big bore comp with this set up and scored a full house, first time ever. To my amazement this was a totally different aiming experience, it was as if the dot resided out there somewhere and it almost drew one to the aiming point. The rifle and I were left far behind and the red dot and the black dot on the target were all that was left. It was so easy. Is this just me, or do these things do magic for everyone?
I now can't wait to fit the Kahles to my Heym 89b, but the Docter base from Heym is taking forever to arrive at Heym....

Welcome to my world.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

For those with some experience mounting a red dot to a bolt action rifle, is there a big advantage to mounting it forward of the action on the rib, compared to mounting it on the front pivot mount? I’m considering doing this on my 416 Rigby.

Personally, I wouldn't go with the red dot. I have gone down this road before. They are very quick as far as target acquisition is concerned, and I do have one on my double rifle. However, I had one on my 416 Rigby, but recently took it off and went back to the conventional 1-6x 24 Leupold HD6. The red dot has its place, but can never be as precise as a conventional scope. Something like a 1-6 power will serve you a lot better in hunting situations where the first shot is of utmost importance.

 

[Tanks]

Personally, I wouldn't go with the red dot. I have gone down this road before. They are very quick as far as target acquisition is concerned, and I do have one on my double rifle. However, I had one on my 416 Rigby, but recently took it off and went back to the conventional 1-6x 24 Leupold HD6. The red dot has its place, but can never be as precise as a conventional scope. Something like a 1-6 power will serve you a lot better in hunting situations where the first shot is of utmost importance.

I disagree. Took 3 elephants and an impala (for pot) with the .500 MDM in Africa and a black bear in the USA. One would not be making 100+ yard shots at elephant or cape buffalo (if you do need to make those shots get a better PH) where a scope would be more advisable.

Also, the logic astounds me. If it is good enough for a double then it should be good enough for a bolt gun at DG ranges. Are you saying one does not need a precise first shot with a double?

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

I disagree. Took 3 elephants and an impala (for pot) with the .500 MDM in Africa and a black bear in the USA. One would not be making 100+ yard shots at elephant or cape buffalo (if you do need to make those shots get a better PH) where a scope would be more advisable.

You are looking at it from a different angle. In the hands of a trained individual, I agree with what you are saying, but I need to supply a rifle to clients who needs to rent from me and can pick up and be proficient with it with only a couple of shots down the range. A person does not just pick up a red dot and shoot it well. It requires some degree of getting use to.
Been down this road. Keep it simple. A conventional scope is more precise.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Red dot side loading battery. You will not regret this setup.

 

[Arthur Morta]

The mounting base finally arrived for my newly acquired Trijicon RMR 3.5 MOA and I fitted it to the VC 375 Flanged. I located the sight as far forward as I could and as this mount is little more than a plate that saddles the rib it sits very low, requiring no head lift at all.
Yesterday I shot our big bore comp with this set up and scored a full house, first time ever. To my amazement this was a totally different aiming experience, it was as if the dot resided out there somewhere and it almost drew one to the aiming point. The rifle and I were left far behind and the red dot and the black dot on the target were all that was left. It was so easy. Is this just me, or do these things do magic for everyone?
I now can't wait to fit the Kahles to my Heym 89b, but the Docter base from Heym is taking forever to arrive at Heym.
View attachment 500203

Well done Bwana Kevin. I’ve seen all the scores from yesterdays shoot! Sad I could not make it this time round ;(
As You’ve seen before my Winchester MOD 70-Lott wears one and the ability to shoot with both eyes opened is a great plus. This Red Dot of mine was supposed to go onto the .460, but soon it too will adorn one as well, I’ll even let you try it once the Dot is fitted…

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

One thing you may not have considered. Double rifles can be very finicky. It is much more likely that mounting a scope may require re regulating the rifle. Less likely if you just add the red dot.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Welcome to my world.

Ok, you won!

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

Personally, I wouldn't go with the red dot. I have gone down this road before. They are very quick as far as target acquisition is concerned, and I do have one on my double rifle. However, I had one on my 416 Rigby, but recently took it off and went back to the conventional 1-6x 24 Leupold HD6. The red dot has its place, but can never be as precise as a conventional scope. Something like a 1-6 power will serve you a lot better in hunting situations where the first shot is of utmost importance.

This is true Marius for any kind of distance say over 60-80m i agree

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

For those with some experience mounting a red dot to a bolt action rifle, is there a big advantage to mounting it forward of the action on the rib, compared to mounting it on the front pivot mount? I’m considering doing this on my 416 Rigby.

Hi VBE, with this one we were able to slide the dot sight up and down the rib with me looking through it. It was definitely easier to see the dot more clearly further away.

 

[chashardy]

The mounting base finally arrived for my newly acquired Trijicon RMR 3.5 MOA and I fitted it to the VC 375 Flanged. I located the sight as far forward as I could and as this mount is little more than a plate that saddles the rib it sits very low, requiring no head lift at all.
Yesterday I shot our big bore comp with this set up and scored a full house, first time ever. To my amazement this was a totally different aiming experience, it was as if the dot resided out there somewhere and it almost drew one to the aiming point. The rifle and I were left far behind and the red dot and the black dot on the target were all that was left. It was so easy. Is this just me, or do these things do magic for everyone?
I now can't wait to fit the Kahles to my Heym 89b, but the Docter base from Heym is taking forever to arrive at Heym.
View attachment 500203

I tried iron sights on my Chapuis double. Couldn't hit the paper. Put the Trijicon RMR 3.5 MOA on it and it's a nail driver. The rapid target acquisition is amazing. Made all the difference and I've used it on 4 safaris. Congratulations on your RMR/VC rig. Looks great, too.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I was also wearing my new tinted 'hunting' glasses that I wrote about a few weeks back. Those and the red dot are a new world.

 

[Frederik]

Well done Kevin, the RMR looks great on the double!!!

My longest killing shot to date with my red dot 1 MOA trijicon SRO on my Lott was 180 meters.
Bullet didnt end excatly where I wanted it but the Blue wildebeest was found dead 100 meters further.

With some practise I would say red dot would be limited to 150 meters but also max 2 MOA dot.
The bigger the dot the more it limits you to put it properly in the middle of the vitals at a range.

I had a shot at a young cow buffalo at 120 meters this past weekend that needed to be culled she was standing frontal but had two buffalo on either side of her laying down. I didnt feel confident enough to take the shot scared the bullet might exit if I hit a bit left or right and it another buff.

With a scope cranked up to x 6 power I would have comfortably taken the shot with the red dot I was hesitant so my friend took her out with his 375 H&H and a head shot.
Was she clear and no buffalo next to her the shot would have been under her chin.

Yes the red dots limits you with range but not much more than with a scope as it still comes down to the shooter to place the shot precisly. It also gives you an incentive to stalk and get closer to your game.

But for me it has much more postivies:

Both eyes open.
Quick target acquisition.
Makes people shoot better and faster.
No paralax issues.
Lighter on a rifle or scope.

Get a decent brand and know how to use it then you can't blame battery life or settings.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Do we have an expert in our group on red dot sights and in particular what pattern base fits what sight? I have emailed the various suppliers but they don't respond, or dont get it.
My specific question - what is the pattern on the base of the Kahles sight and does anyone make mounts for it? They supply it with a conversion plate to Docter pattern, but it all adds height.

 

[VertigoBE]

Do we have an expert in our group on red dot sights and in particular what pattern base fits what sight? I have emailed the various suppliers but they don't respond, or dont get it.
My specific question - what is the pattern on the base of the Kahles sight and does anyone make mounts for it? They supply it with a conversion plate to Docter pattern, but it all adds height.

I agree, after having added 3 different style connecting plates , the red dot rises more due to connecting plates and such than anything else.

Would be nice if a custom rifle immediately came with a plate installed for you to screw the red dot straight on. No more adding thickness.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I know that this might sound like sacrilege, but Henneburger makes a nery low profile plate that you attach to your rib with two small countersunk screws and the red dot sight screws directly onto that. It then sits precisely 1mm above the rib and you can mount it all the way forward if you want to. Two small threaded holes is not the end of the world.

 

[Tanks]

Do we have an expert in our group on red dot sights and in particular what pattern base fits what sight? I have emailed the various suppliers but they don't respond, or dont get it.
My specific question - what is the pattern on the base of the Kahles sight and does anyone make mounts for it? They supply it with a conversion plate to Docter pattern, but it all adds height.

Why not use a Dokter plate and a Dokter sight if you do not wish to use Trijicon?

 

[Inline6]

I'm sorry if this question is slightly OT. I've never used a red dot, but have used ghost rings and peeps. Is there a significant advantage to a red dot over a ghost ring maybe like the one NEGC offers?

Best regards,

Yes, it is nothing more than science, the way our eyes work. They are drawn to red, your eyes will pick them up faster.

As far as looks go, I rather have fast clean kills than worry about what someone thinks about the lines of MY rifle. If it works it works, I might be making this to simple. For me it is function before looks.

 

[Woodcarver]

Do we have an expert in our group on red dot sights and in particular what pattern base fits what sight? I have emailed the various suppliers but they don't respond, or dont get it.
My specific question - what is the pattern on the base of the Kahles sight and does anyone make mounts for it? They supply it with a conversion plate to Docter pattern, but it all adds height.

This is a pretty inclusive list of the various footprints of red dots on the market. Makes it easy to find the potential options for mounts from a different maker than the RMR itself.

Footprints/Mounting Standards on Red Dot Sights - Optics Trade Blog

In this article, the most common footprints/mounting standards used on red dot sights are listed. Each standard is described and an image of it is added.

optics-info.com

 

[Rare Breed]

Just bought myself a double rifle in .470NE caliber. Considering installing a scope or red dot sight in addition to the open iron sights. Any recommendations on which to choose?

I am definetly a red dot guy for my 500 NE. Having trouble picking up my front bead. Sent to JJ to put on a better front bead and custom rib ramp for my Trijicon